2014 NASCAR Whelen Euro Series...

[chunder]

Haha, they would never get round!

An F1 stock car can only just get round there pal! And they are far smaller and more manouverable!

[R.Lee]

Well, I've kind of gone into listen mode and let ya'll talk. I hope that eventually, everyone over there will get their act together, with regards to tracks and this series build interest. Never say never. It is a great form of racing, when done right and they put on a great race.

[LateModel24]

I do hope the Whelan Euro Series does succeed; I'm just not convinced it's the right structure yet to get a driver into national level NASCAR in a full time ride. Still, Ambrose made it there so maybe one day...

[R.Lee]

Interesting that this article appeared at Jayski's, this morning. Max Papis has formed a NASCAR Whelan Euro Series team and will enter the series this season. Here is the article:

Max Papis forms Whelen Euro team: Max Papis Racing to announced its presence in the NASCAR Whelen Euro Series, fielding the #99 racecar for the 2014 season. Team Principal and Italian native Max Papis, who has the most NASCAR starts for a European driver, and his wife/car owner, Tatiana Fittipaldi Papis, have a personal connection with the NASCAR family. "Being a NASCAR team owner is a very important step in my professional career," said Papis. "I am excited to create a working platform that will act as a bridge between racing in the United States and Europe, creating opportunities for drivers and technicians to experience the best of the two worlds combined." Kevin Gilardoni will drive the No. 99 racecar in the Elite division. The 21-year old Italian driver has competed in the Eurocup Megane Trophy and Formula Renault 2.0 series, showing great talent and potential with multiple wins, pole positions, and podium finishes in the past three seasons. The NASCAR Whelen Euro Series will begin its third season under the NASCAR banner with the season opener April 12-13 at Valencia in Spain. The six race-weekend schedule also includes stops at England's Brands Hatch, Germany's Nürburgring and the championship weekend at France's famed LeMans. In addition, the series competes on the first purpose-built oval for stock cars in Europe, Tours Speedway in France.(Max Papis Racing)(1-17-2014)

[R59]

Originally Posted by chunder

To be ruthless fella

1500 people is what we get every weekend for proper stockcar racing! It simply isnt enough to sustain any interest at a huge venue, unless you charging a lot to get in. And can guarantee a crowd.

15 grand is going to just about cover the wages of the staff present, OK you might get a bit back with trades stalls, but who are you going to attract with 1500 people!

I think truck racing might have a hardcore UK suppprt of 1500 perhaps with a few thousand floaters? And they had a boom period in the 80's whe tens of thousands of people watched, but it soon ebbed away, even internationally.

That's very true, though short circuit attendances are falling for all but a few special events. I remember going to Brafield on a regular weekend with a good mix of formulae, and it was packed. These days you could organise a Morris Dance in the gaps by comparison if you were that way inclined.

1500 in the sea of seats at Rockingham were there because they wanted to be there. Had the series run in 2008, we would have built on that with promotion - something the BRSCC did NOT do during 2006 or 2007. The only PR relating to the series in '07 was from the teams themselves - like my own. I had a deal in place to have a number of new double decker buses wrapped for publicity for the series and the circuit, and a few other things planned. With the number of cars confirmed for '08, I'm sure we could have grown that 1500 into 4-5000 that year. That's £40-50K which would pretty well pay the circuit hire fee for the weekend. Add to that the income from support races, concessions (food etc..). It could very easily be profitable and self sustaining.

With regards to getting everyone together, would only work on the shorter circuits as the Late Model cars are simply not built for much over 1 mile. They work well on the shorter track as they are offset chassis.

IF the new operators of Mallory go ahead with the circuit mods to move away from using the hairpin, then the hump at the elbow will go, it'll have to or you'll have bikes flying over the barriers! With it gone, that opens up the possibility to use it as an oval again. I've seen video of the circuit being used as an oval in the 1970's for car racing, obviously clockwise.

I agree with the comments about Rockingham's oval being a compromise. The original plans for "Dene Raceway" had it as a Daytona style high bank superspeedway. The thing we ended up with was a fast near flat Indycar track, and the ASA/ASCAR does work well on that kind of track. As you say, the Pickups work very well there as they can pretty well run flat all the way around.

