Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing > 24 Heures du Mans

View Poll Results: Worst Winner at Le Mans (overall)
Bentley EXP Speed 8 11 18.33%
Dauer Porsche 962/GT1 32 53.33%
1952 Merc 300SL 5 8.33%
1975 Mirage-Ford 4 6.67%
1980 Rondeau 5 8.33%
1991 Mazda 787 3 5.00%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 5 Jul 2005, 12:29 (Ref:1347660)   #1
cybersdorf
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Austria
Vienna, Austria
Posts: 3,580
cybersdorf should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcybersdorf should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Worst sportscar ever to win Le Mans

Since we are going through another "book of records" phase, which car that has won the 24 Hours deserved it the least?

For me, there is one clear winner: the Aud-... ahem, Bentley EXP Speed 8.
cybersdorf is offline  
__________________
Oops
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 12:46 (Ref:1347682)   #2
Fab
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Fab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
European Union
Hicksville...
Posts: 9,482
Fab has a real shot at the championship!Fab has a real shot at the championship!Fab has a real shot at the championship!Fab has a real shot at the championship!Fab has a real shot at the championship!Fab has a real shot at the championship!
A non deserved - or at least less deserved victory at LM ? Mmm, tough question...

Have we to be logical, or are biased opinions allowed there ?

Hawthorn/Bueb in 1955 ? Note that I don't answer the question... the car is not in cause there...
Fab is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 12:49 (Ref:1347684)   #3
Pete Fenelon
Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
York
Posts: 419
Pete Fenelon should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Mirage-Ford in '75. Their only real competition was the pair of Ligier coupes, which weren't really in the same league, and some old 908s... The '75 Le Mans grid looks like an oversubscribed clubbie meeting...

Or the Dauer 962 - a car which was (IMHO) so far outside the spirit of the rules that if it <b>didn't</b> win there should've been an outrage.
Pete Fenelon is offline  
__________________
--
there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 12:52 (Ref:1347690)   #4
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,518
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Biased opinions are absolutely allowed Fab......

Agree with you Pete - the Dauer 962 - a prototype 962 allowed to run as a GT. As far as I'm concerned, it brought disgrace on the ACO. It was also a huge shame that it deprived Toyota of a deserved win.

As for the Bentley bashing, I'm definitely not of that mind. A great looking car which won the event comfortably and fairly. I don't see how that can be the worst. If so, I'm just as entitled to cite a zillion years of R8s............
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 12:57 (Ref:1347696)   #5
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,518
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I've added a poll. More cars to be added as and when you post 'em!
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 12:59 (Ref:1347700)   #6
Pete Fenelon
Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
York
Posts: 419
Pete Fenelon should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aysedasi
I've added a poll. More cars to be added as and when you post 'em!
See my post above - Mirage-Ford has to be up there!
Pete Fenelon is offline  
__________________
--
there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 13:00 (Ref:1347703)   #7
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,518
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Done Pete
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 13:15 (Ref:1347718)   #8
ensign14
Veteran
 
ensign14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
British Antarctic Territory
Deception Island
Posts: 3,809
ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!
Definitely the Dauer. Should never have been au Mans.
ensign14 is offline  
__________________
Birmingham City FC. Founded 1875. League Cup Winners 2011.
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 13:23 (Ref:1347724)   #9
lj79
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Qatar
Posts: 517
lj79 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Bentley for me. 2003 was a load of contrived nonsense, utterly boring race and Wallace / Butch and EVdP were removed from the squad.
lj79 is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 13:29 (Ref:1347730)   #10
AMT
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 94
AMT should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybersdorf
Since we are going through another "book of records" phase, which car that has won the 24 Hours deserved it the least?

For me, there is one clear winner: the Aud-... ahem, Bentley EXP Speed 8.
Whoah .... if you knew more about that car, you'd know that the only significant Audi input was the bit that looked like a 30-year old DFV with two hairdriers strapped to it, some of the race team, and a bucketload of cash. The car itself very much NOT an Audi, which led to some friction as I understand it

How can a car which IIRC broke the records for distance covered and least time in the pits figure in this poll?

