Brabham BT18 - Page 3

Alan Brown · 27 Oct 2006, 07:48 (Ref:1750773)

I forgot to add to my previous post that BT18 F2-4-66 was out in the same race. Owned by Ferdinand Gustafson since 1969; it went to Kurt Ahrens in Germany then to a famous Swede, Ronnie Peterson.

Alan Brown

Chris Townsend · 30 Oct 2006, 15:54 (Ref:1753661)

I have BT18 F2.7.66 noted in period as the Ahrens car, then Ronnie Peterson 1967 and Gustav Dieden 1968.

Chris

allenbrown · 1 Nov 2006, 12:48 (Ref:1755247)

Denis Lupton offered this from his notes which might help with this discrepancy:

F2-4-66, entered by Kurt Ahrens, with MAE engine, then to Ronnie Petersson,et al,
F2-7-66, entered by Caltex Racing for Kurt Ahrens, with SCA engine, to who knows?

Allen

allenbrown · 10 Nov 2006, 16:02 (Ref:1762815)

I have an "ex-Winkelmann Brabham BT18" mystery in Ireland in 1969 with Tommy Reid. He seemed to use it as a backup car to his BT23 with a Ford t/c.

Anyone have anything on this car?

Allen

Chris Townsend · 10 Nov 2006, 16:17 (Ref:1762826)

Goes to John Smith in 1970
Who is still around in Northern Ireland...
What's said to be the Rindt car first shows up in England in 1972 with Paul Brindley in libre, so this could be the Rees car. Smith might remember who he sold it to.

Chris

allenbrown · 10 Nov 2006, 16:40 (Ref:1762841)

Smith? That's nicely confusing. He's already calling what I presume to be his ex-Templeton BT14 a "BT16" and a "BT18" in 1969.

Thanks

LoLola · 28 Nov 2006, 02:34 (Ref:1776315)

I recently was viewing a collection in southern California owned by the noted collector Tom Malloy. In his collection was a black BT18 that was his first training car. I am not sure of the chassis number but I am sure he would share it if you contacted him.

allenbrown · 18 Dec 2006, 22:49 (Ref:1794112)

Just found Mike Irons in an "ex-Reeves" Brabham-Holbay BT18 in a Monoposto race an Snetterton (AS 27 Aug 1970 p50).

That might help someone one day...

allenbrown · 1 Jan 2007, 18:39 (Ref:1802941)

Chris

Do you have the 1966 F1R book? At Brands 13 Nov 1966 they list the following Brabhams:

#63 Mike Walker BT18 F2-30-66
#64 Walter Donnelly BT18 F2-38-66
#65 Martin Slater BT16 AM 25
#67 [C Lambert] Alistair Welch BT15 F3-26-65
#68 Mike Keens BT10 F2-1-64
#74 [MRS] Harry Stiller BT18 F2-34-66
#75 [MRS] Tony Lanfranchi BT18 F2-13-66
#76 [MRS] Tony Trimmer BT16 F2-22-65
#78 [California America Racing] Steve Matchett BT15 F3-1-65
#79 Dave Williamson BT15 F3-25-66

Another to follow in a moment.

Allen

allenbrown · 1 Jan 2007, 18:49 (Ref:1802945)

Also at Brands 27 Dec 1966

#1 Stiller as above
#3 Lambert as above
#7 [Crispeed] Ken Costello BT15 F3-8-65
#8 David Cole BT18 F2-24-66
#10 Slater as above (*)
#11 [Frank Manning] Mike Walker BT18 F2-30-66 (*)
#17 Derek Bell BT21/4
#21 David Morgan BT15 AM 24
#22 Graham Coaker BT15 AM 94
#24 John Davies BT18 F2-10-66

(*) John Ralph (#9) is given the chassis number of Slater's BT16, Slater (#10) the number of Walker's BT18 and Walker (#11) the number of Moore's Lotus 41. I've unwound these typos above.

Allen

allenbrown · 7 Jan 2007, 18:01 (Ref:1808932)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Just found Mike Irons in an "ex-Reeves" Brabham-Holbay BT18 in a Monoposto race an Snetterton (AS 27 Aug 1970 p50).

That might help someone one day...

Me, as it turns out. I'm glad I use 10 Tenths as a notebook! Ed Reeves has a F3 BT18 in 1969, winning libre races at Cadwell Park (29 Jun 1969) and at Oulton Park (5 Jul 1969) where David Martell drives and the car is described as "ex-Irwin". So I turn to Chris's list and:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

BT18 F2.1.66 1966: Works: Chris Irwin 1967: Bob King 1968: Bob King (A.S ad end of year, raced FL Silverstone, March; 'works F3' ) f/s AS Bedford, not raced since August 1968
BT18 F2.21.66 1966: Works: Chris Irwin 1967: Peter Deal For sale by Spencer Elton [ex Deal/David Wray]

So which has Reeves got? Deal continued to run his F2-21-66 up to at least Sep 1969 (2nd in a libre at Brands) so I guess Reeves and Irons must have had F2-1-66. Or am I missing something? Or assuming too much? And who is David Wray?

Allen

**John Turner** · 8 Jan 2007, 11:01 (Ref:1809434)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

BT18 [F2.28.66] MAE 1966: Picko Troberg Reine Wisell

Owned last year by John Counsell since he brought it to the HSCC Silverstone meeting - 20/21 May, when I noted the following:-

1966 - Picko Troberg
1967 - Reine Wisell
1969 - Bo Ericsson

allenbrown · 9 Jan 2007, 14:48 (Ref:1810431)

Graeme Lawrence ran a 'new' BT18 in 1966 but it's only ever been known by its AM number of AM144. It first ran (according to Vercoe) 5 Nov 1966 so it could have been a very late BT18 or a second-hand car. Can anyone comment on whether AM144 would imply an early BT18 or a late one? Only two AM number have been mentioned on the thread, both implying AM144 would be a late car.