The comments about Silverstone's planned short oval was to be built where the old RallySprint track was, and that's the Porsche Experience Centre these days.

It wasn't canned because Rockingham waned in popularity - "Days of Thunder" was on the up, it was canned because the BRDC couldn't get enough support from within it's own ranks to back the development when most of them were F1 or BTCC types.

Truck Racing has lost popularity in the UK because since Tom Bissett packed up at Lydden, nobody really promotes/encourages it like he did. In fact nobody promotes grassroots motorsport like Tom did. If you build the grassroots, the upper formulae will benefit too. If you concentrate everything on the upper end, everything below it suffers, and ultimately, the sport dies.

ASCAR failed because it was assassinated. It had been sick (2006 and into 2007) but the prognosis for growth was good.
Rockingham failed in what they did because they overspent - paying teams £3K per start was stupid. It should have been just a zero entry fee, with some degree of subsidy on tyres/fuel via sponsorship support. Teams like Torquespeed and WestTec made good money out of it, and if someone holds out a big handful of cash saying "here take it", you ain't going to say no, can't blame them for that!. I remember Proccy telling me that he did the ASCAR races that clashed with the BTCC simply because of it - he told Alan Gow "are you going to pay me to start? because Rockingham are!" The other thing they did wrong was give away too many of the tickets that could have been sold with better marketing in my opinion.

But all of this is the past. The future for US style Stockcar racing in Europe lies in the hands of all three series. Like Latemodel24, I don't understand the split between Venray and Warneton, it doesn't make sense as it will hurt both series with a fractured community - they need to kiss and make up!! The "official" NASCAR Whelan Euroseries will continue growth, I have no doubt. When you compare it to any championship of similar international standing, the costs of running in it are peanuts - which is another factor.

Back to costs - the expense of moving from the 1/4mile to 1/2mile is a jump, but from what I saw, moving from Rockingham down to that was a cost increase as the damage level went through the roof (no pun intended).

Once final point - would the Euro NASCAR winner make it in the 'States, who knows - but it'd be damn good to be in that position to try!

[chunder]

Venray will be because of Maasen, he is a ruthless man, always has been, the old Venray was supposedly on its last legs for years, but hey presto the new one gets built right next door, near all teh green areas it was supposed to be threatening!

Believe me this guy is ruthless and has lots of friends in high places!

we used to have Baarlo, a mile track or half mile cant remember, awesome place, its still there covered in caravans! Was best track in Holland, full contatn 100mph stock cars there was steggering.

As for the marketing stuff, you usually have to speculate to accumulate if you are pushing something very new.

I am talking about many years back, when they had the concerts etc, that should have been their launchpad, but it wasnt and I cant see it ever changing now sorry.

[andy97]

Rob, great post and very informative.

Perhaps someone should adopt this and attempt a mixed Oval/ Road course series? http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=29247
A "European look" for the cars may help?

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by andy97

Rob, great post and very informative.

Perhaps someone should adopt this and attempt a mixed Oval/ Road course series? http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=29247
A "European look" for the cars may help?

In my opinion this is the best way to introduce NASCAR racing in Europe.

[R.Lee]

Well, again, I will wish you guys luck. For those of you that are or have been and are hoping to get back into driving, I know where you are coming from, with regards to money. I am a former racer. I raced Late models back in the 70s and 80s, first in North Georgia, then in the Carolinas. I had a shot at the old NASCAR Grand National Division, but lack of funds killed it. So I hope each one of you can hang onto and progress with your dreams.

A couple of you mentioned the "European attitude" and unfortunately we have a form of that here in the U.S. too. Ours is a bit different, in how the ones that have it, like to bash, insult, critize and ridicule other racing series and fans of those series, other than their own. They especially like to aim it at stock car racing and stock car racing fans. It comes from the sportscar and forumla car ranks. These people seem to think themselves superior to others, but what they don't realize is the fact that they have caused a riff, a great divide among the fans of the different forms of racing in this country. It has gotten to a point where fans of one or the other form of racing will not attend or watch any other form of racing other than what they favor. I know this to be true, because I have become one of the ones that won't. My problem lies mainly with the formula car crowd, particularly the indy car crowd. Those people, as a whole, with a very few exceptions, are the most rude, arrogant, unpleasant group of fans to be around and I do not go anywhere near them or their form of racing. What they either don't realize or don't care is that they, as a racing series have VERY FEW fans and it would stand to reason that they would not want to drive people away from them and their racing, but that doesn't stop them, from going full speed ahead, in doing so. The sportscar crowd, at times, tries to rival the formula car crowd, but in most cases, they fall short.

