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Old 5 Jun 2016, 05:58 (Ref:3647297)   #26
Yannick
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Happy for bourdais. Was a pretty good race. Wish the broadcast had followed along a little better. Didn't hear about pagenaud dropping back until 15 minutes after the race was over. Side by side is nice, but having it to to commercial every 4 laps is insufferable. Rivals the worst of imsa broadcasts. Just brutal broadcasts on abc.
ABC will be remembered forever as the TV station that ruined the James Bond movie "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" on its US-American TV debut by cutting it up into a series of flashbacks which they put back together out of sequence, held together only by the text of a narrator which was added after the fact. Thus, the original dramaturgy was completely messed up, "remixed" if you will, botching all the storylines in the process. And the unsuspecting, ABC-watching public famously blamed it all on debuting actor George Lazenby. Out of curiosity, I watched parts of this chopped-up version some years back when it appeared on youtube, and it was truly dreadful.

ABC appear to have gotten away with this stuff kind of like forever. I don't understand why (must be in their contracts) and I don't understand how ABC believes they can benefit from spoiling the party for everyone involved. Is it to scare other TV stations away from taking over the IndyCar coverage because races look bad on ABC TV? Is it to scare the TV viewers away so the overall ABC ratings don't get too high which helps ABC in getting a cheaper rate in contract negotiations with IndyCar? All I can say they definitely perform this practise on the back of their viewers and only if they don't watch, the sponsors will notice. Yet, on the other hand, the sponsors cannot complain because they are shown often, hence the nickname "Always Bad Coverage".
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 11:24 (Ref:3647354)   #27
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The commentators are like a couple of lads rambling on a couch with no more information than anyone else has. They are inadequately represented in the pits too. Since losing NASCAR, they seems they want to keep their reputation as a motorsports broadcaster whilst spending nothing on it.
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 12:07 (Ref:3647364)   #28
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The commentators are like a couple of lads rambling on a couch with no more information than anyone else has. They are inadequately represented in the pits too. Since losing NASCAR, they seems they want to keep their reputation as a motorsports broadcaster whilst spending nothing on it.
Agree with this and everything else said on this topic. I am flummoxed as to how I could watch an entire race, paying attention to everything and even rewinding over parts at times, and still have very little idea how many of the drivers ended up where they did. Pagenaud's one good example. Several really important passes and/or accidents happened during commercial breaks, which is I suppose unavoidable, but it seemed to me that these were inadequately covered in commentary review too.

Power being unable to return to the race seems a bit silly, given that drivers are allowed to spin their cars around when stuck in a corner. How this is different from exiting a run-off lane in the wrong direction and rejoining the race, I really don't know.

Congratulations to Sebastien Bourdais on a convincing-looking win. I really liked seeing how excited his dad was, like he was in Toronto in 2014. And I thought Conor Daly's comments after the race were very mature - "I'm still a rookie at this and have lots to learn" or words to that effect. He was obviously very pleased at the result. Montoya must be happy that his championship rivals all finished behind him, too.

Overall, an entertaining race, let down as noted above by some pretty shoddy coverage and commentary.
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 12:14 (Ref:3647365)   #29
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Maybe the most frustrating part of the coverage was that late in the race, after the last pitstops, Graham rahal was I think in sixth with the running order being bourdais, daly, montoya, pagenaud, castroneves then Graham (i may have the penskes out of order). After a series of breaks, with no replays and no mention of it, I look at the running order and rahal is up to fourth. Seems a car moving up two spots and challenging for a podium in the last ten or so laps would noteworthy.
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 13:18 (Ref:3647380)   #30
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Maybe the most frustrating part of the coverage was that late in the race, after the last pitstops, Graham rahal was I think in sixth with the running order being bourdais, daly, montoya, pagenaud, castroneves then Graham (i may have the penskes out of order). After a series of breaks, with no replays and no mention of it, I look at the running order and rahal is up to fourth. Seems a car moving up two spots and challenging for a podium in the last ten or so laps would noteworthy.
I watched the coverage on British BT Sport which goes on and has its own commentary during the ad breaks on the US coverage so I could at least figure out what was going on. And to be honest I think I would've switched off towards the end on the US coverage, it seemed like there were more ad breaks than race laps...
Anyways, Pagenaud and Castroneves seemed to be short on fuel and were backing off. Once Montoya got past them he gapped them by about 2 or 3 seconds per lap and Bourdais also pulled away quickly after his splash and dash so I doubt tyres were the issue on the Penske cars.
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 13:27 (Ref:3647382)   #31
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As a Brit I'd say that the US tv coverage and commentary team are the single biggest thing holding the series back. But maybe I'm just not used to the US style of doing things. It just seems like they very rarely talk about the race, spend more time on advert breaks than not, have lots of dead air and spend half the time that isn't dead air plugging other tv shows.

