uk f1 tv coverage - sky, bbc and ch4

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Mike, I find myself watching less F1 races and certainly whole F1 races and I have been following it since the late 70's, yet I do make an effort to watch BTCC races, which probably says something.

Well, F1 lost me as a viewer the moment that BCE announced his deal with Sky, reneging on his long-time promise that F1 races would, certainly during his tenure, remain live on FTA in the UK. So, cutting my nose off to spite my face, I haven't watched for about 4 years now. And reading everybody's comments during that time, I don't seem to have missed much. I struggle to stay awake watching TV at the best of times, so I dread to think how many extra hours of sleep I may have had if I had continued viewing.

But, like you, I haven't missed a BTCC weekend for the last 8 years, and watch it for the whole 6 hours or so. And my sons, grandchildren and I make an annual pilgrimage to see one of the weekends at the circuit. We are tossing up at the moment whether to do Rockingham for the first time, or Donington again. Having done the British GP last year, we all came to the conclusion that, apart from the thoroughly enjoyable time that we had in each others' company, the long weekend was very far from being anywhere near good value for money. And so this year we are going back to long weekends to see an air show, probably Fairford which is really excellent, plus one son and I are going to another local show as well.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

But, like you, I haven't missed a BTCC weekend for the last 8 years, and watch it for the whole 6 hours or so. And my sons, grandchildren and I make an annual pilgrimage to see one of the weekends at the circuit. We are tossing up at the moment whether to do Rockingham for the first time, or Donington again.

I haven't marshalled a BTCC weekend for some time (largely due to clashes, I might this year though) but I watch each and every round either live or after the fact. If I were you I'd go and experience Rockingham - It's like no other UK circuit. It's a bit 'marmite', mind you, people either love it or hate it, but the views from the main grandstand and top of the pit garages are better than any other track we have. In the big stand though you are quite a long way from the action!

Back to F1: I have Virgin cable and for my sins I do pay for the sports channels, initially to get the F1 races live. Last year I watched more live Indy, NASCAR and Supercars than F1, and I even got rid of some of the F1 races I'd recorded without watching them.

Sounds like I'm in the same position as your lads, who coincidentally seem to be roughly my age.

I've no excitement whatsoever for this F1 season. Perhaps that'll change come Melbourne.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Well, F1 lost me as a viewer the moment that BCE announced his deal with Sky, reneging on his long-time promise that F1 races would, certainly during his tenure, remain live on FTA in the UK. So, cutting my nose off to spite my face, I haven't watched for about 4 years now. And reading everybody's comments during that time, I don't seem to have missed much. I struggle to stay awake watching TV at the best of times, so I dread to think how many extra hours of sleep I may have had if I had continued viewing.

But, like you, I haven't missed a BTCC weekend for the last 8 years, and watch it for the whole 6 hours or so. And my sons, grandchildren and I make an annual pilgrimage to see one of the weekends at the circuit. We are tossing up at the moment whether to do Rockingham for the first time, or Donington again. Having done the British GP last year, we all came to the conclusion that, apart from the thoroughly enjoyable time that we had in each others' company, the long weekend was very far from being anywhere near good value for money. And so this year we are going back to long weekends to see an air show, probably Fairford which is really excellent, plus one son and I are going to another local show as well.

So Mike with all due respect to you, your not really a fan of F1 then as you have not watched a race in 4 years, I believe that if people are real fans they will pay to watch the racing.. The BBC was never free to air ever as you pay a yearly license fee, a tax in another words ..

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

So Mike with all due respect to you, your not really a fan of F1 then as you have not watched a race in 4 years, I believe that if people are real fans they will pay to watch the racing.. The BBC was never free to air ever as you pay a yearly license fee, a tax in another words ..

I would have never have described myself as a fan of F1, or anything else for that matter. I was just a "passionate" follower of motorsport in general, went to see F1 races in many countries as well as spectating at many other motorsport events. And I religiously watched F1 on TV from the very early days with Raymond Baxter, I think it was, doing the voice-overs.

As to the argument about the TV licence in the UK, it is really a red herring as you still need to pay it if you just watch subscription only services; it is not a fee (or a tax) to solely watch BBC programmes. So, as far as we are concerned in the UK, all terrestrial TV is considered to be FTA.

