Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Road Car Forums > Road Car Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 21 Sep 2015, 07:53 (Ref:3575624)   #1
Mike E
Veteran
 
Mike E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
Leeds
Posts: 4,343
Mike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
VW Group facing billion $ fines and criminal charges in US

'Volkswagen AG’s admission that it cheated to make nearly half a million diesel cars appear cleaner-burning than they are leaves the automaker facing billions in fines, its executives risking criminal charges and its U.S. expansion plans in peril.'

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...iminal-charges
Mike E is offline  
Quote
Old 21 Sep 2015, 10:53 (Ref:3575662)   #2
fieldodreams79
Veteran
 
fieldodreams79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United States
The Dirty South
Posts: 12,043
fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I just saw this on my local morning news. Not a good look.
fieldodreams79 is offline  
__________________
"Knowing that it's in you and you never let it out
Is worse than blowing any engine or any wreck you'll ever have."
-Mike Cooley
Quote
Old 21 Sep 2015, 11:31 (Ref:3575679)   #3
GHOGH
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location:
nz
Posts: 299
GHOGH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

What the options for VW?
Buy back?
Recall?
Trade in on - Electric or Hybrid etc?

My guess is the addition of an ad-blue system like the larger diesels might be necessary.
https://youtu.be/V0SIevCXnUA
GHOGH is offline  
Quote
Old 21 Sep 2015, 12:38 (Ref:3575702)   #4
Mike E
Veteran
 
Mike E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
Leeds
Posts: 4,343
Mike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
The first 'option' is a $37,500 fine for every vehicle sold that broke the rules. They have already stopped sales of 4 cylinder diesels pending the outcome of this action and their share price is down 20% today. Ugly scenes.
Mike E is offline  
Quote
Old 21 Sep 2015, 16:56 (Ref:3575803)   #5
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 9,719
chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!
the class action lawsuits have started.

not looking good at all!

Last edited by chillibowl; 21 Sep 2015 at 17:18. Reason: posted a link to the class action lawsuit website - inappropriate sorry.
chillibowl is offline  
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there
I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place
Quote
Old 22 Sep 2015, 06:51 (Ref:3575938)   #6
Mike E
Veteran
 
Mike E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
Leeds
Posts: 4,343
Mike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike E will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
The investigation has spread to Asia. South Korea are looking into it and saying if the results are bad they will check other German makes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34322016
Mike E is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Sep 2015, 07:55 (Ref:3576268)   #7
GORDON STREETER
Veteran
 
GORDON STREETER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Spain
Kent+Mojacar Spain, but not always ?
Posts: 9,400
GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!
But people in the know have known these silly loopholes for years so why does it take America to shout first ? things like pumping air into the exhaust to dilute the gasses and DPFs that just simply collect "soot" and chuck it out "up the road" have been going on for a long time !
GORDON STREETER is offline  
__________________
Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa !
Quote
Old 23 Sep 2015, 10:12 (Ref:3576303)   #8
bella
Race Official
Veteran
 
bella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
France
Posts: 16,760
bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!
putting the conspiracy hat on... something to do with discrediting diesel in the mind of the public given its not the most environmentally friendly of fuels and we all still seem to lap it up, to increase demand in petrol to bring the prices back up?

to divide up the vw/seat/audi empire?

any other wild, totally implausible theories?
bella is offline  
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides
Quote
Old 23 Sep 2015, 10:33 (Ref:3576309)   #9
grantp
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,372
grantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by bella View Post
putting the conspiracy hat on... something to do with discrediting diesel in the mind of the public given its not the most environmentally friendly of fuels and we all still seem to lap it up, to increase demand in petrol to bring the prices back up?

to divide up the vw/seat/audi empire?

any other wild, totally implausible theories?

I believe the EU/US Trade treaty negotiations are proving challenging. Perhaps a good time to lob in an Exocet.

Having stopped QE the Americans might welcome a nice external input of compo cash now the BP rape and non-US banking fines seem to be slowing down. Plenty of car manufacturers to go for to keep that game rolling.

There are lots of ways this sort of game could be played out.
grantp is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Sep 2015, 12:54 (Ref:3576349)   #10
GORDON STREETER
Veteran
 
GORDON STREETER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Spain
Kent+Mojacar Spain, but not always ?
Posts: 9,400
GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!
And of course the Yank Tanks up to not so many years ago didn't pollute the atmosphere at all ! Obviously the tree huggers are going to love this
A couple of years back I took a Golf for an MOT and we couldn't sort out the high emissions, after a lot of aggro it was sorted by putting a new speed sensor in it !

