Brabham BT 6 (Formula Junior 1963)

[RickOz]

I just came across this thread and thought this might be of interest.
I purchased a replica BT-6 rolling chassis complete with superb new painted aluminium bodywork (green with yellow) from Roy Pounders' mother in Gosford in around 1967/68. I understood Roy was still in Europe following Paul Hawkins death at LeMans.
I sold the car on to a young solicitor in Melbourne complete with a new Formula Ford engine the following year.
The chassis had no chassis number and I am sure it was a copy.

[allenbrown]

Thanks Rick. That could prove very useful as we put all the pieces together.

[allenbrown]

From the BT18 thread.

Originally Posted by Michel Rechede

Allen
A friend of mine could read in the seventies on the Rispal's Brabham chassis plate: FJ-2-63 ( the ex Olson, Martel's car)but I dont know if Raymond Rispal had only one Brabham...
I hope it can help you,
Michel

[Bryan Miller]

Rickoz,

I would think the car you are referring to is what is known as the '' Talisman Brabham '' built up with info. and parts from Ron T. by Roy Pounder [ ex works mechanic ] and Cliff Treffrey , the car still resides in Victoria to my knowledge.

[edholly]

There is a Website called Jack Brabham Engines Limited which has an open invitation for people to pass on their story. Christophe Thiery has posted some photos from when the various Brabham cars used his Uncle's garage over a number of years.

See http://www.jack-brabham-engines.com/yourstory.aspx

There are some great shots of Denny in what would be FJ-9-63. The grid photo shows Denny on Pole, Frank Gardner and Paul Hawkins adjacent, making up the front row.

Other photos include Denny working on the gearbox would indicate he had a problem - which was to rob him of a placing in the final, having won his heat giving him that pole position - http://www.formula2.net/FJ63_E20.htm

Ed

[Marcus Mussa]

Originally Posted by edholly

Other photos include Denny working on the gearbox would indicate he had a problem - which was to rob him of a placing in the final, having won his heat giving him that pole position -

Ed

Interesting to see that this car has a rear anti-roll bar.
Marcus

[grant levis]

Hi folks, I,m Roly Levis' nephew, and have been asking about his recollections on his various cars etc. Only recently he was made aware of Denis Hulme racing FJ/13/63 as he didn't bother getting car history in 1965 when he bought car from Alec Miildren.
The car FJ/18/63 was owned by Roly (he repaired it), then sold to Bob Blackburn (of Mistral) acting as agent for Peter Yock, who sent it to England getting Lotus 25 (R4) in return. This was done for Customs reasons. Roly used it from Oct 66 til he got BT18 (AM168) for NZIGP Jan 67. He believes it to be first BT6 to have twin cam fitted as original.

[grant levis]

Sorry, made a boob on last post, car Ed Holley races is FJ-9-63, and is a beautifully presented car,and very original as was in Jiggs garage for ages ie never got turned into a sports car or F/Ford like most did. Roly told me today that he modified this chasiss (and also #4 and #18) around the cockpit opening. He added 3/4 inch tubing at 30 degree from dash to main tube, along main tube, then in at 30 degree to firewall. #4 was done after Roy Lyme bent it badly, #18 after he bought car from Caldwells. He got the idea from a photo in Autosport.
also just seen #12 chassis in Auckland ( being restored),has floor mounted pedals, tube type dash bulkhead ie not BT2, but has later (BT18) type rear end (done when used as F/Ford), has original bakelite style chassis plate (50mm x 35mm x 2.5mm).
keep up all the great research guys
Grant Levis

[edholly]

Have been trying to piece together when the various BT6s commenced their racing. Using the F2 Register I have been able to ascertain the following start dates against the list of first owners provided by Denis at the start of this thread.

I don't know whether any BT6s left the factory other than as a Formula Junior ... ? Maybe someone can enlighten us if this was the case as that would mean the debut date would not be there.

I found Roy James and Cliff Ward as debutees but in Denis's original list of owners they are not mentioned, so not sure which chassis they would have had ... ?