But I repeat, the reason that I, along with many other ardent followers of F1 in the UK, stopped watching the races on the TV is because Mr Ecclestone broke his word to us, namely that all F1 races would always continue to be live on what we consider to be FTA in the UK for as long as he was in charge of the TV rights. He went back on his guarantee to the British public, and the figures show that audiences are diminishing, and in the UK it's certainly largely because only half the races can be seen live on FTA.

[BertMk2]

I generally watch F1 on catchup these days (4OD) - I generally find myself doing something else when the races are on (either dull 'home' stuff or actually being at a circuit watching some actual racing). It's good to catch up with the F1, BTCC and whatever else I can record / watch on demand later in the week - usually in the evenings once the Mrs has gone to bed (honestly it is motorsport I'm watching!).

[ASCII Man]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

So Mike with all due respect to you, your not really a fan of F1 then as you have not watched a race in 4 years, I believe that if people are real fans they will pay to watch the racing.. The BBC was never free to air ever as you pay a yearly license fee, a tax in another words ..

F1 is not worth paying through the nose for on a monthly basis, as you have to buy the complete sports package, as well as the F1 product being pretty shite in and of itself. I know this because I forced myself to watch too many snoozefests over the years, including a Baku GP. Also, reading any news about F1 changes is generally nothing but a disappointment and an exercise in futility.

So, could we please not start these juvenile "real fans do this" types of arguments?
With all due respect, of course.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

So Mike with all due respect to you, your not really a fan of F1 then as you have not watched a race in 4 years, I believe that if people are real fans they will pay to watch the racing.. The BBC was never free to air ever as you pay a yearly license fee, a tax in another words ..

I don't think that follows. I believe I'm a true fan. I've followed F1 since 1972 and attended my first race in April 1973. The only time I stopped watching was during the Ferrari/Schumacher years, as it became predictably tedious. I refuse to pay, primarily because I don't like the monopoly Murdoch has had on televised sport.

[JABWOA]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I don't think that follows. I believe I'm a true fan. I've followed F1 since 1972 and attended my first race in April 1973. The only time I stopped watching was during the Ferrari/Schumacher years, as it became predictably tedious. I refuse to pay, primarily because I don't like the monopoly Murdoch has had on televised sport.

I agree. Downunder, to watch every race live, you need paytv and of course you have to bulk buy channels. It's like EUR85 per month for 20 races. No thank you. I "obtain" a copy of the race afterwards for review.

Fan status - 15 years of marshaling the AGP as well as working the 1st Singapore and Korean GP's. 20 years volunteer involvement in other motorsport. Which cost me money to attend (and willingly paid). Just for perspective

However, should FOM/Liberty offer a competitively priced streaming service, I would seriously consider it.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by JABWOA

I agree. Downunder, to watch every race live, you need paytv and of course you have to bulk buy channels. It's like EUR85 per month for 20 races. No thank you. I "obtain" a copy of the race afterwards for review.

In Australia all of the Pay TV sports channels in HD costs about AUD $60 (£37 or €43). This shows all of Sky's F1 coverage. If all the viewer wants is F1 its probably not worth it.

However the sports channels also show every WEC, NASCAR, V8, Formula E and Moto GP races, coverage of the WRC , World Rallycross, DTM and BTCC rounds. They also show all of the AFL and NRL games and some Cricket, NFL, NBL, NBA, MLB games. (These are the ones I remember off the top of my head).

I usually watch all the F1, WEC, V8s, WRC and Nascar races as well as some AFL and Cricket so the $60 a month gives a bit more value.

I imagine the coverage in the UK, Europe and the US would be similar.

[Akrapovic]

So, I'm not a real fan because I won't pay massive amounts of money to watch the sport? Seriously? That's almost insulting really. I've just prioritised other series which are free and cheaper (and now, better). It doesn't mean I'm not a fan. I've been watching hardcore since the 90s (not as long as a lot here, but 2 decades is not something to be ignored), and even watched through the Schumacher years. But I'm simply not paying £40 or so a month for F1. I don't have that kind of money, and if F1 doesn't want me or others like me, then that isn't a reflection on me, that's a reflection on them.