Last edited by GORDON STREETER; 23 Sep 2015 at 13:06.
GORDON STREETER is offline  
__________________
Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa !
Quote
Old 23 Sep 2015, 16:19 (Ref:3576392)   #11
fieldodreams79
Veteran
 
fieldodreams79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United States
The Dirty South
Posts: 12,043
fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!fieldodreams79 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Yup, all our fault, like everything else in the world today.

The worst thing about our regulations is that the eliminate the good stuff from overseas.

Volkswagen AG Chief Executive Officer Martin Winterkorn has resigned.
fieldodreams79 is offline  
__________________
"Knowing that it's in you and you never let it out
Is worse than blowing any engine or any wreck you'll ever have."
-Mike Cooley
Quote
Old 23 Sep 2015, 16:39 (Ref:3576400)   #12
GORDON STREETER
Veteran
 
GORDON STREETER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Spain
Kent+Mojacar Spain, but not always ?
Posts: 9,400
GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldodreams79 View Post
Yup, all our fault, like everything else in the world today.
GORDON STREETER is offline  
__________________
Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa !
Quote
Old 23 Sep 2015, 16:45 (Ref:3576401)   #13
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 9,719
chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!
chillibowl is offline  
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there
I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place
Quote
Old 24 Sep 2015, 07:02 (Ref:3576566)   #14
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!
Have to wonder how the damage done by VW compares to Mobil's efforts with the Exxon Valdez and its result:

"Exxon appealed again. On May 23, 2007, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals denied ExxonMobil's request for a third hearing and let stand its ruling that Exxon owes $2.5 billion in punitive damages. Exxon then appealed to the Supreme Court, which agreed to hear the case........ In a decision issued June 25, 2008, Justice David Souter issued the judgment of the court, vacating the $2.5 billion award and remanding the case back to a lower court, finding that the damages were excessive with respect to maritime common law[/COLOR][/URL]. Exxon's actions were deemed "worse than negligent but less than maliciousThe punitive damages were further reduced to an amount of $507.5 million
[/B].

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exxon_Valdez_oil_spill

OR

Montara oil rig DISASTER!

"In 2012, PTTEP Australasia pleaded guilty to charges under the Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Act and was fined $510,000"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montara_oil_spill

Last edited by wnut; 24 Sep 2015 at 07:08.
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Sep 2015, 07:58 (Ref:3576577)   #15
mikuni
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 717
mikuni should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridmikuni should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnut View Post
Have to wonder how the damage done by VW compares to Mobil's efforts with the Exxon Valdez and its result:
It is an interesting parallel to draw, but I think it is completely different.

The above cases were "accidents". Sure there was negligence and all of that, but the companies can argue that the end result was not intended.

VW fully intended to cheat the system. It is not a blurred line at all, it is a well defined test that they intentionally built a cheat device to get around.

Further, the penalties are apparently very clearly spelt out in the legislation (from what I have read). Again, no blurred lines, if you break the rules you are liable for a fine up to (I can't remember the exact figure but around) US$38,600 / vehicle.

In some ways it pales in comparison to the value lost by VW in recent days. Stock down 35%, some 28 billion Euro. It appears to be recovering since the resignation of Winterkorn, but still a very serious situation. The stocks have declined more than the total value of both Renault and Peugeot

It has been suggested before, but a HUGE marketing programme is going to be required to push VW (Audi and Skoda) back into positive ground. I don't think entering F1 would be as stupid an idea as it sounds (on the face of it).
mikuni is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Sep 2015, 10:11 (Ref:3576597)   #16
grantp
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,372
grantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldodreams79 View Post
Yup, all our fault, like everything else in the world today.

The worst thing about our regulations is that the eliminate the good stuff from overseas.

Volkswagen AG Chief Executive Officer Martin Winterkorn has resigned.
The market for diesel cars in the States is less than 3% (or so I have read) and that market has only come into existence recently - possibly as a result of "Climate Change" regulations fiascos.

The market for diesel cars in Europe is and has always been much larger (Especially France and Germany historically) for a number of reasons.

The effects of any potential real problems related to the failure of the regulators to regulate when their own tests are undertaken would be tiny (but expensive) in the US but with the rest of the world piling in opportunistically could destroy the EU vehicle manufacturing base, especially that of Germany.

