Something I have wondered for awhile.... F1 going out of business or moving on?

[dj4monie]

So many F1 teams have come and gone in the last 20-30 years, but several companies kept other projects on the side to keep their people & business and viable if the F1 team was on a sudden downturn, but what about teams that just decided to sell to another person, why not turn to a more profitable form of racing?

Colin Chapman and Lotus was involved off and on in Sportscar racing, how come say Eddie Jordan didn't go this route and build a car for Le Mans and maybe sell chassis? He had an advantage in being a mid-fielder F1 team that when the wind was blowing right and Eddie has his lucky socks on, they won a race or two.

That still takes talented engineers, fab men and aero people.

The Sportscar market is and has been quite ripe for additional market growth. Its been dominated by one brand for at least the last 10 years - Lola and they have stayed profitable even when they got dropped as a major supplier to CART.

I thought these guys were racers not businessmen always looking to profit. Profit is fine, but I thought racing was the larger calling and that's mainly where you were involved? Or most people treating F1 like the NFL, where you buy and built up a team and sell it for profit some years down the road.

I don't understand the mentality of being a backmarker in F1 either, when there so man other directions you can go and give your sponsors more value for their dollar/euro.

What's your guys feeling on this?

I like F1, but often times I wonder WHY some teams just want to be mid fielders or backmarkers?

[RaiseYourFist]

More people see backmarkers in F1 then front runners in sportscars because sportscar racing has just not been that popular lately, for casual people atleast.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by RaiseYourFist

More people see backmarkers in F1 then front runners in sportscars because sportscar racing has just not been that popular lately, for casual people atleast.

That tide was changing and even so, the popularity of Sportscars when Jordan started faltering never to return to race-winning form. Instead of going deeper in debt (which is what happen) he should have looked at his options.

Enough eyesball see Sportscar racing for the manufactures to justify the expense...

[bludvl_x19]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

That tide was changing and even so, the popularity of Sportscars when Jordan started faltering never to return to race-winning form. Instead of going deeper in debt (which is what happen) he should have looked at his options.

Enough eyesball see Sportscar racing for the manufactures to justify the expense...

I don't agree with that last part. Every F1 race weekend, there is a full page wrap up in my local rag (which is good for sports reporting) but as far as sportscars? They had a paragraph piece (physical size 2"x1", realisically it was filler) last week saying that David Brabham is racing for AM at LM this year, and if he does well, they might have the same again.

If you didn't know that LM was on, here in Australia, you wouldn't even know about it. Let alone any other LMS/ALMS race.

F1 on the other hand has TV coverage, a vital factor in attracting attention.

Mick

[Oldtony]

Interesting isn't it that F1 was born as something for drivers to go and do between the big sportscar races, and to provide a basis for a drivers championship because sportscar drives were mostly as part of a driving team.
Now Sportscars just don't rate outside the US and a smallish part of the EU.
Now if LMS, ALMS and FIA GT could operate as a single series that might just change.
By the way Williams and McLaren have both been involved in sportscar building.

[cptkablamo]

It is interesting...most seem to by the way before bailing to other catagories (to keep the name alive) but I suppose with the money in F1, things can go badly so quickly that when you can go, it is too late...sponsors, agreement with FOM etc...

But why exactly people like Jordan and Prost, Super Aguri thought they could continue when things were going so badly is strange...

But in the past 10-20 years, of all those who have gone under, who has made the leap to Sportscars???

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

So many F1 teams have come and gone in the last 20-30 years, but several companies kept other projects on the side to keep their people & business and viable if the F1 team was on a sudden downturn, but what about teams that just decided to sell to another person, why not turn to a more profitable form of racing?

Finances. Many of those 'private' F1 teams were highly financed by investment bankers. Racing does not make money, but selling the team to another group of high flying financiers does.

[Malfunction Junction]

As Oldtony has pointed out, McLaren built the F1, which dominated GT racing for.....a couple of years, and Williams build the BMW prototypes (and Renault Tourers before them), which won LM in 1999(?) and gave them valuable experience before joining the F1 circus.

In other words, Frank saw the value of diversification, just as Ron has done with the electronics company, the road car business and so on.

To do all that though, a team needs the capital to invest in the equipment required. That's why diversifying while going well (such as about 1999-2000 for Jordan) would be a good idea, broadening the base of the business. A team like Red Bull, with it's Red Bull Technologies offshoot, could do such a thing now.