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

So, I'm not a real fan because I won't pay massive amounts of money to watch the sport? Seriously? That's almost insulting really. I've just prioritised other series which are free and cheaper (and now, better). It doesn't mean I'm not a fan. I've been watching hardcore since the 90s (not as long as a lot here, but 2 decades is not something to be ignored), and even watched through the Schumacher years. But I'm simply not paying £40 or so a month for F1. I don't have that kind of money, and if F1 doesn't want me or others like me, then that isn't a reflection on me, that's a reflection on them.

Well said. Not all F1 fans have the means to access F1. And as you said it Akrapovic, that's F1's loss. Shame because there's a lot of big time F1 fans out there who just cannot afford the subscription costs.

I think some members here just like to rub it in the noses of the folks who ARE big fans of F1, but just don't have the means to access it via SkyF1 etc. They brag about how they, their sons, daughters, grandma and neighbours all have pay TV and access to F1. But they don't watch F1, and haven't done so for 4 years, or they have no interest in F1 etcetera. But still feel the need to comment on the current racing and all things F1??

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Well said. Not all F1 fans have the means to access F1. And as you said it Akrapovic, that's F1's loss. Shame because there's a lot of big time F1 fans out there who just cannot afford the subscription costs.

I think some members here just like to rub it in the noses of the folks who ARE big fans of F1, but just don't have the means to access it via SkyF1 etc. They brag about how they, their sons, daughters, grandma and neighbours all have pay TV and access to F1. But they don't watch F1, and haven't done so for 4 years, or they have no interest in F1 etcetera. But still feel the need to comment on the current racing and all things F1??

Might I politely request that you debate the posts not the posters!

[Greem]

I think you'll find I said I've no *excitement* for F1, rather than interest.

I'm still interested, clearly, but I think the total immersive experience of F1 news coming at me from every single angle every minute of the day dulls the experience rather than sharpens it or makes me hungrier for it.

Once upon a time places like this were where all the debate happened, and there weren't that many of them. Now it's everywhere.

[JeremySmith]

I agree in the sense that there are too many sites that re-hash the same news or dare I say it, print fake news, with very little to back up with ..

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

F1 is not worth paying through the nose for on a monthly basis, as you have to buy the complete sports package, as well as the F1 product being pretty shite in and of itself. I know this because I forced myself to watch too many snoozefests over the years, including a Baku GP. Also, reading any news about F1 changes is generally nothing but a disappointment and an exercise in futility.

So, could we please not start these juvenile "real fans do this" types of arguments?
With all due respect, of course.

It's not my intention to offend anyone or try to put anyone down.. Reading many of the posts here the Sky tv package required to watch F1 is just way to expensive...

As far as Rupert Murdoch is concerned, if it's not his empire you are are contributing to it will be another like him, If I were to choose to blame a large part of the problem it would squarely land at the feet of Bernie Echolstone..

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by dsg

I imagine the coverage in the UK, Europe and the US would be similar.

is similar in Canada but it is also changing here...gradually the TV companies are being forced to unravel their 'bundle' options and allow people to pick and chose what channels they want individually but it remains which system will prevail.

Originally Posted by JABWOA

However, should FOM/Liberty offer a competitively priced streaming service, I would seriously consider it.

this would be my preferred solution as well.

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

As far as Rupert Murdoch is concerned, if it's not his empire you are are contributing to it will be another like him, If I were to choose to blame a large part of the problem it would squarely land at the feet of Bernie Echolstone..

agreed, one provider is pretty much as bad as the next one.

but its hardly F1's/BE's fault that cable companies like SKY (or whomever is the main provider in your home country is) 'bundle' their channel line ups and its particularly onerous for sports fans, who are primarily the one group of customers willing to pay a premium for live sports coverage and thus are the ones being forced to buy a bunch of useless channels in order to have the right to buy the sports packages.

really this is a global competition issue stemming form telecoms, ISPs, and cable companies merging to consolidate distribution and then moving on to buying up the content as well effectively creating a monopoly. the customers will get screwed one way or another unless this changes...but as much as everyone hates BE, he is not responsible for this trend which is worldwide and effects all sports leagues.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

It's not my intention to offend anyone or try to put anyone down.. Reading many of the posts here the Sky tv package required to watch F1 is just way to expensive...

