2011 Bathurst 12 Hour

[Belly13]

I will begin by stating that regardless of which types of car run at the 12 Hour, I'd be there with bells on. Regardless, 20+ GT cars is a good start. If people remember the 2002 24 Hour there was only something like only 6 or 7 GT cars, which then doubled the following year. I agree with a comment made earlier in the thread, 2012 will be the 'make-or-break' year for the race.
More proddies would be good, may not be essential next year. They had their chance to compete this year and didn't take it. And before people start with the 'we only entered to win' attitude, how many cars really had a chance for a race win in 2009 or 2010?
Can't wait for it, should be good, bring it on!!!

[Sheep Stations]

[QUOTE=racer69;2814068]


What has the EC race got to do with the Bathurst 12hr??

Poor EC numbers proves that as a category prods are a one-trick pony...and when they couldn't be top bill at 2011 B12hr most of them chucked the usual wobbly.

[alfacors]

Poor EC numbers reflected the fact that the race was not part of the Australian Manufacturers Championship (it is however a round in 2011), and the fact the race was announced late after everyone had committed themselves to the entire season already. A few guys had enough cash to run the race in addition, but most did not. The 6 Hour at Eastern Creek in July had a field twice the size of the 8 Hour, with only a few cars entered in both.

[James69181]

The main reason there is so few production cars is safety !
The issue with production cars on spec R tyres and GT's on slicks at any race track is the speed difference under brakes and corner speed. The straight line speed is no biggy and I know of a couple of production teams that wanted to run on slicks to take out the danger across the top of the mountain.
Proddy cars was growing (there are 2 Focus 500's being built) even though you had to spend $180K on an EVOX if you wanted to win outright.

[Oldtony]

SS that is a very unfair summary of the prodcar reaction.
I'm all for a 12hr GT race, and if I can get there I will be there even if it turns out to be a "Porsche Fest".
The problem is that the prodcar build up was being aimed a producing an ongoing event backed by a series with the backing of trade, dealer and importers. That means to justify the preperation and running cost they needed almost total cost recovery from sponsorship.
The GTs and Porsche series are mostly in a rather different position regarding funding. In most cases they are almost totaly funded by the entrant or the business the entrant owns. The results anmd exposure, while very nice to have, are not critical to the ongoing support and funding.
Thus a procar entrant needs to run somewhere near the pointy end of the field. With the GTs there that is not possible and therefor not entering is a very rational business decision.
There is a market for both a GT 12hr and a production 12hr. but combining the two is a death wish for both.

[Belly13]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

There is a market for both a GT 12hr and a production 12hr. but combining the two is a death wish for both.

That would be good to see. Perhaps that is the intention of Yeeyah Events which run the 12 Hour, and now the Easter weekend. Imagine in a few years having a 12 Hour GT race in February and then a 12 Hour Production car event at Easter, or vice versa. Perhaps this could be Yeeyah's aim for the future?

[mtpanorama]

They should have left the 12hr regs as they were with a production car event.
The organisers then should have invited the gt cars for 4hr race on saturday, if the GT field was well supported they could have looked at extending the race next year to a 6 0r 8 hour and built on it from there.

[6.213km]

...... when has the 12 hour ever had "main stream" interest.

Production Cars, or GT Cars in this country are niche.

Its just that GT cars are better to watch.

Production Cars in the 1960's were relevant - but lets face it, what other tin top cars were there to go and see @ Bathurst? Maybe the odd Easter meeting.

A "production car" race in Australia is NEVER EVER EVER going to attract manufacturer interest. We are 20 million people as has been pointed out.

Will we see International GT entries in a good GT Race in the future ? Maybe. Better if it was part of an international championship .. going to happen .. possibly. I'm just a spectator, but John Bowe summed it up pretty well last year when he said its pretty disappointing more manufacturers dont get behind the bloody thing.

So what do you do, open it up to GT cars, try you hardest to get more interest as time goes on and see how it goes.

The event itself is viable - it has strong support catagories - its not too big for its boots. The problem with B24 was it tried to grow to quickly and a thing called a Monaro put others off.

Ill say it again - its not 1965 people, you wont ever get a crowd to Bathurst to watch an Evo. You'll get people like me who love the race and the place, and a smattering of the general public.

Difference this year, is a lot of the same people will turn up to watch - but they'll be treated to cars that are exciting to see.