The correct answer is the Dauer of course ...
AMT is offline  
__________________
OTBC
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 13:31 (Ref:1347733)   #11
Pete Fenelon
Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
York
Posts: 419
Pete Fenelon should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Talking of the EXP-8, there were fairly persistent rumours that some of the early chassis testing was done with a non-Audi normally-aspirated V8 - possibly a Cossie of some description. Anyone able to substantiate this?
Pete Fenelon is offline  
__________________
--
there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 13:33 (Ref:1347734)   #12
Pete Fenelon
Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
York
Posts: 419
Pete Fenelon should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMT
The car itself very much NOT an Audi, which led to some friction as I understand it
Given where RTN came from- it used to be Toms - how deep do you have to go under the green to find some red and white? Wonder if there's any sketches of the same concept as a Toyota?
Pete Fenelon is offline  
__________________
--
there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 14:40 (Ref:1347813)   #13
cybersdorf
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Austria
Vienna, Austria
Posts: 3,580
cybersdorf should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcybersdorf should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMT
How can a car which IIRC broke the records for distance covered and least time in the pits figure in this poll?
Because it was an utterly soulless marketing exercise. Always in my opinion of course. Whoever decided to build a perfectly capable racecar and then not put it to use does not deserve much credit - anyone can win Le Mans by throwing, as you say, bucketloads of cash at it - but then what? "No we don't want to race it anywhere because we MIGHT not win" - that's cheating I think. And, "paint it green and the British fans are happy" - That's underestimating the British fans, no?

In my book, the Bentley EXPs are the all-time corporate "low" at Le Mans - to date...

Anyway the Dauer in and for itself probably wasn't much better, but as a small sub-chapter of the 962's long history, it has its charm.
cybersdorf is offline  
__________________
Oops
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 15:15 (Ref:1347874)   #14
paul-collins
Veteran
 
paul-collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Canada
Mosport on a good day
Posts: 5,147
paul-collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridpaul-collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridpaul-collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybersdorf
And, "paint it green and the British fans are happy" - That's underestimating the British fans, no?
Is it?

I have to agree about the cowardly way to (not) race, though. In a sense it reminds me of BMW although at least in 2000 they ran the cars over here. (I guess that boils down to "if they don't run at Mosport I don't care...")

I can't take Bentley seriously as a car, particularly when it was revealed that they had trick tires not supplied to anyone else, and the distance record they set was broken the very next year by a restricted (and undeveloped from the previous year) Audi on the same trick tires.
paul-collins is offline  
__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean?

-Bill James
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 15:19 (Ref:1347880)   #15
John Turner
Race Official
Veteran
 
John Turner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Pontesbury, Shropshire
Posts: 13,203
John Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
I think that any driver or car that gets to the end of the Le Mans 24 hours in first place has to deserve it really, but I accept this is a bit of fun. In which case the most obvious candidate for me is the 1952 Mercedes 300SL win. They weren't fast enough and completely lucked in to their victory. The C-types should have won had they not messed about with their front bodywork to increase their speed when they were quite fast enough already, and all overheated early on because the new bodywork failed to allow enough cold air to the engine. The Gordini of Behra and Manson was also faster than the Mercs but retired with seized brakes, as was the Talbot Lago which was miles ahead until the 23rd hour (missed gear, but not necessarily Levegh's fault) and 6 out of the 7 Ferraris retired! I have nothing against Mercs, by the way, but this truly was a lucky victory.
John Turner is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 15:24 (Ref:1347884)   #16
isynge
Veteran
 
isynge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
United Kingdom
London, UK
Posts: 2,975
isynge is going for a new world record!isynge is going for a new world record!isynge is going for a new world record!isynge is going for a new world record!isynge is going for a new world record!isynge is going for a new world record!isynge is going for a new world record!isynge is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybersdorf
Because it was an utterly soulless marketing exercise...
I'd go so far as to say all motorsports is, to one extent or another, a marketing exercise, and to that extent it's surprising that Bentley didn't go on and run the cars, at least for the rest of the season - a close fought campaign would have done wonders for building the profile of Bentley as a sports car (pushing the Continental GT) and probably wouldn't have hurt Audi (keeping it in the VW family).

Certainly they talked it up well in the run up to Le Mans 03, with Bentley commenting after the test day "We know how fast Audi did go, we don't know how fast they can go...".

Personally, I could understand them not competing between Sebring and Le Mans and choosing to test instead, but I was staggered when they went off to a museum rather than heading off to round out the ALMS season.
isynge is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 16:18 (Ref:1347937)   #17
Pete Fenelon
Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
York
Posts: 419
Pete Fenelon should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
> I was staggered when they went off to a museum

I'm kind of amazed that they couldn't find a home - at least until this year's 24 Hours - with a favoured customer team. Audi got their hat-trick with the R8; it would've been more interesting to farm the EXPs out to (say) Goh and Champion and let them duke it out for the '04 and '05 wins. The R8 appeals to purists, people who know sports car racing pretty well. The Bentley was something that you spotted casual gearheads taking an interest in...