Here is where that attitude became detrimental to all fans though. We have an excellent short track, up in Jefferson County, Gresham Motorsports Park. The Gresham family bought the old Peachstate Speedway and drastically improved it. They have a very strong weekly local racing program, with several different classes of cars and they had been able to get themselves onto the NASCAR K&N Pro East Series schedule. They ran at GMP in 2011 and 2012, I went to both races and enjoyed them throughly. Then, at the end of 2012, NASCAR/ISC dropped a bombshell and purchased Road Atlanta (as well as Sebring). Suddenly, there was no K&N race at GMP. That race was rescheduled for Road Atlanta, as a Friday support race for their October Sportscar weekend race. I had made friends with a guy, that was a sportscar fan, on another forum. He had not ever seen a stock car race. I am not a road-racing fan, but we had kind of worked out an agreement to go to the race, but when I learned it was on Friday, that killed my being able to go, due to having to work. I honestly do not understand what NASCAR was thinking, scheduling a race, where the cars are short track racers, on a road-course, with a fanbase that is basically hostile to stock cars. My friend went to the Friday race. He gave me a good description of what happened. Said that some of the drivers had talent and some didn't and that he could tell the cars were out of their element on a road-course. What he said next, was what I expected. He said that the race was interesting to him, having not ever seen stock cars, but that he was basically the exception to the rule. Said that there were allot of catcalls, jeers, boos when the NASCAR drivers were introduced. When the race started, most of the people there, he said, just walked away, did other things and completely ignored the race. He said there were quite a few people yelling "Get the damn taxi cabs off of the course", throughout the race. He told me that he now understands me being a NASCAR fan, how I have developed a dislike for road-racing and the sportscar crowd and that frankly, he was embarassed at their behaviour toward the stock car drivers. As a side note, he said that he would like to go to a short track and watch stock cars run in their element, so we will do that in the future. What I feared would happen, happened. NASCAR judged that there was not much interest for the series, judging from the poor crowd, WELL DUH, Friday is a week day and MOST people are working, can't figure out why they would think otherwise, and the reaction of what crowd there was -- WOW, again a hostile group toward stock cars, go figure, they decided not to reschedule the K&N race for this coming Oct, at Road Atlanta. Okay, so it goes back to where it should not have been moved from, to start with, GMP. NO, they just decided to eliminate the K&N race, from Georgia, all together! So, basically, that "European, road-racing" attitude hurt all of the fans in the area. NASCAR fans, because there is now, no K&N race to see, in Georgia, anymore and we blame the sportscar crowd, because of their action toward the series and the sportscar crowd, because now, due to them killing off our race, we despise them for that and will have nothing to do with them or their race! NASCAR does not escape blameless either -- they should have known that the sportscar crowd would not embrace stock cars, even on a road-course, so it was literally STUPID for them to schedule that race there, to start with! Sum total, though, in one way or another, EVERYBODY loses because of what happened! So my advise to all of you you is DO NOT let that attitude do to you what it has done to us here in North Georgia!

[R59]

I don't know about a "European Look" to the cars, I think the spectators (who are interested) like the Americana, judging by the success of the MSV American Speedfest at Brands Hatch. They like V8's. They like to "feel" the cars, though due to the restrictions of noise at Venray, and via the Euro-series, they're very quiet.

A mixed road and oval course series could work. Mr France seems to think so in the USA, though that's mostly ovals of course

R.Lee, it sounds like the situation in Georgia was badly organised.

My background is road-course racing. I'm a convert to oval racing, and have seen how well Stockcars work on road courses. And just watching the Rolex 24, how Sportscars work on "modified" ovals!