If anyone has knowledge of the ones I have not been able to find, I will update a master list and add it here in time.

It would appear MRD were very busy leading up to the start of the 63 season with so many cars debuting in March and April.

Ed

1963 Formula Junior Brabham BT6 debuts from F2 Register

March 16 Oulton Pk FJ-5-63 David Prophet
March 16 Oulton Pk FJ-7-63 Green Man Garage John Dunn
March 16 Oulton Pk FJ-??-63 Roy James
March 17 Snetterton FJ-4-63 Rodney Banting,Alan Bates, Bruce Harre, Lawrence *
Mar 21 Sebring FJ-1-63 Works, then to Cunningham early '63
April 6 Oulton Pk FJ-6-63 Ian Walker Racing Frank Gardner
April 6 Oulton Pk FJ-3-63 Ian Walker Racing Paul Hawkins
April 6 Oulton Pk FJ-9-63 Works Denis Hulme, A.Mildren Racing,Roly Levis,
April 15 Silverstone Club FJ-??-63 Cliff Ward
April 28 Nurburgring FJ-2-63 Works to J. Olsen,to Phillipe Martel
May 6 Stocklolm FJ-8-63 Curt Lincoln
May 12 Circuit del Garda FJ-14-63 Ford France Jo Schlesser
June 13 Pries Von Wein FJ-13-63 John Peterson (written off)
June 15 Oulton Pk FJ-12-63 Denis O'Sullivan, Ken Sager
June 23 Mallory Pk FJ-10-63 Mike Hailwood

Unable to identify debut meeting
FJ-11-63 Giannini A&d, Scuderia Montegrappa
FJ-15-63 Gavin Youl, Greg Cusack,various,Henk Woelders,Jon Davison,Harry Forde,Peter Johnson.
FJ-16-63 Betty Haig, Peter Richardson
FJ-17-63 Charles Vogelle Silvio Moser
FJ-18-63 Andy Buchanan, Bill Caldwell, to Wock? UK **
FJ-19-63 Grand Prix International Corp of L.A. Bruce Kessler
FJ-20-63 Langley Garage Graham White
FJ-21-63 with the owners you list,also Ed Brannon,of Arizona
FJ-22-63 Jim Miller, Palo Verdes,California
FJ-24-63 Cameron MacArthur,Fort Collins, Colorado ,

[allenbrown]

Cliff Ward had a BT2 and his reported BT6 could be that car updated.

Roy James is said to have had Hulme's Boxing Day car, which seems to fall somewhere in between the BT2s and the production BT6s.

I'll be very interested to see what first appearance dates you uncover for FJ-21-63, FJ-22-63 and FJ-24-63.

[James Murray]

I located a BT6 in the USA a few years ago which had been owned by Cameron McArthur at some point in the 1980's. It had apparently been used on ovals prior to his ownership buy a guy called Andre Le Blanc with a v8 and the back end of the frame had been heavily modified. The front end of the frame certainly was Brabham but not BT6 and probably BT9 or 15. There were no numbers on the chassis so if its the same car refferred to in the above post I have no idea where #24 came from. The guy who was selling it certainly didnt think it was #24.

[PaulHiggins]

Hi
I'm new to this forum and I see this thread was last posted to over a year ago however I just wanted to add the following.

I owned FJ 4 63 in New Zealand for 12 years from 1988 to 2000 when it was sold to Australia finally ending up in the hands of Peter Strauss.

In the mid nineties Denny Hulme told me he had driven #4 but I can't recall where he said he had driven it.

[allenbrown]

Thanks Paul.

[Maxwalker]

Hello everyone,
Grant Levis, i'm sure you can help me after what you said!
I juste find a BT6 in the south of France!
The owner says to me that the frame is a real BT6, and the body is take from a BT15.True or false? I've some doubts... Can anyone help me?
The engine is a cosworth 1000 MAE with a Hewland gearbox. The pedals are mounted on the floor too.
But he doesn't know the car history and i would like to know more details about it (who were the drivers of this single seater, where did it race,etc...
On the frame plate is written BT6 AM 57. So maybe an old car of the Alec Miildren racing? Strange... As you said at the start of the post bt6 chassis number like FJ-XX-63 and only 20 cars were built.
I join some picture of this single seater (sorry for the quality but i have only 7 pics)











I'm looking forward from hearing to you!
Max

[allenbrown]

Definitely not a BT6. The BT6 had a long chassis, this is a short chassis. The chassis plate is from much later, 1967 at the earliest. The "AM 57" suggest it has an Arch Motors number on it. If that number is right, then it's probably a 1965 car.

