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Old 15 Apr 2002, 03:55 (Ref:260638)   #26
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I was quite suprised too since they have developed the engine for motogp but instead went to wsbk...to my knowledge because petronas wanted someone experienced and have the know how to manage the team and foggy was the best that is available and he knows wsbk very well. Furthermore with the homologation rules...80% of it's spec will be used for the road version and it's a win win situation for both parties. Apart from entering races, in return Petronas will get to sell road versions as well from the partnership.
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Old 15 Apr 2002, 12:08 (Ref:260952)   #27
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racer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridracer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think that if WSBK can get through 2003, with the rule changes coming for 2004, then it will be ok. Ducati will be there next year, as will Foggy Petronas, Aprilia have said they are committed to the series, Depending on what Edwards wants to do Honda might stay, and if they do something to even up the 4s vs V Twins, then there could be a slight hope that Suzuki & Kawasaki may stay. If they can get through to 2004, with the new rules, then things should be ok.

One thing they should do is decreed that all bikes must be kitted bikes rather than purpose built, that would cut down some costs.
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Old 15 Apr 2002, 12:41 (Ref:261001)   #28
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f1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Suzuki are most likely gone after Sugo if current rumour and innuendo is to be taken seriously while it's not even worth Kawasaki being there anywhere. They've had the same bike now for years and haven't done anything impressive in quite a while either.

If Honda, Aprilia and Foggy stay, then the series has the faint hope of survival. But Honda staying will depend if Edwards wants a crack at MotoGP. He's been wanting to change for a while now, but has hesitated.
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Old 16 Apr 2002, 15:59 (Ref:262265)   #29
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QUIT THIS TALK... of WSB disbanding! The thought send shivers up my spine. This is the first I have heard of this. Is this just speculation? Or is there any substance?

WSB is the best motor-racing period.
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Old 16 Apr 2002, 21:51 (Ref:262560)   #30
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Airhead should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAirhead should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Redneck I agree totally. The best motor racing I can get to see, there may be better, but I haven't seen it.

But once the manufacturers are gone...
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Old 16 Apr 2002, 22:49 (Ref:262613)   #31
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yeah, once the manufactors are gone itll be like the ama 750 superstock :/ nothing but a flock of 750 suzukis
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Old 17 Apr 2002, 00:46 (Ref:262669)   #32
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f1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Most likely WSB will take a major backstep, become a fleet of Ducati 996s and only travel around Europe.

But really, you should have been expecting this since the new MotoGP rules were first brought out and the first bikes tested. There is not enough room for two classes of Superbike (which is essentially what MotoGP will become) competition.
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Old 17 Apr 2002, 03:45 (Ref:262707)   #33
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djb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Now here's a thought. If the gp 4 strokers turn out to be overpowering all season, any chance of the 2 strokers getting a cc increase, 50 or 75 to make up the difference? Or is this counter productive for the manufacturers who want to develop only the 4 strokes for the real world marketing side, especially if 2 strokes are to be doomed in the real world.

I realize that this is an old topic, gp vs wsbk in terms of which one will survive-or rather, why would wsbk survive if the 2 strokes go the way of the dodo.

so what d'ya think, any chance of the 500's getting any more cc life breathed into them reg wise?

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Old 17 Apr 2002, 04:35 (Ref:262718)   #34
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as much as i dont like the fact, no. manufactors are supporting the 4 stroke rules. just look at yamaha, honda, suzuki, and aprilia already have bikes entered. plus ducati and kawasaki are prepairing bikes. theres rumours of the kr3 going 4 stroke next year too

i might happen if there is enough strong interest in keeping 2 strokes in the gp1, but, i dont think you and i are enough. :\
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Old 17 Apr 2002, 05:03 (Ref:262722)   #35
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Only manufacturer who is pushing hard is Ducati, others seem to give up already... or ready to leave?! that's big element of making wsb boring. Rossi may dominate in gp this year, but it's different level of boredoom as i know others are deadly serious and working hard. so i can have a hope that someday they catch up with honda and may surprise us. this element is lacking in wsb as other manufacturers lost their interest and are too busy for their gp business.
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Old 17 Apr 2002, 07:22 (Ref:262749)   #36
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f1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
If WSB lose Bayliss to the Ducati MotoGP effort and Edwards (finally!) picks up and moves to Honda MotoGP, WSB will struggle simply because they are the two best riders out there by far.