As far as Rupert Murdoch is concerned, if it's not his empire you are are contributing to it will be another like him, If I were to choose to blame a large part of the problem it would squarely land at the feet of Bernie Echolstone..

I agree, a large part of the problem does land at the feet of Mr. Ecclestone and that's because he's been loathe to embrace the internet/social media, largely through a fear of losing control and revenue and has therefore gone down the pay to view route, in collaboration with Sky etc.

He could have setup up a subscription based service, similar the NFL's Game Pass and still maintained control: F1 Pit Pass. NFL Game Pass costs $90 for the entire regular season and as of last season included the play offs.

[JeremySmith]

He gave NBC the rights here in the states for $3 Million, peanuts, if he had been really smart he would have given them the rights for free with the understanding that they would promote the sport ..
All that glitters is not gold Bernie, remember that Rolex you wear wearing in Knightsbridge?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

He could have setup up a subscription based service, similar the NFL's Game Pass and still maintained control: F1 Pit Pass. NFL Game Pass costs $90 for the entire regular season and as of last season included the play offs.

NFL Game Pass in N.America is just a replay service (no live games) where as the NFL Sunday Ticket package is much more expensive (US$250-400 depending on which version you buy) and i believe in most markets you are still required to be a subscriber to a cable provider in order to buy it (so the price is on top of your existing cable package).

International Game Pass does have live games but given the time zone differences you would still be watching games well into late sunday night to take advantage of the live feature...which is what you may be talking about.

anyways these are just different versions of paywall sports services...sure more choice, more mediums, and better/more competitive pricing (which i am all in favour of) but its still payTV.

so basically you are blaming BE for paytv while also blaming him for not doing paytv sooner?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

NFL Game Pass in N.America is just a replay service (no live games) where as the NFL Sunday Ticket package is much more expensive (US$250-400 depending on which version you buy) and i believe in most markets you are still required to be a subscriber to a cable provider in order to buy it (so the price is on top of your existing cable package).

International Game Pass does have live games but given the time zone differences you would still be watching games well into late sunday night to take advantage of the live feature...which is what you may be talking about.

anyways these are just different versions of paywall sports services...sure more choice, more mediums, and better/more competitive pricing (which i am all in favour of) but its still payTV.

so basically you are blaming BE for paytv while also blaming him for not doing paytv sooner?

NFL Game Pass shows live games. It does over here. Indeed I have watched games late into the night but I don't mind that. Chanel 4 used to show the Monday night game live and it was very popular.

No I'm not blaming BE for paytv while also blaming him for not doing paytv sooner? I'm saying if he wanted to go down that route he could have gone for a format like NFL Game Pass, that is cheaper than Sky and still gives him total control over the broadcast.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

How short a memory some of appear to have, Bernie launched a pay TV service back in way back in 1996...F1 Digital anyone?

Now at the time what they were doing was cutting edge, but what we get today in the form of Sky's Race control can trace it's roots back to what Bernie did back then.

It's arguable that the tech within the available sat boxes wasn't quite mature enough, as only the Main channel and not the Multiscreens were recordable, and If I remember correctly it was massively over priced at over £10 per race.

Nowadays of course the technology horse has bolted as apps for Phones and tablets can offer multiple HD streams to view. The fact that these feeds were sold alongside the main World feed as part of the package available to broadcasters was perhaps short sighted, it currently allows Sky to offer it's race control multiscreen through the red button and it's Sky Sports App. Yes you have to be a Sky sports subscriber, they bought the rights.

I think Liberty will have real difficulty in turning around and saying OK, next set of TV rights, we will provide you the broadcaster with all available feeds to use in your programme, but your not allowed to make them available on-line as we will be launching our own Broadcast App globally.

Likewise the suggestion of FOM producing an NFL network type channel, NFL Network has up to 16 games a week with over 2 hours of coverage produced by the Main networks each, plus access to the daily training of effectively 3 separate teams within the team (offence, defence and Special Teams) ... that lots of players to interview etc to build a full weeks worth of programmes around. Sure some of it may get repeated over the week but the channel is full.