Once again, I hope the NASCAR Whelan Euro Series grows. I'd like to be in that, but right now I don't have any backing to make that happen. Cheques made payable to "Charitable Aid for Self Helpers" (this initials C A S H will do) can be sent to me at .....

[chunder]

Out of interest, what was the admission price for the American thing last year?

Looks to have gone up a bit this year after a check on MSV site?

[R.Lee]

Originally Posted by R59

I don't know about a "European Look" to the cars, I think the spectators (who are interested) like the Americana, judging by the success of the MSV American Speedfest at Brands Hatch. They like V8's. They like to "feel" the cars, though due to the restrictions of noise at Venray, and via the Euro-series, they're very quiet.

That is a very good point. Much of the attraction of racing, especially stock car racing, is the sound of the engines. I wish you could have heard it back in the 60's and 70's, when the big Chrysler 426 c.i.d. "Hemi" and Ford 427 c.i.d."Tunnelport" and 429 c.i.d."Boss" engines ruled the tracks! The sound was almost visual! It literally shook the ground and pounded off of your chest! There was NOTHING before and there has been NOTHING since, like the sound of 40 of those cars roaring past you at full song -- it was AWESOME! What has always struck me is that the more quiet a race car sounds, again, especially a stock car, the slower it appears to be going, even though it might be running at a record speed.

Originally Posted by R59

A mixed road and oval course series could work. Mr France seems to think so in the USA, though that's mostly ovals of course

I would say that, that is according to who your audience is. This point, apparently, is lost on Brian France. He is the worst leader that NASCAR has ever had at it's helm. Traditionally, stock car racing, here in the U.S. is oval track oriented. Road-racing just has not ever been as popular or even popular here, just the reverse of the situation in Europe, where road-racing is extreamly popular and oval racing is not nearly as popular or popular at all. France shows his inept understanding of stock car racing and it's fans, by catering to a small, though vocal portion of the fan base or fans of a different base, road-racing oriented fans, that normally watch ONLY the two road-races (Sonoma and Watkins Glen) on the Sprint Cup schedule each year. He is ignoring the majority of the stock car fan base saying that they do not want more road-races added to the schedule and catering to the small (really small enough to be insignifigant) segment of the fan base demanding more road-races. That is a reciept for failure, down the road, as his inept understand and decisions will run away long time, faithful, fans and play to fans that will simply move on to the "next thing" when they grow tired to what they presently see as the "flavor of the day". Basically, he is trying to literally change the 60+ years of DNA that make up the stock car racing fan, oval racing. He is, as his policies are showing on several fronts, driving away fans and is destined to end in failure!

Originally Posted by R59

R.Lee, it sounds like the situation in Georgia was badly organised.

That Sir, is an understatement! Again, it shows the ineptness that is running NASCAR these days. They obviously do not know or understand their market, geographicaclly. Road Atlanta is, by every indication, a first class road-racing facility, but it is somewhat of a regional fluke. By that, I mean that it has basically beaten the odds. In a region, the Deep South, that is heavily populated with oval racing, stock car fans, most that do not care about road-racing, it has been able to survive and carve out a nitche for itself. That is not a bad thing, it is just that it really should not have happened, they beat the odds. Here is where France, en company show that they do not have the feel for the fans of the region. They mistook the success of the nitche, that Road Atlanta was able to carve out for itself, over the predominate feeling and like of the fans in the area. They took what had been a very successful short track race, in a region where that is prefered and moved it to a track, that they had purchased, ignoring the fact that the fans, that attend races at that track, are not stock car fans and have no interest in stock car racing. Then, looking at the results, low attendance and lack of interest from the fans at that track, that weekend, they ignore the fact, that the event had been successful, at the short track, at Gresham Motorsports Park, approximately 25 miles, up I-85, North of there and just cancel the race, altogether! They would have been FAR better off, to either have given the race back to Gresham, or to have they bought the then closed, (and for sale, at the time they bought Road Atlanta) Lanier National Speedway (3/8 mile oval) directly across ththe street from Road Atlanta, and used it for the K&N race, in conjunction with their October sportscar weekend. They would have two entirely seperate and disimilar events, on the same weekend, that cater to two entirely different groups of fans, but, in the end, they would have had a little something for everybody and it would have resulted in more money in THEIR pockets! Again, just highlights the ineptness at NASCAR's helm, presently.

