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Old 8 Jun 2006, 19:48 (Ref:1630160)   #1
anna_blakemore
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anna_blakemore should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Car preparation standards

I was at a race meeting last weekend (wont say were as I don’t want any championship taking this personally). But is the standard of car preparation slipping? Now I have been watching racing for more years that id like to remember but seem to have noticed that the standards of preparation has really dropped, has anyone else noticed this or is it just me. Is there a reason for this?
After walking around the paddock you are seeming more and more cars with rust holding it together, mix and match paint (one I saw was painted with a brush) numbers missing and the oil leaks that seem to leave a trail half the width of the track all the way around.
Any comments?
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Old 8 Jun 2006, 19:59 (Ref:1630177)   #2
greenamex2
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greenamex2 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Racing is getting incredibly expensive + People aren't earning any more money = Less money to spend on the car
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Old 8 Jun 2006, 20:47 (Ref:1630216)   #3
216gti
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216gti should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Spot on,
Option 1. Car in the paintshop..£xxx..no racing
Option 2. £2.99 aerosol, pair of tyres, same £xxx.. go racing...No brainer!!!
It's not that I don't take pride in my car, I'm sure we all do and it would be great if every grid looked like a TOCA clone but in the real world where every penny counts.........
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Old 8 Jun 2006, 21:25 (Ref:1630239)   #4
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Anna,
I'll let you know after next month. We're going to the 'Ring to race with the German Triumphs, who have a name for not only stringent 'historic' regs, but showroom turnout. Our championship is, well, a bit less posh.

When they invited us we were a bit hesitant as we know we may not shape up to their standards, on build and finish. Rather sweetly, when we asked them if we would pass the scrutineering, the answer was, "You will be our guests - our scrutineers won't reject guests!"

Lebhaft das difference!

JOhn
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Old 8 Jun 2006, 21:41 (Ref:1630249)   #5
Locost47
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That pretty much sums it up for me too. My priorities are:

1/ make the car and myself quicker than my competitors
2/ make the car pretty (can't do much about myself there, unfortunately - am beyond help!)

I haven't got onto item 2 yet as i'm still working on item 1.

To be honest i do feel some shame about the state of my car, especially as in our category we build them ourselves, but i was told by a very experienced campaigner that one second after you tighten the last bolt you have to be prepared to chuck it all in the bin. Only that way will you push hard enough out on track to beat people. Ultimately i worry less about the cosmetics of the car because i fully expect it to end its racing career in a barrier somewhere. It's not a nice thought but perhaps just on the cynical side of pragmatic.
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Old 9 Jun 2006, 09:18 (Ref:1630464)   #6
Bob Pearson
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Anna, I think everyone has given you good explanations here for what you are seeing, except for one other factor.
As you didn't name the event, I can only mention that if it was a historic or classic event you have to bear in mind that those guys are racing on kit which, largely speaking was lifed out long ago. The longer parts are in circulation the greater the chances of damage to and distortion of sealing faces and so the graeter the chances of leaks and unreliability.
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Old 9 Jun 2006, 09:35 (Ref:1630477)   #7
Al Weyman
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Another angle.

Maybe too many out there with BTCC driving standards on the brain but without their budget. I will try to back off in a no win situation as I know how expensive it is to repair these things when you do it yourself with no sponsor.

However even that does not work sometimes and I entered an immaculate car at the last race I did to have some cretin slap into it while overtaking for qualifying and we had another 13 or so laps after that so what are some of these guys on, he was 3 or 4 seconds faster than the rest of the field in any case, does pee me off a bit especially as I am faced with a weekends work putting it right.

Anyhow the upshot is the damage may or may not be repaired when I enter for my next race on the 25th June at the Rock. All depends how much time I have but it would have been entered as an immaculate car if some drivers drove their much faster cars with a little more consideration.
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Old 9 Jun 2006, 09:48 (Ref:1630494)   #8
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Update, me mate has just kindly offered to come round at the weekend and dolly the dent out so she will be restored to pristine condition for the visit to the Rock, I'm sure you can all sleep better at night now with that knowledge
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Old 9 Jun 2006, 10:21 (Ref:1630515)   #9
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greenamex2 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I've got some oil leaks you can borrow!
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Old 9 Jun 2006, 10:25 (Ref:1630519)   #10
carsten.meurer
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carsten.meurer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
from what i have seen its not only the looks that suffer !

i had to borrow cars occasionally, and was rather surprised at the standart these good looking lower midfield cars where in !