I'm not sure what Williams are doing in this field at the moment, but if I were a manufacturer looking for a competitive edge, I'd be talking to them. They're doing too well with too little money in F1 to let an opportunity go by.

[Speed-King]

Williams also built the suspension for Opel's 1996 ITC championship run IIRC.

[rcarr]

Williams helped to develop the Metro 6R4.

March had a sportscar, it was seemingly better than the McLaren F1.

When GM bought the controlling stake in Lotus, they took active suspension into sportscars.

So many teams over the years have crossed over.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Finances. Many of those 'private' F1 teams were highly financed by investment bankers. Racing does not make money, but selling the team to another group of high flying financiers does.

Sounds like the NFL to me....

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Sounds like the NFL to me....

Congratulations. Your STARTING to understand Big league F1 racing.

[AU N EGL]

"Super Aguri have withdrawn from the Formula One world championship with immediate effect, the team announced on Tuesday."

"Suzuki made it clear that the current difficulties for the team were caused by the non-payment of major sponsor SS United last year, which put the team on the back foot regarding their financial situation. "The team competed against the many car manufacturer-backed teams and have succeeded in obtaining the first points after only the 22nd race finishing in ninth place overall in the 2007 constructors' championship.
"However, the breach of contract by the promised partner SS United Oil & Gas Company resulted in the loss of financial backing and immediately put the team into financial difficulties. Also, the change in direction of the environment surrounding the team, in terms of the use of customer chassis, has affected our ability to find partners."


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67170

[Adam43]

The thread on the F1 aspect of this story is here: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106368

Maybe they will come to Sportscar?

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Congratulations. Your STARTING to understand Big league F1 racing.

Despite my youth (if you call 37 young) I knew that already, however stick and ball are a bit different and being the only profitable stick and ball sport in Europe is Football, people looking to get rich off motorsports seems like a bit of oxymoron.

Possible but not likely and really only achieved through diversify.

Making money from selling your F1 team is Uncle Bernie's fault for making it possible to do such a thing, meaning you can be like some of the sorry NFL teams and don't care about winning or being competitive.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by RaiseYourFist

More people see backmarkers in F1 then front runners in sportscars because sportscar racing has just not been that popular lately, for casual people atleast.

True in terms of raw viewing figures, but, for example, Jaguars F1 program has been wiped from most peoples memories it was such a disaster, it's their Le Mans exploits that people, even casual watchers, recall.

F1's only viable for those manufactures/teams/sponsors who can achieve podiums on a regular basis and see their future in the far east/Asia.

[Nordic]

The only way a F1 team would crossover to another formula is if someone else pays for it or the team has enough of a cash pot to dip into.

When a team is in decline then it is not in a fiscal postion to design, develop and build a car, something that would take at least 12 months.

Super Auguri would not be in any sort of postion to pay suppliers or staff if they wanted to switch. The only chance would be if Honda threw them a lifeline and let them run either in the JGTC or the rumored Aucua P1 program both very remote options I feel.

[Svierge]

This is a subject I've pondered a few times. The level of resources of even the smallest F1 teams dwarf all non-factory sportscar teams.

It's not that simple though, of course. As well as the things already mentioned, such as the financiers, F1 teams are bound by the Concorde Agreement which, if memory serves, lasts for 10 years at a time. Once you've signed up there's pretty much no escape unless you sell out (as per Minardi, Jag etc) or go bankrupt. Teams can build other cars for other championships in addition to their F1 exploits, but not instead of.

The case of Williams is an interesting one, certainly in recent times, as they only built extra cars for the manufacturers who were supplying their F1 engines...

[RaiseYourFist]

Originally Posted by Nordic

The only way a F1 team would crossover to another formula is if someone else pays for it or the team has enough of a cash pot to dip into.

When a team is in decline then it is not in a fiscal postion to design, develop and build a car, something that would take at least 12 months.

Super Auguri would not be in any sort of postion to pay suppliers or staff if they wanted to switch. The only chance would be if Honda threw them a lifeline and let them run either in the JGTC or the rumored Aucua P1 program both very remote options I feel.

Mr. Aguri Suzuki already owns a part of the NSX ARTA team that competes in JGTC so he still has ties wth Honda and i dont think Acura would really want to run another car, as all 2008 teams will probably move with Acura next year in P1.