I'm not sure what's more impressive - five wins and a third in six years, or two hat-tricks with very different cars

Last edited by Pete Fenelon; 5 Jul 2005 at 16:20. Reason: factual error - fixed!
Pete Fenelon is offline  
__________________
--
there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 17:52 (Ref:1348022)   #18
cybersdorf
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Austria
Vienna, Austria
Posts: 3,580
cybersdorf should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcybersdorf should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Fenelon
I'm kind of amazed that they couldn't find a home - at least until this year's 24 Hours - with a favoured customer team.
They weren't looking for one!
cybersdorf is offline  
__________________
Oops
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 20:13 (Ref:1348158)   #19
The Badger
Veteran
 
The Badger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location:
Innsbruck , Austria
Posts: 13,763
The Badger has a real shot at the podium!The Badger has a real shot at the podium!The Badger has a real shot at the podium!The Badger has a real shot at the podium!
Must be that vile Rondeau !!!
The Badger is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 21:05 (Ref:1348228)   #20
jhansen
Veteran
 
jhansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
United States
California
Posts: 6,699
jhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Well, I voted for the Dauer.

As for Bentley, I don't find that situation any different from the Toyota GT-One effort. Well, there is one difference, the Bentley actually won Le Mans. If Bentley would have raced Sebring, Le Mans, and Petit each year, I could have respected them more.
jhansen is offline  
__________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 21:54 (Ref:1348281)   #21
MulsanneMike
Veteran
 
MulsanneMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
United States
Posts: 1,831
MulsanneMike has a real shot at the podium!MulsanneMike has a real shot at the podium!MulsanneMike has a real shot at the podium!MulsanneMike has a real shot at the podium!
Here is a controversial pick...how about the Mazda 787B? Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of their 1991 win. But beyond Le Mans the car was not that stellar (and admittedly had a nice helping of beneficial regulations at Le Mans that year).
MulsanneMike is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2005, 23:17 (Ref:1348332)   #22
jhansen
Veteran
 
jhansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
United States
California
Posts: 6,699
jhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
That's actually a very good observation MM. I was thinking about this the other day. The winning car was something like 19th on the grid and won on the back of reliability and mileage. The Saubers and Jags were the more complete cars and the Peugeots were on the rise.
jhansen is offline  
__________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein
Quote
Old 6 Jul 2005, 06:48 (Ref:1348501)   #23
John Turner
Race Official
Veteran
 
John Turner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Pontesbury, Shropshire
Posts: 13,203
John Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameJohn Turner will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aysedasi
I've added a poll. More cars to be added as and when you post 'em!
Ayse, can you add the 1952 Merc 300SL, 1980 Rondeau and 1991 Mazda 787 to the poll as per our posts, please?
John Turner is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Jul 2005, 08:27 (Ref:1348554)   #24
Nordic
Veteran
 
Nordic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
England
West Sussex
Posts: 2,133
Nordic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I am not sure how you can say there has ever been a bad winner of Le Mans. All the cars start with the same chance of winning, so what if a car starts 19th on the grid, maybe if the other 'faster' or 'more complete' cars ahead on the grid had put more thought into running the race, then one of them would have won.


Even the Dauer 962 had to overcome the might of Toyota to win, in some respects that makes it a great car.

What you can say they have been winners who have beneifted from others being involved in crashes of other cars, and some cars that should not have been alllowed on the entry list (Dauer), but even that car was within the rules, just not the sprit. (A bit like the MC12)
Nordic is offline  
__________________
Some people will tell you that slow is good - and it may be, on some days - but I am here to tell you that fast is better.
H S Thompson 1937 - 2005
Quote
Old 6 Jul 2005, 12:54 (Ref:1348733)   #25
paul-collins
Veteran
 
paul-collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Canada
Mosport on a good day
Posts: 5,147
paul-collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridpaul-collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridpaul-collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
John, I added your suggestions and took off the Jag as no one had voted for it.
paul-collins is offline  
__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean?

-Bill James
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[LM24] Best Sportscar Never to win Le Mans vs346 24 Heures du Mans 76 22 May 2015 19:31
The Worst Sportscar Effort? lj79 Sportscar & GT Racing 79 12 Jul 2005 08:37
[LM24] Worst Le Mans... lj79 24 Heures du Mans 43 1 Jun 2005 10:41
[LM24] Le Mans Series and Sportscar Racer Speedworx 24 Heures du Mans 20 6 Feb 2002 03:55
[LM24] The Worst Car at Le Mans Aysedasi 24 Heures du Mans 40 5 Jan 2002 11:57


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.