maybe i am a bit picky, but the first thing a racecar should do is not
fall apart, secondly brake powerful and in a straight line without rattling
corners off...
then it should handle like a dream, and if you got some power that does not let you down on straights, thats a bonus.
the final iceing on the cake is a good, clean look.

i found most cars to be build by reversed standarts...

maybe the attitude has changed too ?

while people fascinated by the technical demands of a racecar prepared wunderful machines in the past, needing to take them to track on weekends,
you now have people with the wish to race - having to cope with the burden
of carrying a racecar along the way !
as budget for someone to prepare it isn't there, the build whatever the parts
in the bin allow for...

we normally spend the whole weekend turning the lookers into racers !
not long and i was offered cars to borrow... - just so we could turn them
into something worthwhile racing !
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Old 9 Jun 2006, 11:41 (Ref:1630562)   #11
glenn22481
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I frienf of mine that races in france helped out a chap by bodging together his coolant hose with a mix of cable ties, string and emergancy hose repair tape just to get him through the meeting after it burst, a few months past and when he saw the car again at another event it was still being held together by this 'get you out of trouble' temporary emergancy repair - all it needed was a new srtaight hose about 200mm long......

I get miffed with some competitors that pay others to have their cars prepared and when something does go wrong they dont have a clue how to repair it - even a simple task like a sump gasket change.

On my own car (that i prepare and maintain myself) if it happens to:

squeek
rattle
leeks
wobbles
looks filthy

....... it gets sorted ASAP. And if at the track - using what ever means possible.
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Old 9 Jun 2006, 12:09 (Ref:1630587)   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis Bassom
I've got some oil leaks you can borrow!
Sorry Dennis had me quota of those on the yellow car this year, dry as a bone now though thank God! Ruddy dodgy rocker gasket (so called competition, yeah right) put some standard rubberised Felpros on from a local Yank shop in Watford and perfect!

Hey I have another theory here. It seems these days no one but no one (at least the younger fraternity) works on their road cars any more, they are either to complex or the cannot be bothered to learn the skills. So then it is down to paying to have the job done and the budget is not there. At least with me I and my sorry tale I can repair it and will do all the paintwork and grahics once my panel beater mate has knocked the worse out but I wonder how many younger guys actually have the skills. Same goes for mechanicals, I do all my own work there for better or worse and if it is your neck on the line you strive to get it right. I also want my cars to look as sharp as I can get them as they represent my company as that is the only way I can justify the silly expense of this lark.

Last edited by Al Weyman; 9 Jun 2006 at 12:17.
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Old 9 Jun 2006, 12:39 (Ref:1630617)   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Weyman
Hey I have another theory here. It seems these days no one but no one (at least the younger fraternity) works on their road cars any more, they are either to complex or the cannot be bothered to learn the skills. So then it is down to paying to have the job done and the budget is not there.
a. Totally agree.

b. That makes you sound really old as it is no doubt what you grandparents said about your generation!