The other point is there is a lot of people with their names down to drive GT cars this year that were in the lead production cars last year. I feel for teams that invested in Production Cars like Evos with the dream of an outright placing. But as has been mentioned before, there might have been 10+ Evos last year, but most of them were outdriven by a big fat station wagon with rear wheel drive.... shows that just because you have a quick All wheel drive car, doesnt mean your ever going to have a chance of winning.

[pplater]

I must say I’m a little disappointed at some of the sentiments in here. What do you guys want to see?

My perfect race meet is something like Le Mans, with a selection of the world’s best drivers (McNish, Kristensen, Sarrazin, Bourdais, Brabham etc) driving an array of high-powered exotic machinery for at least one lap of the clock.

I’ve been to all the post-2000 12 and 24 hour races at Bathurst, several Procar / Shannons / GT rounds, the Grand Prix and more V8 Supercar meetings than I care to count and must say that GT cars at the the Bathurst 24 hour events presented the most intoxicating motorsport spectacle I’ve witnessed.

The driving standard brought by the category -along with exhaust flames, searing exhaust notes, and difference in engineering approaches- are yet to be topped by anything I’ve seen before or since. Seriously.

What I wouldn’t give to see John Bowe flogging that black 360GT after a 1am engine change back in 2002. I was on top of the mountain at the time, and can still remember hearing that awesome machine scorch through Reid Park before its XXL driving lights popped over the crest to Sulman and McPhillamy. Spine, chilled.

I honestly think YeeHah are doing their best to make a go of the 12 hour, and are trying to make it the best spectacle possible. No, the proddy crowd doesn’t like it. Yes, they deserve their own marquee event.

But in my opinion the allure of exotic machinery at one of the world’s best racetracks is likely to give me the race I want to see (elite drivers in elite cars at Mount Panorama) and is a very exciting prospect for 2011 and beyond.

This year’s race is set to be a cracker, and is close to what my perfect event would be. You’ve got some of the best drivers around (Lowndes, Owen, Simonsen) in spectacular machines with six, eight, ten and twelve cylinders.

If you’re not thrilled by the prospect of those guys going hammer and tongs at Mount Panorama, hand over your enthusiast card because IMO this is the best thing going in 2011.

[Oldtony]

Fair comment pplater. The GT event will be great, and if this flood is not too big an economic and time problem to me I'll be there.
From my point of view the GTs and the Prodcars are not really a viable mix. The performance level is just too different, multiplied by the tyre regs putting the GTs on slicks while the prodcars are on roadable tyres. As you say they both deserve there own events.
And 6.123, they might not get a crowd to Bathurst to watch Evo's, but they certainly could get a crowd to Bathurst to watch a properly promoted street relevant production car event. Remember that is what the whole thing grew out of before it was high-jacked by the V8 thing.
To me the ideal is dump the October Boganfest and use that weekend for a genuine production event. In the 60's and 70's the Bathurst event revoloutionised the Australian Auto industry. We were building world class cars here because of the need to build practical cars that handled, stopped and survived. With the globalisation of vehicle building those days may never return, but there is still a level of Australian expertise being used all over the world that needs to be nutured and maintained.
We wont develop or maintain that racing KitKars.

[GTRMagic]

So will Mr Lowndes get a run in an R18 for Le Mans if he wins the Bathurst 12 Hour?

[Reload]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

So will Mr Lowndes get a run in an R18 for Le Mans if he wins the Bathurst 12 Hour?

Would be the plan.
The R18 is a smick looking bit of gear

[rich07]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

So will Mr Lowndes get a run in an R18 for Le Mans if he wins the Bathurst 12 Hour?

Would be nice, shame he never ran in the Panoz at Adelaide.

Originally Posted by pplater

But in my opinion the allure of exotic machinery at one of the world’s best racetracks is likely to give me the race I want to see (elite drivers in elite cars at Mount Panorama) and is a very exciting prospect for 2011 and beyond.

This year’s race is set to be a cracker, and is close to what my perfect event would be. You’ve got some of the best drivers around (Lowndes, Owen, Simonsen) in spectacular machines with six, eight, ten and twelve cylinders.

If you’re not thrilled by the prospect of those guys going hammer and tongs at Mount Panorama, hand over your enthusiast card because IMO this is the best thing going in 2011.