Except, perhaps, for the likes of formerly US government subsidised GM and Ford. Chrysler might be abandoned and hung out to dry now it is effectively owned by Fiat which, iirc, was close to bankruptcy a few years ago.

Since nearly all of the "experts" (especially those with an ecological or health drum to bang) are now being quoted as saying they could not understand how the reported figures and "pollution" levels did not seem to match (no alleged science cited though) for the past few years it seems clear that even the man in the street was probably well aware that the tests were likely to be meaningless in the real world.

It will be interesting to see of a minor regulatory problem in the US leads to a melt down in the European economy - especially in the Eurozone. Is confidence in things European is shaken strongly enough it just might especially with some of the other factors (refugees/migrants, Greece, Russia, etc.) all bubbling under.

As a perceptive UK politician once said when talking about unrecognised risks in politics. "Events, dear boy, events."

Meanwhile Winterkorn, who would no doubt have retired already had he not been in such a powerful and financially rewarding job, has resigned and taken, reportedly, a large pension pot with him along with a very comfortable salary from last year and, presumably, this year.

I think I would do the same if I was in his position. I certainly would not want to deal with the all of the crap hitting the fan.
grantp is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Sep 2015, 10:51 (Ref:3576609)   #17
grantp
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,372
grantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
This may require some digging to verify the story but, if it is as reported, either the VW management have been very stupid (historically), very inept since the report was published or the entire storm is being whipped up for some other purpose.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-Goliath.html


Presumably we will find out something closer to the reality in due course.
grantp is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Sep 2015, 10:54 (Ref:3576610)   #18
BertMk2
Race Official
Veteran
 
BertMk2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Nr Maidstone, Kent
Posts: 10,270
BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!
Does the average car buyer really care?

The faked results don't in any way impact the way the car drives - the consumer will not notice the difference between a car with the dodgy software and one without (I don't understand the recall of the cars for updates - it's going to make no difference to the owners).

Will anybody have bought one of the effected cars based on the emissions test results? Seems highly unlikely to me. If you're that bothered about emissions you buy a Prius (and ignore the environmental mess involved in the construction of those - but that's another story).

As far as I can see a large company has been caught cheating a government test - there's nothing to really worry the consumer. It's a test dodge rather than a fundamental safety flaw - I can't see how that's going to dent consumer confidence. If it does and the price of VW's falls through the floor I'll be straight out to bag myself a bargain.
BertMk2 is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Sep 2015, 11:42 (Ref:3576621)   #19
grantp
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,372
grantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by BertMk2 View Post
I can't see how that's going to dent consumer confidence. If it does and the price of VW's falls through the floor I'll be straight out to bag myself a bargain.
Consumer confidence will do what it's told to do!

So I agree that there may be bargains to be had and even better of the "consumer confidence" problem covers the petrol engined variants as well. It probably will given the way these things work.

Unless, of course the VW management come up with a really clever way to gain the public's sympathy.

There's no obvious track record for such an approach as far as I know.
grantp is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Sep 2015, 14:41 (Ref:3576654)   #20
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 9,719
chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BertMk2 View Post
Does the average car buyer really care?
thats the multi billion dollar question right there.

hard to find direct comparisons but i feel something akin to the various scandals about the labeling of 'green' or 'organic' foods. there are numerous stories and exposes about the labels very often being mis representations but overwhelmingly people in general are still willing to pay a premium price for something that says 'organic' nor are they willing to do the research themselves.

granted a car is a far more expensive item but people also love bargains.

i own a 2014 Jetta 1.8L so im not directly affected by this, but i do wonder what effect it will have on the future resale of my car in general. i keep my car in good shape, its got the premium option package, and i service it regularly at an authorized VW dealership so i would think that the best trade-in im going to get (im not a fan of privately selling cars - dont like strangers coming to my house kind of thing) is going to be from VW provided i am buying a new car from them at the same time.

scandal or no, im happy with my car and if im getting a deal on my next one im inclined to stay within the VW family.

they have apparently hired the same law firm that represent BP in the aftermath of Deepwater Horizon so i would expect a very huge PR campaign to be a part of their defense.

im inclined to agree with mikuni that doubling down on motor sports is a good way to do this although a series which allows them to promote 'clean diesel' seems more the route they should take rather then F1 where frankly there is a good chance they will be made to look even sillier.
chillibowl is offline  
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there
I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place
Quote
Old 24 Sep 2015, 16:40 (Ref:3576687)   #21
Sodemo
Veteran
 
Sodemo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
United Kingdom
Solihull, West Mids, UK
Posts: 11,147
Sodemo has a real shot at the podium!Sodemo has a real shot at the podium!Sodemo has a real shot at the podium!Sodemo has a real shot at the podium!Sodemo has a real shot at the podium!
How could this impact company car owners?