c. The ones that do know something about cars learnt it nicking them!
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Old 9 Jun 2006, 16:55 (Ref:1630715)   #14
Al Weyman
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Dennis your dad who helps you is probably around my age (58 next month) but when we were young kids in the 50's living on a council estate we used to build Trollys (like soap karts I think the yanks called them) from old prame wheels and scaffold board, we built bikes from old bits of scrap we found, I even bulit a tandem and one based on a moped frame with suspension. Then when we moved on to motorbikes at around 15 we pulled them apart and put them back together same with cars as soon as we wer 17. In fact I had been working as a mechanic for about two years then. Today its Playstations and internet and cyber stuff and nothing is real hands on practical stuff. I am generalising here and I know there are many exceptions to the rule but just a theory, good luck over the weekend at Lydden as well, give you a good chance to check out some alternative scenes.
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Old 9 Jun 2006, 18:24 (Ref:1630749)   #15
Tim Falce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Weyman
Hey I have another theory here. It seems these days no one but no one (at least the younger fraternity) works on their road cars any more, they are either to complex or the cannot be bothered to learn the skills. So then it is down to paying to have the job done and the budget is not there.
I agree there Al, I was told that someone had invested ÂŁ150K in a racing XJS and I was a bit confused how you could spend that amount of money on an XJS. It was then pointed out that if I worked out how much I had spent on my car and then added my labour charges it wouldn't be hard to get near those sort of figures.
I do all my own work on my car, I built it myself and have developed it over the years. The only thing I wouldn't do was paint it but after I was punted off at Brands earlier in the year I have now started doing the spraying myself as my regular painter has priced himself out of a job.
It wasn't as hard as I thought and the results are quite impressive, even if I say so myself, apart from the runs underneath
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Old 9 Jun 2006, 18:45 (Ref:1630760)   #16
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Spraying is not at all difficult, just get preparation right, do not be in too much of a hurry to get a finish and dust a few build up coats, then give it a good un once it has tacked off. Invest in a very good charcoal filter mask and spend no more than 10 minutes in there max better still get an inline resperator system as two packs will kill you, they nearly did me when they first came out! :-(
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Old 9 Jun 2006, 19:53 (Ref:1630807)   #17
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The fact that it is two pack is why I have kept well away from it up till now. I only did a small area and made sure I had a good mask and it was well ventilated (I was in a gazebo stuck on the end of my garage in February)
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Old 9 Jun 2006, 19:57 (Ref:1630811)   #18
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The modern charcoal masks with a bit of vaseline (no comments please you lot) around the lip and you will not even smell the fumes they are excellent.
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Old 10 Jun 2006, 11:00 (Ref:1631093)   #19
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COLIN STUBBS should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
heyup. have a gleg at the racing 70s website and look at some of the pics we put on from our younger years.... id say more folks had the paintbrush out in those days!!!
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Old 11 Jun 2006, 19:34 (Ref:1631867)   #20
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i personally pay for all my mechanical ,suspension work as i feel it gives me piece of mind to pay some body who knows what they are doing and have a degree of a reliability on race day, but i spend more ,time money on the appearance some times upto 5 full days before race day on cleaning making new spoilers wheel archs i even take the engine out to clean the engine bay i no im sad but i do like to see a tidy car http://www.whatnonegatives.com/2006/...onegatives.htm
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Old 11 Jun 2006, 21:04 (Ref:1631924)   #21
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Well just having spent the whole of a sweltering and i have only just finished at 9.30pm removing wings, knocking dent out and falling out wiith my neighbour (again and still not finished), redoing the exhaust with an extra silencer (failed the breath test at Brands!) and setting all the corner weights up, roll bars etc I am knackered and I have to get up to work in the morning, it aint fun sometimes.

Andy thats a hell of a little car for a big man!
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Old 12 Jun 2006, 07:56 (Ref:1632182)   #22
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Big Andy, how do you know that they know what they are doing? How do you know they haven't taken on a new guy who doesn't have a clue or doesn't care about your safety.
I have always worked on the belief that if we do the work we know what is in the car and we naturally strive to get it right.
I have seen plenty of people who know how to charge, but I wouldn't let them loose on a lawn mower.
It's like the common belief that one should always have the engine and gearbox built by a recognised builder. Why!!? You don't get to watch while the work is done, it could be built by some lad who couldn't get a job anywhere else and the first you will know about it is when it all lets go.

I firmly believe in getting all the relevant literature together and sitting down with a tool kit and doing it ourselves.
It is this that makes us hold back at moving into FR2000 cars when just about everything has to be brought built and sealed. It could have been built by the mechanic from hell for all we know.
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Old 12 Jun 2006, 08:21 (Ref:1632209)   #23
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Bob, that's a bit harsh. Following that line of reasoning I trust you never go to the doctor because it's all on the internet, home surgery must be a doddle!

Facetious? Well, not really, my mechanical skills are right down there with my surgical skills and I prefer to trust someone who knows what they're doing. I reckon I could make just as big a hash of engine rebuilds as sewing up a cut finger, although admittedly possibly less serious consequences ;-)

How do I know they know what they're doing? Well, it's thanks to fora like this one - reputation does count for a lot you know. I ask around in my chosen championships, see who's doing the business.

Count yourself lucky if you have time, facilities, skills and inclination to do things yourself, that may be a minority of people. Or maybe it's people like me who are in the minority......
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Old 12 Jun 2006, 08:31 (Ref:1632214)   #24
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Yes I can agree with both comments and although I knacker a bit easier these days (God I'm stiff this morning), I do have a fine large porpose built workshop (that is the main requirement that many do not have, a lot of tools and equipment and accumulative knowledge over the years and have done the job for a living in the past, but I know people who could not change a spare wheel so I guess it takes all sorts.
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Old 12 Jun 2006, 17:30 (Ref:1632686)   #25
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Perhaps if race meeting organisers offered a prize - say a free race entry - to the best turned out car in each race, then we'd all try a bit harder on that paint job.... Fact is, when a sponsor is paying for the car and the paint and the graphics, and the experts to sort them out, then its real easy to have an immaculate car. For the rest of us, all that money disappears in basic mechanical and safety stuff (who said Hans device?) and the heafty price of entering races these days... ain't much left for prettyness :-(
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