Can you show some pictures of the back of the car - including one which shows the rear bulkhead from the back please? Lots of clues around there. Also, can you let me see the side of the car?

[Maxwalker]

Thanks for your help!
What means the Arch Motors number? This is not a Brabham or a copy?
Have you got an idea of what could be this single seater? I'll try to make more pictures.
On the both sides there are two fuel tanks, and another one behind the wheel.
Hope you understand me, and excuse me for my bad english!

[Andrew Fellowes]

Arch Motors built frames for several race car manufacturers. They stamped their own number on them, so with Brabhams you can find a Brabham chassis number (on the dash) and and Arch Motors frame number (on the back of the chassis). Genuine car, not a copy.
Over time both can disappear!

[allenbrown]

Yes it's probably a Brabham but not a BT6. More photographs might tell us what sort of Brabham but the suggestion is a BT15 or BT16.

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Yes it's probably a Brabham but not a BT6. More photographs might tell us what sort of Brabham but the suggestion is a BT15 or BT16.

BT14/15/16 had pendant pedals.
Nose looks rather rounded for a BT15.
It seems to have large fuel tanks with a central filler - could be F2?
Might it be a BT9?

[allenbrown]

BT9 had the long chassis Peter. This is short chassis isn't it? BT10 maybe?

[phdm]

No Allen, it is not a BT10.
The dashboard on the BT10 is flat and this car has the later type.
This car was presented on Autodiva a few years ago by the then owner as a BT21 and even as BT21-30, which was obviously not correct for well know reasons.
The car was however well known to me and I had partly researched its history up to a point. From memory, amongst previous owners was a Mr Mathevet whom I had spoken to.
Definitely never ever a BT6 but a genuine Brabham nontheless, admittedly with modified roll hoop.
I suspect the car has Lockheed calipers which would make it a BT16.
The AM number is consistent with this.
Additional photos showing the calipers would be helpful.
Another worthy information would be the gearbox number and number of gear ratios.

[Maxwalker]

I come back with news and pictures
Furthermore I just find this website:
http://www.race-cars.com/carsold/bra...9/b16009pe.htm
http://www.race-cars.com/carsold/bra...9/b16009ss.htm
this chassis is very similar to the one that i show you!














So i guess it miss a 1 before the 6...


Phdm could you tell us what say Mr Mathevet about this car?

[Maxwalker]

I come back with news and pictures
Furthermore I just find this website:
http://www.race-cars.com/carsold/bra...9/b16009pe.htm
http://www.race-cars.com/carsold/bra...9/b16009ss.htm
this chassis is very similar to the one that i show you!














So i guess it miss a 1 before the 6...


Phdm could you tell us what say Mr Mathevet about this car?

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by phdm

No Allen, it is not a BT10.
The dashboard on the BT10 is flat and this car has the later type.
This car was presented on Autodiva a few years ago by the then owner as a BT21 and even as BT21-30, which was obviously not correct for well know reasons.
The car was however well known to me and I had partly researched its history up to a point. From memory, amongst previous owners was a Mr Mathevet whom I had spoken to.
Definitely never ever a BT6 but a genuine Brabham nontheless, admittedly with modified roll hoop.
I suspect the car has Lockheed calipers which would make it a BT16.
The AM number is consistent with this.
Additional photos showing the calipers would be helpful.
Another worthy information would be the gearbox number and number of gear ratios.

But the pedals are wrong for a BT16...

[Maxwalker]

See on historic racing (chassis number AM56!) :
http://www.historicracing.org.uk/rac...T16History.pdf