I've stopped watching Indycar live so that I could skip through the rubbish. BT have made an effort to fix this recently by having someone that was at least watching the telly in London talk about it while the USA are on one of their many many commercial breaks. It's not ideal but it's better than it was.
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 14:28 (Ref:3647400)   #32
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By the way, what did happen to pagenaud at the end?
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 14:31 (Ref:3647403)   #33
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Fortunately, BTSport show the entire ABC feed without commercial breaks and where the commercial breaks would be, they cut back to the BTSport commentary, that gives a recap. As for ABC's commentary team, I don't know why they bother? They could be droning on about anything other than the race.
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 15:09 (Ref:3647411)   #34
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Result Race1:

Things look like they are improving for Honda, with 5 cars in the top 10.

1 Sebastien Bourdais, KVSH Racing. Dallara/Chevrolet. 1h40m51.6838s
2 Conor Daly, Dale Coyne Racing. Dallara/Honda. 2.0401s
3 Juan Pablo Montoya, Team Penske. Dallara/Chevrolet. 5.7067s
4 Graham Rahal, Rahal Letterman Lanigan. Dallara/Honda. 7.4793s
5 Helio Castroneves, Team Penske. Dallara/Chevrolet. 40.0139s
6 Carlos Munoz, Andretti Autosport. Dallara/Honda. 40.7592s
7 Ryan Hunter-Reay, Andretti Autosport. Dallara/Honda. 42.2990s
8 Charlie Kimball, Chip Ganassi Racing. Dallara/Chevrolet. 44.4699s
9 Tony Kanaan, Chip Ganassi Racing. Dallara/Chevrolet. 45.5832s
10 Alexander Rossi, Andretti Herta. Dallara/Honda. 48.2961s
11 Takuma Sato, AJ Foyt Enterprises. Dallara/Honda. 51.1067s
12 Gabby Chaves, Dale Coyne Racing. Dallara/Honda. 51.3256s
13 Simon Pagenaud, Team Penske. Dallara/Chevrolet. 52.5313s
14 Josef Newgarden, Ed Carpenter Racing. Dallara/Chevrolet. 1m06.2350s
15 Mikhail Aleshin, Schmidt Peterson Motorsports. Dallara/Honda. 1m14.1421s
16 Marco Andretti, Andretti Autosport. Dallara/Honda. 1 Lap
17 Spencer Pigot, Ed Carpenter Racing. Dallara/Chevrolet. 1 Lap
18 James Hinchcliffe, Schmidt Peterson Motorsports. Dallara/Honda. 5 Laps
19 Scott Dixon, Chip Ganassi Racing. Dallara/Chevrolet. Electrical
20 Will Power, Team Penske. Dallara/Chevrolet. Mechanical
21 Max Chilton, Chip Ganassi Racing. Dallara/Chevrolet. Contact
22 Jack Hawksworth, AJ Foyt Enterprises Dallara/Honda. Mechanical
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 16:24 (Ref:3647428)   #35
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I watched the coverage on British BT Sport which goes on and has its own commentary during the ad breaks on the US coverage so I could at least figure out what was going on. And to be honest I think I would've switched off towards the end on the US coverage, it seemed like there were more ad breaks than race laps...
Anyways, Pagenaud and Castroneves seemed to be short on fuel and were backing off. Once Montoya got past them he gapped them by about 2 or 3 seconds per lap and Bourdais also pulled away quickly after his splash and dash so I doubt tyres were the issue on the Penske cars.
I want to change my previous comment. It may be even more frustrating that the coverage somehow missed every bit of the strategy that bourdais was on. They came back from one of their endless breaks and basically said hey, bourdais is in the lead after his last pit stop then tried to recap it even though they never really made it clear how it all shook out.