Allen

Chris Townsend · 9 Jan 2007, 20:37 (Ref:1810700)

There are now relatively few [a mere 13!!] BT18s that we can't account for in both 1966 and/or 67. The Lawrence car has to be one of these
3; 14; 16; 19 works car not known in 67; 23 Winkelmann car not known in 67; 25; 29; 31; 32; 35 Williams car not known in 67 and Williams gives chassis nos when he offers his other BT18s for sale in Sept 67; 43; 45; 46

One of the very late numbers is presumably the Collings car that debuts in F3 in 1969 when it is described as previously unraced; another is, I guess, the Gubelmann car which is advertised as a late 66 car in CPAW in late 67.

Perhaps Denis Lupton has notes on the chassis nos above that might eliminate a few more contenders?

BTW agree with you that the only logical solution to the ex Irwin cars is that Reeves has the ex King car unless there was a third Chequered Flag BT18

Chris

allenbrown · 10 Jan 2007, 22:13 (Ref:1811831)

I'm trying to decypher some New Zealand "BT18"s, mostly from the 1970 Tasman season entry lists. Could someone check this for me?

Graham Watson - "BT18" in 1970 Internationals = BT16 F2-9-65
Wayne Murdoch - "BT18" in 1970 Internationals = BT10 IC-6-64
Dexter Dunlop - "BT18" entry only in 1970 = BT18 AM144 (but not bought)
Russ Noble - "BT18" in 1974 Internationals = BT18 AM168?
Murray Baker - "Elk" in 1975 Internationals = BT18 AM168 + 5-litre Chev

Or was Watson in BT18 AM144?

Good evening David!

Thanks

Allen

Bryan Miller · 11 Jan 2007, 00:49 (Ref:1811924)

Greg Cusack sold '' BT10 , IC-6-64 '' to NZ to Don McDonald but I believe the car was destroyed properly sometime in 1966, David may correct me.

Bryan.

David McKinney · 12 Jan 2007, 12:59 (Ref:1813193)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Miller

Greg Cusack sold '' BT10 , IC-6-64 '' to NZ to Don McDonald but I believe the car was destroyed properly sometime in 1966, David may correct me.
Bryan.

No, it was still running (in FF spec) well into the 1970s. I don't have anything on it after 1976 however

David McKinney · 12 Jan 2007, 13:05 (Ref:1813197)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

I'm trying to decypher some New Zealand "BT18"s, mostly from the 1970 Tasman season entry lists. Could someone check this for me?

Graham Watson - "BT18" in 1970 Internationals = BT16 F2-9-65
Wayne Murdoch - "BT18" in 1970 Internationals = BT10 IC-6-64
Dexter Dunlop - "BT18" entry only in 1970 = BT18 AM144 (but not bought)
Russ Noble - "BT18" in 1974 Internationals = BT18 AM168?
Murray Baker - "Elk" in 1975 Internationals = BT18 AM168 + 5-litre Chev

Or was Watson in BT18 AM144?

Good evening David!

Thanks

Allen

Good afternoon Allen
My server's being playing up all week, so I can only access this (and other sites) if I'm lucky
Above correct on all counts, though I'm only 95% sure about the Noble mount - he had previously raced a BT21

Euromontagna · 14 Feb 2007, 21:04 (Ref:1841628)

Another BT18 appearance... hillclimbs...
Pfaendler in 1971
Ruegg in 1973
chassis ???

allenbrown · 28 Feb 2007, 21:39 (Ref:1854102)

I don't know if this helps but Daniel Gache bought a new BT18 from the factory in 1967 to replace his BT15 (Ech Jun 1973 p55).

allenbrown · 8 Mar 2007, 19:58 (Ref:1861701)

Raymond Rispal has a 1966 Brabham, so presumably a BT18, in French hillclimbs in 1975. Rispal, who was by then 65 years old, had been running a Brabham in the FL category since 1971 or even earlier.

Andrew Fellowes · 9 Mar 2007, 21:20 (Ref:1862630)

Excellent find Allen as Rispal pops up quite often, I recall the car being listed as a Brabham-Rispal now and again?

Leif Rideout · 11 Mar 2007, 19:46 (Ref:1863796)

Hello all, it appears that the only way to distinguish a type BT18 from a BT18A from a BT18B is to know the car's history as they are all "F2-xx-66"? That being said is there a list available that links types with serial #? More specifically, is John Counsell's F2-28-66 an F2, F3, or FB car? Thanks very much for your input, Leif Rideout (new to list)

Bryan Miller · 11 Mar 2007, 21:59 (Ref:1863989)

Leif,

Suggest you read all this thread on BT18's , page 2 has the answer to your question , according to Chris Townsend this car is ex Roy Winkleman Racing for Jochen Rindt , so therefor this particular car is an F2 in period.
F2 then being 1.0 litre Cosworth SCA or BRM in 1966 the last year of the 1.0 litre F2 , the new Cosworth FVA 1600 and others then started in 1967 for the new F2.

Bryan.

Bryan.

Chris Townsend · 11 Mar 2007, 22:02 (Ref:1863995)

Leif

Welcome to the forum. Bryan is right, but it's also possible for a BT18 to be a F3 or F2 car one year and run in FB in the USA with a 1600 twin cam [or indeed in British libre races] the next, and still be 'in period'. Indeed, some cars could legitimately be run as vintage FF I guess...

Chris

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