Zandvoort Holland

[F1 lobby]

Hi guys, I'm new around here, very interesting forums and great designs are posted here.
I am sure that I will find some support of you to help me out with an idea to propose an adjustment, improvement of the Zanvoort racetrack at the coastal area of the Netherlands.
As some of you may know the track is slightly outdated, mainly concerning the paddock area and safety issues but the track lay-out itself can us a change to make the track even more sensational because of the existing height differences which is caused by the dunes where it's located in.

That height difference is exactly what I want to use to make it a kind of a rollercoaster track. The newly added section which was realised in 1996 has already quite a height difference. The dream of every dutch race fan will be that some day The Netherlands can host again a Formula 1 race which was held for the last time in the 80's although now a days investment costs are sky high but we keep on dreaming and hoping for some serious investors


I purchased Bobs Track Builder but I am new to this and now I see that you guys are already experienced in creating realistic 3d visualizations so I want to ask if there is some one who like to help me with this new lay-out.
If all improvements are visualized I want to give it a try to propose the design to the CEO of the Zandvoort track called Erik Weijers.
Since Zandvoort is currently is going through a difficult phase because of some financial problems, right now is the moment to bring it back to life with a boost which will be not only from a riders point of view an exiting improvement but also for the spectators as well for the potential investors.

Here's the deal, I made a simple sketch but I will explain how it needs to be designed. All new corners have positive camber of 15 degrees and sloping highest level points at apex points to create sensational blind cornering.

We are gonna use the existing level changes of the dunes so I first explain the first new sector which creates more new paddock space:

Right after the first corner, Tarzan corner we need to put the new first section which has a total height difference of 8 meters, slightly sloped to the heighest point of the new section which is at the big U-turn, which exists actually out of two corners, the u-turn exiting to the knick. From the heighest point starting at the apex going downwards again to the "new" Hugenholz corner. The one which is actually also two left corners.

The second new section exists of a fast sloping left-right knick which climbs 10 meters upwards with the highest level point at the apex of the entry of the "Corkscrew" , to make a very steep free fall into the fast left hander which connects again to the existing track.

I estimate the length of the track adjustment at around an extra 900 meters but there are two existing corners which will be deleted so the total length will change from 4200 to approximately 4800 meters. But in Google earth it will show the exact length.

Hope it's clear enough for you to imagine what I mean with my explanations.
Feel free to ask about details and I am curious what are your thoughts about it!

[the_calculator]

First of all I have to say I really like you're design.
You've adressed the right problems wich keeps Zandvoort from getting a FIA grade 1; runoff and paddock size.
FIA regulation; "In curves, the banking (downwards from the outside to the inside of the track) should not exceed 10 percent (5,71 degrees)", 15 degrees banking won't do.


However, and I sincerely hope you prove me wrong, I don't see F1 returning for the following reasons;
- Like you said yourself; financial problems (seems to be an ongoing problem throughout Zandvoorts history)
- It's very unlikely to see another european racetrack added to the F1 calander.
- You'd have to rearrange the town of Zandvoort because traffic and public transport are horrible when even hosting todays Formula 3 events.
- I don't think environmenalists will like you're design.

I myself would like Zandvoort to upgrade it's spectator facilities.

Good luck with you're plan, hope you pull it off.

[F1 lobby]

Thanks Calculator you're totally right, I very much doubt indeed if with those improvements of the lay-out, run-offs and paddock area will get a FIA grade 1, although despite it's almost an utopia it still will be a big improvement for smaller events and national (amateur) racers.

Je spreekt gewoon nederlands neem ik aan

This version is easier to realise and still solve the problem of the lack of paddock size.

[Quintin03]

Of course, there's another option when it comes to producing paddock size at Zandvoort: filling in the area to the South. Sure, there's lakes, and dunes, and everything, but flattening this land should make it possible to produce a huge paddock the size of which dwarfs that of most tracks in Europe, especially those with paddocks enclosed in the track.
So that's what I've done instead:

and without lines so you can imagine what it'll look like easier.

