IMSA Race 2017 Long Beach GP

[Articus]

Top 5 in GTLM (5 different manufactureres) separated by 2 tenths. Can you even make that up? That is ridiculous.

[TF110]

Cadillac 1-2 in qualifying again. These cars are just insanely quick compared to the others. It seems everything they do to slow them is just shrugged off 1:13's and they had time in hand. That's after everything done to slow them. They'd be at least a second faster if they were left as is. At least the Mazda is 3rd, and it's only a 100 minute race so they might last the distance. The other cars need to step it up.

[chernaudi]

Well, it must be noted that in spite of years of development, the DPIs don't seem to be any faster around most of the ALMS tracks than the decade in a half old Audi R8. And the Audi would be faster if run on modern tires.

I know, different cars, different generations, but you'd hope that with 600bhp and modern aero that DPIs would be a bit faster than now ancient LMP900s. Especially since Dunlop and Michelin shod LMP2s are nearly as fast as late air restricted LMP1s.

[Nick Woodbury]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Well, it must be noted that in spite of years of development, the DPIs don't seem to be any faster around most of the ALMS tracks than the decade in a half old Audi R8. And the Audi would be faster if run on modern tires.

I know, different cars, different generations, but you'd hope that with 600bhp and modern aero that DPIs would be a bit faster than now ancient LMP900s. Especially since Dunlop and Michelin shod LMP2s are nearly as fast as late air restricted LMP1s.

What? DPi's are LMP2's. LMP2's are not LMP1's/900s. Plus, even the Continental tires of our modern and glorious age of 2017 still likely do not compare to the quality of rubber the LMP900s were probably running on back then.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

Will be interesting to see how the PWC GT3 cars compare to GTLM and GTD qualifying times.

After PWC practice and gtd qualy, the gap is about 0.3 seconds.
And gtlm is 3 seconds clear of pwc, and Protos are 3 seconds clear of that

[chernaudi]

Thanks for pointing that out, and in doing so, you missed my point. When did LMP2s or DPs ever have 600bhp until this year, the same power LMP900s had?

Dunlop tired LMP2s were capable of nearly matching the front row setting times that Audi ran at Sebring in 2012.

My point, in case you missed it, was that we've had 15+ years of development, but junk tires and BOP are arbitrarily slowing the DPIs down. Especially for cars that have modern aero and more engine power than ever, even more power than LMP900s had post 2002.

Granted, you don't exactly need fast cars to have a race, but even in LMP1, there's arbitrary rules in place pretty much solely directed at keeping the cars to certain speed and lap-time ranges.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Well that qualifying was exciting,I can't help but think of multiple cautions tomorrow,I hope everyone got all the wrecks out of their system.this race will be different than the past years and more like an alms race with all the gtd traffic will make it intresting for P and GTLM,might,maybe,hopefully allow Mazda and Nissan to keep up with Cadillacs.man I wish I could of been there.

[chernaudi]

Again another reason I think the DPI's should be a bit faster. They were only about 3 seconds a lap faster than GTLM.

[schmidder]

Originally Posted by otisdog

Just got back from the track and I have to say I was amazed by the Can-am cars, even though I used to watch them regularly...they make the current cars sound quite feeble!
The amount of can-am cars on track was impressive, too.
Was having lunch at the Irish pub on the west end of the track when a off-road truck went flying by about 10' in the air...didn't quite expect that...

Jealous..and nice to see u back in the Internet world..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[carbsmith]

They certainly look slow. Considering the lap times they're doing with the amount of power and drag they have they really aren't quick in the corners at all.

Heck why not go look at the timing data for the class pole sitters
http://results.imsa.com/Results/17_2...ack%20Maps.pdf

S04:
#3: 3.994
#10: 3.911
#48: 4.186

Wow those amazing prototype brakes and cornering speeds.

S05:
#3: 10.824
#10: 10.477
#48: 11.178

So at this point the DPi has made more time on the GTE from start finish to the pit exit than the rest of the first sector combined.

In short the #10 is up 3.4s on the #3 over the lap and 1.6s of that comes from the front straight alone, with another 0.8s from the first 2/3 of the backstretch. Despite being 190kg lighter with carbon brakes the prototype is making all of its time on the straights because it has an extra 100hp, that's pretty sad. Like why are they even there?

[chernaudi]

Compare the ACO spec LMP2 times vs DP times at Sebring. This def. proves that the Continental tires are pretty much junk in terms of grip, which is something we all know and probably isn't worth rehashing on this forum.