Bingo. We just need this to grow not stagnate and die.

[Reload]

Only just realised that the EC test day and the 12hr are on in successive weeks, which means that i have to give one of them a miss.
And whilst i love my V8 Supercars, it,s an easy decision with the prospect of seeing the GT cars on one of the worlds best circuits.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

So will Mr Lowndes get a run in an R18 for Le Mans if he wins the Bathurst 12 Hour?

Not sure Vodafone or T8 would appreciate him being at Le Mans whilst they were readying themselves for Darwin the weekend after. (LM24 is June 11/12 this year, with Darwin V8's the following weekend.) It is all cutting it a bit fine should he get any injury. With the official test weekend for Le Mans usually in April or May, plus of course any additional testing that Audi might require him to take part in it should be noted April and May are the busiest V8 months for races with Hamilton, Ipswich and Winton in that period.

Not to mention that Audi have an already strong driver line up that will have raced the car and done extensive testing in the run up to LM. Plus Whincup will only get jealous.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by E.B

Not sure Vodafone or T8 would appreciate him being at Le Mans whilst they were readying themselves for Darwin the weekend after. (LM24 is June 11/12 this year, with Darwin V8's the following weekend.) It is all cutting it a bit fine should he get any injury. With the official test weekend for Le Mans usually in April or May, plus of course any additional testing that Audi might require him to take part in it should be noted April and May are the busiest V8 months for races with Hamilton, Ipswich and Winton in that period.

Not to mention that Audi have an already strong driver line up that will have raced the car and done extensive testing in the run up to LM. Plus Whincup will only get jealous.

Hmm.. I see no downsides at all

AA reckons its a done deal.. making it sound like the B12 is an audition..

[E.B]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

AA reckons its a done deal.. making it sound like the B12 is an audition..

I assume AA = AF (Auto Fiction) as opposed to Audi Autosport, or even Audi Australia......

[racer69]

Originally Posted by pplater

I must say I’m a little disappointed at some of the sentiments in here. What do you guys want to see?

My perfect race meet is something like Le Mans, with a selection of the world’s best drivers (McNish, Kristensen, Sarrazin, Bourdais, Brabham etc) driving an array of high-powered exotic machinery for at least one lap of the clock.

I’ve been to all the post-2000 12 and 24 hour races at Bathurst, several Procar / Shannons / GT rounds, the Grand Prix and more V8 Supercar meetings than I care to count and must say that GT cars at the the Bathurst 24 hour events presented the most intoxicating motorsport spectacle I’ve witnessed.

The driving standard brought by the category -along with exhaust flames, searing exhaust notes, and difference in engineering approaches- are yet to be topped by anything I’ve seen before or since. Seriously.

What I wouldn’t give to see John Bowe flogging that black 360GT after a 1am engine change back in 2002. I was on top of the mountain at the time, and can still remember hearing that awesome machine scorch through Reid Park before its XXL driving lights popped over the crest to Sulman and McPhillamy. Spine, chilled.

I honestly think YeeHah are doing their best to make a go of the 12 hour, and are trying to make it the best spectacle possible. No, the proddy crowd doesn’t like it. Yes, they deserve their own marquee event.

But in my opinion the allure of exotic machinery at one of the world’s best racetracks is likely to give me the race I want to see (elite drivers in elite cars at Mount Panorama) and is a very exciting prospect for 2011 and beyond.

This year’s race is set to be a cracker, and is close to what my perfect event would be. You’ve got some of the best drivers around (Lowndes, Owen, Simonsen) in spectacular machines with six, eight, ten and twelve cylinders.

If you’re not thrilled by the prospect of those guys going hammer and tongs at Mount Panorama, hand over your enthusiast card because IMO this is the best thing going in 2011.

What do i want to see.. 2010 was quite ok with me (abit more dark running perhaps though)

I was at both the 24hrs as well, and great spectacles they were. But there was a reason they unfortunatly failed (and the Monaro had nothing to do with it)

The production car 12hr was a much cheaper proposition for the competitor than a GT event will be (perhaps thats why the ludicrous pro-am driver regs are employed).

