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Old 28 Apr 2013, 04:19 (Ref:3240125)   #16
FordCosworthPanoz
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Originally Posted by Adam43 View Post
I don't understand why people get so hung up about this stuff. Is it really necessary to justify your choices so much? Or to put down other people's choices?

I like both, although I go to Le Mans every year and not GP. However if I did have an observation it is that the chip on a sportscar fan's shoulder tends to be more obvious than the snobbiness of the F1 fan.
^

This
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Old 28 Apr 2013, 12:09 (Ref:3240216)   #17
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Formula 1 has lost nearly 1/6th of their global viewing audience since 2008 despite being heavily inflated by a joke formula.

Out of Europe Markets that have traditionally been strong for the series such as Canada and Japan are seeing record low viewing figures and attendances.

Television audiences in key markets that have traditionally been weak such as China, Russia, and U.S. starting this year have fallen by large percentiles.

3 Confirmed manufacturers, typical rumours from F1 media and sound bites from manufacturers like Honda but nothing yet even close to being confirmed.

Rising ticket prices

Team financial instability (Marussia looks to be the latest having problems)

Sponsorship for teams at nearly record lows in the past 20 years

Moving to Pay TV across Europe.
True, and seriously... 6 cylinder F1 cars are so pathetic IMO, that it mimics Indycar, minus the spec aero parts. But I imagine that what if NASCAR suddenly ditches their V8s for turbo V6 engines.

As for the future of motorsport at large, I have a gut feeling that in 100 years, all of forms of motorsport would merge into a giant racing series, let's say it would become the next Can-Am, running in Le Mans, Monaco, or Daytona in the future.

For now, I'm worried about Audi's (or the VW group thanks to Porsche) dominance in Le Mans. Without any competition, I think the 24 Hours would be a boring parade for the group.
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Old 28 Apr 2013, 13:09 (Ref:3240227)   #18
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IMHO the greatest advantage for F1 is the format. A race 1h30m long is easier to follow for the largest part of the people. So, this makes F1 more commercial than Endurance races. People who follows F1 don't understand Endurance races, because are longer, with cars of different classes, two or more driver each car, different strategies, and longer pito stops. This makes harder to understand this kind of races, and people who doesn't like this kind of format find it boring.
In shorter races like F1 ones, it's easier to understand strategies, there's only one drivers each car, there's a glamour atmosphere, and there's less mind commitment to understand what's happening, and how race will evolve.
Formula 1 format is more commercial, easy, is just like the take-away food in a fast food.
Endurance is just another story, and I'm proud to be from this side of the wall!
Formula 1 is the pinnacle of motorsport only for its followers, but it's undoubtable you find more variety of engines, fuels, specs and classes on the starting grid of Endurance races, instead of F1 ones. Formula 1 is only the most expensive single-brand championship. Cars have all the same engine displacement, number of cylinders, aerodynamic shape (measures are all defined by the rules), use all the same fuel...
Le Mans is quite different; and is clearly more spectacular.
In the last years, the gap between the winners and the opponents is closer and closer, and races are coming faster and faster.
From the performance point of view, P1s are very very close to F1 singleseaters, and the gap is basically for the air-restrictors and the higher weight. Removing air-restrictors, and allowing to manufacturers save more weight, we may have P1 as fast as F1 cars.
Then, I've seen more passionate challenges in Le Mans 24 hours (in all classes) than in the entire Formula 1 season.
At the end, between lovers of F1 and Endurance races, the difference is the same we find between the lovers of the american action movies, and the lovers of the author's movie.
Personally no way to win for action movies. I prefer author's ones.
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Old 28 Apr 2013, 13:16 (Ref:3240228)   #19
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Can I change my comment to the snobbiness of sportscar fans is more obvious too!
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Old 28 Apr 2013, 14:54 (Ref:3240245)   #20
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It took less than two pages for the general sports car thread to focus on F1!

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Old 28 Apr 2013, 15:11 (Ref:3240250)   #21
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Is it just me or has it been very quite about privateer LMP1 teams for the coming seasons and new regs? Has Pickett or Dyson shown any intrest in joining the WEC ranks? Will HPD build a customer car? Dome? Kodewa?

I'm of course looking forward to seeing the manufacturer teams but I have a weak spot for privateers.
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Old 28 Apr 2013, 15:35 (Ref:3240252)   #22
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Is it just me or has it been very quite about privateer LMP1 teams for the coming seasons and new regs? Has Pickett or Dyson shown any intrest in joining the WEC ranks? Will HPD build a customer car? Dome? Kodewa?