First things first, I don't think the track itself needs to be changed. Besides a couple safety issues, which I attempt to resolve here, the track is great as it is. That's why I've left it as is.
The new paddock has an area well over six hectares in size for just the main paddock and the small eastern paddock adds another hectare if required. It can be accessed through a tunnel from the old paddock.
Moving the pit lane to this new paddock would allow for a pit building about as large as Le Mans provides. I'm not entirely sure on the pit exit though, so suggestions are certainly appreciated.
With this new pit lane and paddock, new opportunities arise. Most obviously two short tracks can be constructed, one utilizing the portion between the Slotemakersbocht and the entrance to the Audi-S, and one cutting off from the Hugenholtzbocht across a section of the old paddock to the exist of the Audi-S, each with their own paddock and pit lane allowing both to be used for simultaneous use. The eastern circuit would also gain a paddock, though I doubt it'd be of significance.
Two other optional changes are a cut-off at the Gerlachbocht to the Slotemakersbocht and a chicane at the exit of the Kumhobocht entering Bos Uit, both aimed at producing a safer track for motorcycles. Somewhat more mandatory would be to create run-off area at the exit of Bos Uit and at Gerlach, unless of course the motorcycle track is to become the actual layout for cars. I also considered drawing Hugenholtz inwards, but I'm not entirely certain how much is possible without really changing the track whilst simultaneously making this section significantly safer.
Anyway, all serious criticisms are appreciated.
Oh yeah, if you hadn't noticed, I'm back.

[F1 lobby]

Quintin your images aren't shown so maybe you can upload them first to get your url.

About creating paddock space which is very necessary: the only way to resize the paddock is to change the Hugenholz corner, just like I sketched in the second image, but to make the track even faster, flowing and exciting the new combination of the left-right hander upwards using the natural elevation into the corkscrew will be a thrill for drivers and spectators

[Quintin03]

Hmm, they were working when I posted.


Really, you don't need to get rid of Hugenholtz to create paddock space but your new complex is not compatible with it this solution though perhaps it would be exciting. If you've got ideas on how to turn the Audi-S into a more exciting turn though, I'd love to hear it.
Edit: now they're working again anyway. I don't know what's going on but anyway, you should be able to see the images.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Quinton, what image host are you using?

Remember you can attach images on the site, go advanced and upload the images

[Quintin03]

Well, let's try that then. For some reason I can see everything perfectly fine on my end, but I guess it's not going as well on you guys' end.

[bio]

This time it's fine.

The first time there really was a problem, I canŰ't see those two either.

But these two are fine.

bio

[F1 lobby]

Quintin you're solution is a good one but even less likely to get approved by local government because of the new paddock area on the south side which will take a quite big part of the dunes, environmentalists will complain even more. The noise will be even more close to the urban area. And more expensive to realise because a whole new pit building needs to arise. I would propose to only extend the existing pit building towards the south with a good update concerning pitboxes, hospitality rooms, press rooms, pit entry and overall looks of the building using lots of glass panels.

[Quintin03]

Originally Posted by F1 lobby

Quintin you're solution is a good one but even less likely to get approved by local government because of the new paddock area on the south side which will take a quite big part of the dunes, environmentalists will complain even more. The noise will be even more close to the urban area. And more expensive to realise because a whole new pit building needs to arise. I would propose to only extend the existing pit building towards the south with a good update concerning pitboxes, hospitality rooms, press rooms, pit entry and overall looks of the building using lots of glass panels.