The nbc crew for IndyCar is great. I always enjoy those broadcasts. The abc broadcasts are as bad as it gets. Just painful.
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 16:34 (Ref:3647433)   #36
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Yet more great racing at Belle Isle, great strategy by Bourdais, Daly and JPM to all end up on the podium and bad luck to Power, he almost had that race. Pagueneud running out of fuel certainly makes the title fight a bit more interesting
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 16:43 (Ref:3647442)   #37
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Qualifying for Race 2:

Simon Pagenaud gets back to back Poles. Power was on course to get Pole but had two laps docked, as the stewards deemed he had interfered with Marco Andretti's hot lap.

1 Simon Pagenaud, Team Penske. Dallara/Chevrolet. 1m14.0379s
2 Ryan Hunter-Reay, Andretti Autosport. Dallara/Honda. 1m14.5621s
3 Helio Castroneves, Team Penske. Dallara/Chevrolet. 1m14.1904s
4 Scott Dixon, Chip Ganassi Racing. Dallara/Chevrolet. 1m14.6867s
5 Mikhail Aleshin, Schmidt Peterson Motorsports. Dallara/Honda. 1m14.7256s
6 Tony Kanaan, Chip Ganassi Racing. Dallara/Chevrolet. 1m14.8163s
7 Graham Rahal, Rahal Letterman Lanigan. Dallara/Honda. 1m14.7786s
8 Will Power, Team Penske. Dallara/Chevrolet. 1m14.8392s
9 Jack Hawksworth, AJ Foyt Enterprises. Dallara/Honda. 1m14.9349s
10 Juan Pablo Montoya, Team Penske. Dallara/Chevrolet. 1m14.8486s
11 Charlie Kimball, Chip Ganassi Racing. Dallara/Chevrolet. 1m15.1345s
12 Sebastien Bourdais, KVSH Racing. Dallara/Chevrolet. 1m15.1690s
13 Carlos Munoz Andretti, Autosport. Dallara/Honda. 1m15.2094s
14 James Hinchcliffe, Schmidt Peterson Motorsports. Dallara/Honda. 1m15.5692s
15 Gabby Chaves, Dale Coyne Racing. Dallara/Honda. 1m15.2840s
16 Takuma Sato, AJ Foyt Enterprises. Dallara/Honda. 1m15.5987s
17 Josef Newgarden, Ed Carpenter Racing. Dallara/Chevrolet. 1m15.4653s
18 Alexander Rossi, Andretti Herta. Dallara/Honda. 1m15.6904s
19 Max Chilton, Chip Ganassi Racing. Dallara/Chevrolet. 1m15.4678s
20 Spencer Pigot, Ed Carpenter Racing. Dallara/Chevrolet. 1m16.1132s
21 Conor Daly, Dale Coyne Racing. Dallara/Honda. 1m15.4766s
22 Marco Andretti, Andretti Autosport. Dallara/Honda. 1m16.4531s
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 16:50 (Ref:3647445)   #38
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Regarding the coverage, I watched the espn 3 replay this morning in between yard work and I thought they did reasonably well to follow constantly changing race. Hard to tell about the amount of Ads as they didn't cut to them, just turned off the sound, so I fast forwarded. They could still use one less person in the booth and one more on the pits.