I'm of course looking forward to seeing the manufacturer teams but I have a weak spot for privateers.
Exactly, and I hope the regs will help them get an edge on the factory teams.

Still, I wonder if there is some changes on the LMP2 side when it reaches 2016. I hope it's not an all-coupe class like LMP1. (And DPs)
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Old 28 Apr 2013, 17:58 (Ref:3240277)   #23
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It took less than two pages for the general sports car thread to focus on F1!

Richard
Exactly!

My two cents: we know that Lotus, which always seems to be on the brink of an utter financial catastrophe, OAK, strong as an oak tree, and Porsche are all coming to LMP1 in the very near future. Now what would the fans of the sport of ENDURANCE RACING, not Formula One, want to see: a Mercedes SLS AMG GTE or a Mercedes LMP1? A Nissan GT-R GTE or a Nissan LMP1? A BMW Z4 GTE or a BMW LMP1? A Jaguar F-TYPE GTE or a Jaguar LMP1?

I'd rather see a completely balanced field rather than one completely outdoing the other. Don't get me wrong, I love GTE. But that's why we have the Blancpain Endurance Series, ADAC GT Masters, DTM, Super GT, FIA GT, VLN, British GT, Pirelli World Challenge, V8 Supercars, etc, etc, etc.



Also, I heard rumors a while ago about a future Jaguar GTE factory program with Williams F1 support. Is that going to take off? I haven't heard anything about it since. :/
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Old 28 Apr 2013, 18:10 (Ref:3240282)   #24
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Also, I heard rumors a while ago about a future Jaguar GTE factory program with Williams F1 support. Is that going to take off? I haven't heard anything about it since. :/
I've heard rumors about a Jaguar LMP1 program, one year and half ago. But nothing for sure. It was an interview with Tata owner, who was seduced by the idea to back Jaguar in Le Mans with an LMP1. If my memory works well, he was speaking about 2016. :/
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Old 28 Apr 2013, 18:15 (Ref:3240283)   #25
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Looking at current quotes if Jag come back it will be with a production-based car.

A new regs GT entry with the F-Type makes the most sense I think. A lot of prospective entries and manufacturers are probably quiet about programmes as the various regs haven't been fully decided in a lot of cases.
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Old 28 Apr 2013, 19:37 (Ref:3240295)   #26
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I do agree that LMP can only take a limited number pf factory teams, but GT racing can take a whole lot more and for all of those Le Mans must be the ultimate prize, GT racing has never been more popular and compared to the cost of F1 or LMP it is often a profitable side line and it also sells more cars to the public.
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Old 28 Apr 2013, 20:10 (Ref:3240302)   #27
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Except for in GTE!
True, in terms of P1, however I think in such a high-costing class such as LMP1 it is good to have a stable flow of manufacturers rather than a bulk of factory teams like in 1999.

When there are too many factory teams involved in a series, there can only be one winner a season, so manufacturers lose interest and question why they spend so much money to be the 4th or 5th factory team. Examples of this mass manufacturer fallout are Le Mans 2000, BTCC 2000, F1 2009/2010.

IMO the perfect manufacturer number in P1 at least is 3.
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Old 28 Apr 2013, 20:44 (Ref:3240313)   #28
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It's an interesting discussion that's been had before - would you like to see more P1 manufacturers despite knowing it will fall apart.

Or do you keep it ticking along with 2/3 teams.

I'd say yes to the bigger numbers every time. Even if/when it falls apart you're still basically going to end up where you were anyway. Why not try and go for another '98/'99 style dreamland if you could. People who complain about the potential of there being too many manufacturer P1 cars make me smile.
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Old 28 Apr 2013, 21:51 (Ref:3240337)   #29
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It's an interesting discussion that's been had before - would you like to see more P1 manufacturers despite knowing it will fall apart.

Or do you keep it ticking along with 2/3 teams.

I'd say yes to the bigger numbers every time. Even if/when it falls apart you're still basically going to end up where you were anyway. Why not try and go for another '98/'99 style dreamland if you could. People who complain about the potential of there being too many manufacturer P1 cars make me smile.
I generally think its worth it as the manufacturer competition always seems to intensify the battle. However the privateers should never be forgotten.
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Old 28 Apr 2013, 22:11 (Ref:3240339)   #30
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Anyone who thinks a class of motorsport can survive in the long term with out privateers is clueless to the history of the sport and world economic situations impact on it.

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