F1 is on track for 3 hours on a Friday, 2 hours on a Saturday and less than 2 hours on a Sunday every other weekend. 7 hours of track time of which some of that isn't even used in FP1 and FP2.
Other than that and a couple of press conferences, the garage doors are down and the drivers are off glad-handing sponsors or hiding in their motor homes. Sky can barely fill their own channel out of those meagre offerings and a whole host of repeats made away from the track.

What do people expect an FOM channel to provide differently, they can't magic extra exclusive hours of cars on track? Perhaps "The Monday Race Re-run: watch the whole race from Alonso's rearward facing camera."
As for daily content, I can't imagine the constructors or power unit providers having a FOM camera team based at their factory 7 days a week looking for updates and team news for daily shows.

[chillibowl]

i would expect them to provide a service similar to what motogp offers.

add in streams for F4, F3, and GP2 (now F2), (and i suppose even Formula E), unique content, behind the scenes stuff, and historical archives etc.

admittedly though it will take them time to produce their own commentary tracks and feature productions that the current sports broadcasters already offer....but Liberty is a media company and they already have a lot of experience doing this. Sean Bratches (one of the guys in charge now) has a tremendous amount of experience in this from building up ESPN over the past 20odd years.

but then again, im ok with paying $10-20 a month if it means i get to effectively create my own 'bundle' of media content...mainly because i have already started down the route of cord cutting and a la carte purchasing.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

How short a memory some of appear to have, Bernie launched a pay TV service back in way back in 1996...F1 Digital anyone?

Now at the time what they were doing was cutting edge, but what we get today in the form of Sky's Race control can trace it's roots back to what Bernie did back then.

It's arguable that the tech within the available sat boxes wasn't quite mature enough, as only the Main channel and not the Multiscreens were recordable, and If I remember correctly it was massively over priced at over £10 per race.

Nowadays of course the technology horse has bolted as apps for Phones and tablets can offer multiple HD streams to view. The fact that these feeds were sold alongside the main World feed as part of the package available to broadcasters was perhaps short sighted, it currently allows Sky to offer it's race control multiscreen through the red button and it's Sky Sports App. Yes you have to be a Sky sports subscriber, they bought the rights.

I think Liberty will have real difficulty in turning around and saying OK, next set of TV rights, we will provide you the broadcaster with all available feeds to use in your programme, but your not allowed to make them available on-line as we will be launching our own Broadcast App globally.

Likewise the suggestion of FOM producing an NFL network type channel, NFL Network has up to 16 games a week with over 2 hours of coverage produced by the Main networks each, plus access to the daily training of effectively 3 separate teams within the team (offence, defence and Special Teams) ... that lots of players to interview etc to build a full weeks worth of programmes around. Sure some of it may get repeated over the week but the channel is full.

F1 is on track for 3 hours on a Friday, 2 hours on a Saturday and less than 2 hours on a Sunday every other weekend. 7 hours of track time of which some of that isn't even used in FP1 and FP2.
Other than that and a couple of press conferences, the garage doors are down and the drivers are off glad-handing sponsors or hiding in their motor homes. Sky can barely fill their own channel out of those meagre offerings and a whole host of repeats made away from the track.

What do people expect an FOM channel to provide differently, they can't magic extra exclusive hours of cars on track? Perhaps "The Monday Race Re-run: watch the whole race from Alonso's rearward facing camera."
As for daily content, I can't imagine the constructors or power unit providers having a FOM camera team based at their factory 7 days a week looking for updates and team news for daily shows.

I don't remember F1 Digital at all, so I did some research and found it launched with the 1996 German Grand Prix. It was initially broadcast by the German-based DF1 to Austria, Germany and Switzerland. French broadcaster Canal Plus also signed up in 1996. It was launched in the UK in 2002 as a dedicated channel on Sky and was a joint venture between BSkyB and FOM and originally contracted for two years.

FOM producing an NFL network type channel, doesn't have to follow the NFL Network's format, it could be done on a purely race by race basis, with some background content, just like the BBC did and Channel 4 do now. There's no need to magic extra hours.

[Sodemo]

It will eventually all go to pay-per-view like the boxing has. £20 per race etc.

[Mystery]

F1 Digital+ was an excellent product for its time, but hopelessly overpriced at £10+ per race with no season ticket discounts, until two thirds of the season had been completed. It predictably flopped as the economics for the customer were all wrong.