As for djbs question, the reason for the rule changes concerning MotoGP was to get rid of 500cc motorcycles. The manufacturers saw no need in racing these, as they are not really bikes bought on the road anymore and thus racing prototype superbikes would be more beneficial to the corporate minds.

IMO there will not be any 500cc bikes left on the grid in 2003. By that time all the manufacturers should have enough bikes for everyone.
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Old 17 Apr 2002, 09:01 (Ref:262795)   #37
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Airhead should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAirhead should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally posted by f1manoz

As for djbs question, the reason for the rule changes concerning MotoGP was to get rid of 500cc motorcycles. The manufacturers saw no need in racing these, as they are not really bikes bought on the road anymore and thus racing prototype superbikes would be more beneficial to the corporate minds.
Absolutely correct f1bloke. But, imagine the commotion when the two strokes arrived to take over from the fours in the seventies. It is just history repeating itself with the roles reversed.

The thing I found interesting was Mick Doohan calling for the fours stroke formula over the last three years. He has been dancing to Hondas tune. Which for such a champion is somewhat demeaning. This is just my perception I hasten to add, in case Michael is reading this.
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Old 17 Apr 2002, 16:09 (Ref:263211)   #38
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The introduction of 2 stokes in the 70's didn't carry with it the change to the size of the engine, and hence a name change, "500cc", and any significant break in tradition.

Mick has been saying for a while that 'you can't develop a lawnmower engine beyond a certain point' and I tend to agree with that. I guess it doesn't hurt Mick either that the 500cc records will have his name at the top of a few lists.

I do however, share Barry Sheene's complaint about the silencing of 4 stroke engines. They sound pretty ordinary to me. I'd love to hear em with open pipes.

My only other complaint is the uglyness of the honda 4 stroke, somethinng needs to be done about that terrible looking fairing!! It is obviouly just a marketing too, i guess Honda believe they have to power to spare just punch thou' the air. But the fact that Rossi himself (appaently) has been complaining how hard it is too hold on to the handlebars (due to the wind) makes me think that it will thankfully soon be gone.
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Old 17 Apr 2002, 17:06 (Ref:263272)   #39
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After giving this more thought, I do not think the WSB would be disbanded. It is the showcase for manufacturer's production bikes. None of the MotoGP bikes have any direct ties to what the manufacturers build. They are highly specialized prototypes. Manufacturers would have no where to display their R&D abilities with the equipment that they sell on the show room floor. There is something neat about being able to buy (if my wallet was bigger) a Testaretta powered Ducati, which is surprisingly close to what Ducati Corse uses. That is the marketing appeal for WSB.

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Old 17 Apr 2002, 17:30 (Ref:263308)   #40
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what about local superbike championships?
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Old 18 Apr 2002, 04:55 (Ref:263661)   #41
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f1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
But WSB might have no choice about disbandment, particularly if manufacturer drops to a certain point. At the moment, the only certain manufacturers for 2003 are Ducati and Aprilia while Honda are probably going to wait and see what Edwards chooses to do. If Edwards leaves, then most likely Honda do to.

I agree with Redneck that WSB is the showcase of production bike racing, but it's obvious to see that manufacturers want to race their prototypes and that is where most of the money is going at the moment.