Also, as a spectator, i'm much more interested in watching a race, particularly at a track the size of Bathurst, which has a field of 40+ cars (as the proddies would have again provided) rather than a race which, given there are only 28 entries at the moment, will probably have around 25/26 taking the starters gun (i recall the massive down time, particuarly after safety cars, waiting for cars to come round during the 32-car grid 2002 24hr...)

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

So will Mr Lowndes get a run in an R18 for Le Mans if he wins the Bathurst 12 Hour?

A victory will be a tough ask given the 'interesting' rules of new cars having to do more stops than the older cars

[ff s conscience]

Originally Posted by pplater

What I wouldn’t give to see John Bowe flogging that black 360GT after a 1am engine change back in 2002. I was on top of the mountain at the time, and can still remember hearing that awesome machine scorch through Reid Park before its XXL driving lights popped over the crest to Sulman and McPhillamy. Spine, chilled.
.

You're kidding right?


we'd blown up two engines and were packing up by midnight

But yeah, it was fun....

http://aussieexotics.com/forum/racin...html#msg113001 (scroll up the page a few spots)

[ff s conscience]

So, I'll be there with the hector lester/Simonsen/Searle entry...

should be fun again, lets hope it's for the right reasons...

[6.213km]

Originally Posted by pplater

I must say I’m a little disappointed at some of the sentiments in here. What do you guys want to see?

My perfect race meet is something like Le Mans, with a selection of the world’s best drivers (McNish, Kristensen, Sarrazin, Bourdais, Brabham etc) driving an array of high-powered exotic machinery for at least one lap of the clock.

I’ve been to all the post-2000 12 and 24 hour races at Bathurst, several Procar / Shannons / GT rounds, the Grand Prix and more V8 Supercar meetings than I care to count and must say that GT cars at the the Bathurst 24 hour events presented the most intoxicating motorsport spectacle I’ve witnessed.

The driving standard brought by the category -along with exhaust flames, searing exhaust notes, and difference in engineering approaches- are yet to be topped by anything I’ve seen before or since. Seriously.

What I wouldn’t give to see John Bowe flogging that black 360GT after a 1am engine change back in 2002. I was on top of the mountain at the time, and can still remember hearing that awesome machine scorch through Reid Park before its XXL driving lights popped over the crest to Sulman and McPhillamy. Spine, chilled.

I honestly think YeeHah are doing their best to make a go of the 12 hour, and are trying to make it the best spectacle possible. No, the proddy crowd doesn’t like it. Yes, they deserve their own marquee event.

But in my opinion the allure of exotic machinery at one of the world’s best racetracks is likely to give me the race I want to see (elite drivers in elite cars at Mount Panorama) and is a very exciting prospect for 2011 and beyond.

This year’s race is set to be a cracker, and is close to what my perfect event would be. You’ve got some of the best drivers around (Lowndes, Owen, Simonsen) in spectacular machines with six, eight, ten and twelve cylinders.

If you’re not thrilled by the prospect of those guys going hammer and tongs at Mount Panorama, hand over your enthusiast card because IMO this is the best thing going in 2011.

Agreed - B24 was the best event I have attended in going to motorsport events for 20 years.

Agreed I want to see it again.

And thrilled by the prospect of Ferraris and Moslers and Audis going around for 12 hours... YES!

Bring it on.

[pplater]

Originally Posted by ff s conscience

You're kidding right?

we'd blown up two engines and were packing up by midnight

But yeah, it was fun....

http://aussieexotics.com/forum/racin...html#msg113001 (scroll up the page a few spots)

Not fun for a mechanic, but it was pretty mint for a teenager seeing a Ferrari on track for the first or second time! I loved the yowl of that thing.

I don't have any pics from 2002, but took a couple in 2003. Was my first time using a camera trackside, no laughing please!











That green Porsche is second only to top fuellers on my loudest-cars-of-all-time board. What an event though, seriously.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by pplater

That green Porsche is second only to top fuellers on my loudest-cars-of-all-time board. What an event though, seriously.

And still for sale, all those years later.. Here

[pplater]

Good grief. Given the fundery I'd buy it and tool around in the GT series. Why not?

I remember at the 24hr press conference, Brock was talking about waking up for his first stint on Sunday morning. His first thought was "That bloody green Porsche is STILL running around, then!"

[alfacors]

Some old pics from 2003 B24.... long before I started taking this photography lark a bit more seriously

http://www.pbase.com/nathanwong/bathurst_24hr