I currently have a Golf Bluemotion 1.6 TDI.
Sodemo is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Sep 2015, 16:57 (Ref:3576690)   #22
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,803
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BertMk2 View Post
Will anybody have bought one of the effected cars based on the emissions test results? Seems highly unlikely to me. If you're that bothered about emissions you buy a Prius (and ignore the environmental mess involved in the construction of those - but that's another story).
Buying a diesel car (vs petrol) in the US is not a casual decision. Buyers are likely looking at a combination of efficincy plus low or acceptable emissions. There has been a large push to tout the "clean diesel" nature of these cars plus the new low low sulfur fuel. Many arguments about what is the most "green" car to buy today can easily end with "get a diesel". So in short... yes they care.

While it ultimately is the evasion of the regulations that tripped them up, there WILL be fallout with consumers. VW already struggles here in the US. This will not go away quietly.

Richard
Richard C is online now  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 24 Sep 2015, 19:34 (Ref:3576744)   #23
icemachine
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Canada
Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,311
icemachine should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridicemachine should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by BertMk2 View Post
Does the average car buyer really care?

The faked results don't in any way impact the way the car drives - the consumer will not notice the difference between a car with the dodgy software and one without (I don't understand the recall of the cars for updates - it's going to make no difference to the owners).

Will anybody have bought one of the effected cars based on the emissions test results? Seems highly unlikely to me. If you're that bothered about emissions you buy a Prius (and ignore the environmental mess involved in the construction of those - but that's another story).

As far as I can see a large company has been caught cheating a government test - there's nothing to really worry the consumer. It's a test dodge rather than a fundamental safety flaw - I can't see how that's going to dent consumer confidence. If it does and the price of VW's falls through the floor I'll be straight out to bag myself a bargain.
Mercedes, BMW and Chevrolet all required the use of Urea (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) to reduce NOx levels to pass US emissions tests. VW said it's engine mapping scheme was good enough to meet "clean diesel" levels without the addition of DEF.

Now we know that they were gaming the system and those 11 million vehicles will either require a permanent software fix which will reduce engine power or the addition of a DEF system to maintain current output levels.

These cars probably lost about 20-30% of their resale value over night - so yes customers are going to care.
icemachine is offline  
__________________
It's time to switch to Whiskey, we've been drinking Beer all night - Corb Lund
Quote
Old 24 Sep 2015, 20:48 (Ref:3576768)   #24
grantp
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,372
grantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by icemachine View Post
Mercedes, BMW and Chevrolet all required the use of Urea (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) to reduce NOx levels to pass US emissions tests. VW said it's engine mapping scheme was good enough to meet "clean diesel" levels without the addition of DEF.

Now we know that they were gaming the system and those 11 million vehicles will either require a permanent software fix which will reduce engine power or the addition of a DEF system to maintain current output levels.

These cars probably lost about 20-30% of their resale value over night - so yes customers are going to care.

Have VW really sold 11million small capacity 4 cylinder diesel powered cars in the US?
grantp is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Sep 2015, 22:13 (Ref:3576797)   #25
icemachine
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Canada
Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,311
icemachine should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridicemachine should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by grantp View Post
Have VW really sold 11million small capacity 4 cylinder diesel powered cars in the US?
No the 11 million is worldwide sales, all of which were fitted with this software defeat device. The US had about 500,000 of these vehicles and another 100,000 were sold in Canada which has nearly identical emission regulations
icemachine is offline  
__________________
It's time to switch to Whiskey, we've been drinking Beer all night - Corb Lund
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
If I had a billion dollars to spend on Eastern Creek 6.213km Australasian Touring Cars. 125 28 Jul 2008 11:29
Schumi's billion-dollar BMW farewell. Down F0rce Formula One 38 25 Jul 2006 15:04
A few billion dollars well spent? pforrester Formula One 13 15 May 2006 12:04
Offered: VW Beetle RSI (04/05 VW Cup Champion) Spinner Racers Classifieds 1 19 Mar 2006 16:07


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:56.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.