However, if the WSB does disband, I hope that the British Superbikes and the AMA gets more funding to make those the premier Superbike divisions.
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Old 18 Apr 2002, 07:44 (Ref:263711)   #42
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f1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Also, for point of interest, this is now the longest thread ever in the Bike Racing forum!
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Old 18 Apr 2002, 07:56 (Ref:263714)   #43
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thats sad
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Old 18 Apr 2002, 12:52 (Ref:263911)   #44
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YAY the longest thread ever!!!
Lets have a party
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Old 18 Apr 2002, 17:54 (Ref:264161)   #45
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The longest thread eh,what was the question again?

Last edited by calcium; 18 Apr 2002 at 17:55.
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Old 18 Apr 2002, 19:07 (Ref:264207)   #46
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The whole 4-stroke thing with MotoGP was to breathe life back into the series. It almost died a few years ago, when WSB started. Purely from a marketing standpoint, WSB makes much more sense than MotoGP. But from an engineering standpoint MotoGp wins.

But we all know money will win. I think WSB is on more stable ground than MotoGP.
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Old 19 Apr 2002, 03:07 (Ref:264513)   #47
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This has been an interesting read, unfortunately, as I have mentioned in the past, I will not be around much in this area of 10/10ths because I only see the gp races on tapes that my best friend makes for me, and he lives quite a distance away. So, as a result of seeing the races weeks and weeks after they happen, (and being really keen NOT to know what happened beforehand) I resolutely avoid popping in.

Already the second gp race is in a few days, so enjoy it all of you who can see it live, and I'll miss reading and talking about it with you. Let's hope it's dry-and part of me would love to see the big-bores burn off their tires and have someone like McCoy stuff it to them at the end!

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Old 19 Apr 2002, 09:49 (Ref:264647)   #48
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Purely from a marketing standpoint, WSB makes much more sense than MotoGP. But from an engineering standpoint MotoGp wins.

But we all know money will win. I think WSB is on more stable ground than MotoGP.
Couldn't agree with you more, but as proven by the fact DORNA had it's arm twisted into changing the rules by the manufacturers, we can all tell who really wields power.....

It's the manufacturers who will decide the fate of both series by the number of participants. And at the moment, MotoGP is looking increasingly healthy with manufacturers lining up to join (unlike a few years back when only Honda, Suzuki and Yamaha showed up) while the WSBK is now looking a bit shaky (only Honda, Aprilia and Ducati - Kawasaki and Suzuki most likely on the way out.)

It will be sad for all us fans if either series did collapse.
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Old 19 Apr 2002, 10:29 (Ref:264675)   #49
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There is something neat about being able to buy (if my wallet was bigger) a Testaretta powered Ducati, which is surprisingly close to what Ducati Corse uses. That is the marketing appeal for WSB.
And I guess it works too! I am in line for a new Ducati arriving mid July this year. The Beemer is to be interned after 5 good years. Anyone out there want to buy a good K1100RS?
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Old 19 Apr 2002, 17:46 (Ref:264999)   #50
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That is very interesting. A good friend of mine bought a new Aprilia Mille last year and just traded his old Beemer in on a new one. I guess that is what you get to do with no kids.

Have you heard any test results for Duc's MotoGP bike? Who will ride at Mugello?

The showroom will dictate the race track. This could be more true with motorcycles than with auto racing. Unfortunately, in the USA we don't have two-stroke street bikes anymore (unless you smuggle it). That puts a tremendous demand on the 4-strokers. One of the most successful forms of auto racing owes a lot of credit to its connection to the showroom. I know stock cars today have little in common with the production version, but that heritage still plays a strong card for marketing.

Most of the WSB racing takes place in Europe and the connection between fans and the race bikes might be different from the USA. I know Spain is fanatical about the 125cc guys and there will probably never be any 4-strokers there. There were several other manufacturers lined up for WSB. Benelli got out some, but seems to have gone back to the drawing board. Some one mentioned Harley earlier. That would be a long shot. They seem to have lost all interest in roadracing and aren't willing to spend the money to be successful. There market just isn't affected by racing as much and they don't see the feasibility. What a shame.

Come to think of it... has anybody heard anything about 4-strokers in the other classes?

Last edited by Redneck; 19 Apr 2002 at 17:54.
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