Give the DPIs Michelins or Dunlops, and the laptimes will tumble. On the Contis as they are, they're still no faster than LMP900s of 15+ years ago.

Even on a street track, 3.5 seconds seems to be a small margin over GT cars.

[Matt]

LBC is a mechanical grip track, not an aero grip track. P cars are generally a bit clumsy in slow corners without the aero grip. Which is pretty much every corner on the track.

[TF110]

And brick tires exasperate that problem. At least they're nice looking and sounding. The tires could be better but it's a step better than the dp's imo. Looking forward to a great race!

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Matt

LBC is a mechanical grip track, not an aero grip track. P cars are generally a bit clumsy in slow corners without the aero grip. Which is pretty much every corner on the track.

GTD was nipping at their heels, and even running the same times in practice 1...

Mechanical grip is where it's at, none of this is shocking. Amazing how many people dont get it.

[otisdog]

Originally Posted by TF110

At least they're nice looking and sounding.

Only if you didn't hear (and feel!) the Can-Am cars earlier in the day.

[MaskedRacer]

I would love to see a full course yellow come out in this one scenario today: For one to occur at about 20-25 minutes into the race. Long enough for the DPI cars to need their first stop, but the GTLM and GTD's won't need to make their one and only stop. Plus it is not enough time for the DPI's to lap the GTLM class leader. That way the DPI's could end up stuck behind all of the GT cars when the green goes back out with the GTLM cars leading overall. I imagine it would take many laps for the DPI's to get out front again. Maybe over 10 minutes perhaps.

[chernaudi]

Yes, street tracks are mostly about mechanical grip. IMO, it's not great to hear, let alone get confirmation, that the DPIs don't have the grip that GT cars do, mostly because of cheap spec rubber. Even the Michelin LMPC tires are better because they might not have offered much more grip, they were at least more durable.

Or if they want mechanical grip, run the 2011-13 LMP1 spec Michelins, that were insanely wide on top of being better formulated and built. When you consider that Audi were running wheels/rims back then that were wider up front than the rear (14.75x18 front, 14.5x18 rear), that's a ton of grip right there without relying on aero.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Doesn't matter what rubber you run,if the car can't provide mechanical or aero grip then the tire is pretty much useless no matter the name on the side wall.gtd's are running the same old conti tire and they are not having the issues the dpi's are.the fountain turn complex and turn 10 on through the hair pin are slow corners.slow an aero dependent car and it loses down force and grip.they are practically crawling through there one of the Taylor's even said they are at idle going through the hair pin.not much you can do,even gtLM is having issues losing grip through the bumps.

[joeb]

I'm not sure why this is a discussion honestly. If you want to look back, the P1 cars were only 4 seconds faster than the GT cars at the alms Baltimore race. And in 2011 the P1 cars were only 5 seconds clear of gt at Long Beach but the GT cars were much slower back then.

The 2010 P1 pole at LB was a 1:13.2 while DPi was a 1:13.5 yesterday.

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Well, it must be noted that in spite of years of development, the DPIs don't seem to be any faster around most of the ALMS tracks than the decade in a half old Audi R8. And the Audi would be faster if run on modern tires.

I know, different cars, different generations, but you'd hope that with 600bhp and modern aero that DPIs would be a bit faster than now ancient LMP900s. Especially since Dunlop and Michelin shod LMP2s are nearly as fast as late air restricted LMP1s.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by joeb

I'm not sure why this is a discussion honestly. If you want to look back, the P1 cars were only 4 seconds faster than the GT cars at the alms Baltimore race. And in 2011 the P1 cars were only 5 seconds clear of gt at Long Beach but the GT cars were much slower back then.

The 2010 P1 pole at LB was a 1:13.2 while DPi was a 1:13.5 yesterday.

Dude you just broke up a perfectly entertaining slap-fight.

[RWill2073]

I'm encouraged by the BMW pace and the little bit of mixture in DPi. Also heard Hindy say the JDC yellow P2 looked like a throwback, which is something I've been thinking all year too. It looks both modern and like a historic car.

Are there links that will work to watch live today?

[stuart thompson]

What's the uk start time please?

[Akrapovic]

I think 9pm UK.

[RWill2073]

Whatever 38 minutes from now is. (Don't take this as snarky, I don't know the UK time, just that it starts at the top of the hour.)