I'm pretty certain environmentalists would cry even more with your extension, but you make a good point regarding cost. Nevertheless I think the value of the track as it is sufficiently offsets that. But let's work with your former point.
Putting the paddock further away behind (what seems to be) a pair of dunes (my knowledge of the geography there is a bit rusty) seems easy enough, and with the sacrifice of the North-Eastern lake we can still some 6.6 hectares of paddock space, actually more than the main paddock I had promised. Retaining the North-Western lake we can still get a more than decent 5.0 hectares. Retaining the North-Eastern lake, the main paddock would be 4.5 hectares, and the full paddock some 5.8 hectares. Retaining all lakes the main paddock could still end up at almost 3.0 hectares and the full paddock would exceed 4.2 hectares.
To all of these options the current paddocks could add up to 3.4 hectares to provide, in a worst case scenario in which only the main paddock retaining all lakes is permissible, we'd still have a total paddock space of 6.4 hectares, of which just under 3.0 out behind the pit building.
In comparison, expanding the current paddock by scrapping the Hugenholtz would provide at most about 6.0 hectares. It would also have to deal with an only slightly longer pitlane, given the location of the tunnel.
Maybe it's chauvinism, but I prefer "my" solution.

[F1 lobby]

Here is my latest sketch of an improvement of the race track Zandvoort in Holland. I attached also the original track which is 4200 meters, I estimate the new length with the extension of the 3 new sectors will be 5900 meters. Keep in mind that the track is located in the dunes so there are a lot of elevation changes which makes it even more exciting to tame this rollercoaster
Please suggestions and support so one day maybe this new lay-out will be realised!!

[SKG]

There are some parts of this I really like actually. I think the edits you made to the 2nd half of the lap are quite interesting, creating a better potential braking zone into the current turn 9. I'm not sure about the practicalities of this extension though (regarding those blasted little lakes etc.). Also, I like the fact that you've opened up the turn 10-11 chicane, I've always felt this area of the lap is slightly awkward and cramped.

However, I'm not so keen on the outer loop you've added after the first corner. This, coupled with removing the current turn 3 altogether, ruins a great little section of track which has been unchanged since they first raced here, and gets rid of a lot of a lot of the charm and character that Zandvoort is famous for.

I hope this is constructive

[F1 lobby]

Originally Posted by SKGThunder

However, I'm not so keen on the outer loop you've added after the first corner. This, coupled with removing the current turn 3 altogether, ruins a great little section of track which has been unchanged since they first raced here, and gets rid of a lot of a lot of the charm and character that Zandvoort is famous for.

I agree and you're right about the history of that 3rd corner called Hugenholz but I created the outer loop because of the lack of paddock space which is already for years a big issue at Zandvoort and also therefore international series don't find it suitable enough.
If the Hugenholz corner will be moved to the east than there will be a hugh extra paddock space created without loosing track length.

About the second new section: yes that little lake should be decreased until safe measurements.

Still wanna visualize this sketch in btb, rfactor but I don't know how

[LuiggiSpeed]

I absolutely love this thread!!!!

Dealing with a real life track and it's problems is why I joined this forum in the first place.

[F1 lobby]

Originally Posted by LuiggiSpeed

I absolutely love this thread!!!!

Dealing with a real life track and it's problems is why I joined this forum in the first place.

Luiggi this is a real current issue but I'm afraid it always will be because I just got a reply on the email which I sended to the general manager Erik Weijers of Circuitpark Zandvoort with the idea to create paddock space and to improve the track but due to environmental laws, protected dunes, there is no chance to get approval of the government on any of those designs.

The only possible option which has a small chance to be approved is to move the turn 3, hugenholz, to the eastside which becomes turn 2.
Than the problem of the small paddock space is solved as well

[LuiggiSpeed]

Originally Posted by F1 lobby

Luiggi this is a real current issue but I'm afraid it always will be because I just got a reply on the email which I sended to the general manager Erik Weijers of Circuitpark Zandvoort with the idea to create paddock space and to improve the track but due to environmental laws, protected dunes, there is no chance to get approval of the government on any of those designs.

The only possible option which has a small chance to be approved is to move the turn 3, hugenholz, to the eastside which becomes turn 2.
Than the problem of the small paddock space is solved as well

I feel for you brother, I'm trying to get the government to build a track , any track at all in a country 100x35m with 4 million people, so that's how I've become the "small track specialist" I need to use every inch availabe I look at the tracks you guys design here and you leave so much free open space that I only can salivate... Good luck on your projects!! cheers!!!