Wonder how Dixie would have done had he not had the issues. Rough season for them but two races in a row where the fastest car didn't win. Keeps usnonnour toes!
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By the way, what did happen to pagenaud at the end?
I think the same thing as Helio. Just got caught out on strategy?
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 16:51 (Ref:3647446)   #39
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I want to change my previous comment. It may be even more frustrating that the coverage somehow missed every bit of the strategy that bourdais was on. They came back from one of their endless breaks and basically said hey, bourdais is in the lead after his last pit stop then tried to recap it even though they never really made it clear how it all shook out.

The nbc crew for IndyCar is great. I always enjoy those broadcasts. The abc broadcasts are as bad as it gets. Just painful.
Yes, I guess that's even more frustrating. I seem to remember that they even said 'forget Bourdais, he still has to make a stop'. He did and still came out ahead of the others
Daly and Bourdais only did a splash and dash quite late while JPM came in earlier and also took tyres. I think that cost him too much time. Plus of course he was stuck behind his slow team mates for a bit.
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 16:59 (Ref:3647452)   #40
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As a Brit I'd say that the US tv coverage and commentary team are the single biggest thing holding the series back. But maybe I'm just not used to the US style of doing things. It just seems like they very rarely talk about the race, spend more time on advert breaks than not, have lots of dead air and spend half the time that isn't dead air plugging other tv shows.
This could be and is an interesting point. Certianly, coverage of sports can help and hinder the progress but I it's more of a household name in the series and relevance outside of the Indy 500 (and hideous looking cars).

I do think espn and others can miss the opportunities to promote shows and have commercial breaks at more opportunistic times. There's natural breaks in other sports and they simply use a stopwatch to time breaks in motor racing. We lose.

As for the on air talent, still think three is 1 too many in a booth. Call the race, talk strategy when applicable, go to the pits often and cover from the sharp end through mid pack. Add to the show and don't try to be the show. Not sure how it got so difficult.
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 17:49 (Ref:3647467)   #41
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Indycar are lucky to have ESPN/ABC. It's a network that gives them the exposure they wouldn't really otherwise get and they don't really have much leverage over them to get them to improve their coverage if ESPN are determined not to spend anything on it. ESPN is obviously on some cost cutting blitz with their coverage. However BT Sports should be commended though for doing the best with the material they do get.

NBCSN is far from flawless but PT adds a lot of character to that broadcast and they have the staff.

Indycar should be ever-vigilant in new developments in promotion and so forth. But I don't think there's anythng revolutionary that can be done with Indycar. In some ways its waiting in the hope that public taste moves in their direction again.

I think these cars do look *better* than they did. But they don't look fierce. NASCAR isn't fierce either. NASCAR hasn't looked fierce since the 90s. So there's space there for Indycar to roll out cars that do look fierce and own that space. That might do something for Indycar. I don't know if Indycar are even thinking in this direction though.
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 19:48 (Ref:3647491)   #42
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I thought I was going to miss this race but fortunately not.

Doesn't look like rain is threatening like yesterday.
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 19:50 (Ref:3647492)   #43
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Well, nuts. Clean race 1 and sloppy start to race 2. Handful or so involved.

Edit. Looks sunny and perfect conditions for a motor race BJS!
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 19:51 (Ref:3647493)   #44
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That was a bit ragged and cars coming together, at the rear of the field at Turn 1. FCY.
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 19:54 (Ref:3647494)   #45
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That wasn't very clean start. And the Mayor is really furious.
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 19:55 (Ref:3647495)   #46
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That wasn't very clean start. And the Mayor is really furious.
Never seen him like that and don't blame him. Rough race 1 and too early for 3 wide....
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 20:14 (Ref:3647502)   #47
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Some great battles on the tiny see by side window....
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 20:26 (Ref:3647505)   #48
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Dixons day done again....
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 20:27 (Ref:3647507)   #49
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bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I think that was a bit of poetic justice. Montoya gets out ahead of Dixon, as they both pit after Dixon tried to out break Montoya, damaging both cars.
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Old 5 Jun 2016, 20:41 (Ref:3647515)   #50
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Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
Karma gets Montoya.
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