Originally Posted by R59

My background is road-course racing. I'm a convert to oval racing, and have seen how well Stockcars work on road courses. And just watching the Rolex 24, how Sportscars work on "modified" ovals!

Apparently, it has worked well enough, over the years, as that event has run, at Daytona, for almost as long as the track has been opened. Several other ovals, on the NASCAR schedule have tried to imulate the 24 hour road-race, at Daytona. Throughout the 70s, track after track, added infield road courses, but none met with any success, At first, it seemed to catch on, at Talladega, in 69, 70, or so, but it quickly died out. Again, more a regional thing -- Deep South, mainly stock car racing fans, with little interest in road-racing. None of these tracks held road-races, for much longer than one or two years, and the infield road-courses are now, either not used or are used by amature club racers, for their weekend meets. Daytona, with it's 24 hours race is another exception to the rule. It's history, possibly because of it's association to Daytona Beach, the "Birthplace of Speed", that had a large international presence, for years, with the speed runs, before they were moved to the Bonneville Salt Flats, is possibly the reason why. Very recently, last two years, I believe, I'm guessing, because I don't follow it, but believe I've seen articles from this time period, indianapolis Motor Speedway has added this series to it's summer, Brickyard 400 schedule. I believe the jury is still out, as to whether it will make it or not, but then, the fans, that this track draws normally, are more inclined to like road-racing, so it could make it, NASCAR fans, on the other hand, are about the only ones to show up for this weekend, to watch the NASCAR races, this race draws a seperate group of fans, by and large, road-racing fans, that don't attend the NASCAR races.

Originally Posted by R59

Once again, I hope the NASCAR Whelan Euro Series grows. I'd like to be in that, but right now I don't have any backing to make that happen. Cheques made payable to "Charitable Aid for Self Helpers" (this initials C A S H will do) can be sent to me at .....

HaHaHa! I have not heard that line in years! First time I head it was on the old "Beverly Hillbillies" TV show. An episode that had Phil Silvers as a guest star and he used that line, multiple times, trying to get Jed Clampett to sign money over to him! Great memories. I hope this series can grow and hope that you will race again, in it. Good luck to you.

[R.Lee]

Originally Posted by chunder

Out of interest, what was the admission price for the American thing last year?

Looks to have gone up a bit this year after a check on MSV site?

Are you asking for the price of a ticket, to attend one of the races, here in the U.S. or are you asking the cost of fielding a team, for a season, in the series here in the U.S.?

[kurski]

Two icons of motorsports together in the Nascar Whelen Euro Series.

[gaaaazFR]

Did anyone followed the Whelen Euro Nascar new's about new drivers coming into the serie?

Looks like 2014 is going to be the year with the highest level in the short history of the serie!

New names coming in 2014 :

Racing Club Partner/VDS
- Markus Paltala (3 race program) (FIN)
- Bas Leinders? (BEL)

DF1 Racing :
- Christophe Bouchut (FRA)
- Mathias Lauda (AUT)

CAAL Racing :
- Eddie Cheever III (USA)
- Fabrizio Armetta (ITA)
- Nicolas Rocca (ITA)

PK Carsport :
- Anthony Kumpen (BEL)
- Bert Longin (BEL)

Euro Kart Racing :
- Simone Monforte (ITA)

Renauer Motorsport
- Dominic Tiroch (AUT)

Max Papis Racing
- Kevin Gilardoni (ITA)

If you had to that Vilarino, Gabillon & Zimmer (top 3 2013) coming back, that's already a pretty strong field in term of quality ;-)

[chunder]

LAuda how the mighty fall eh

One minute a works Merc driver who was rubbish the next driving in circles! lol

[FIRE]

The official cooperation with NASCAR gave this series a boost.

Besides that I can imagine it's fun to drive these cars.

[kurski]

Originally Posted by gaaaazFR

Did anyone followed the Whelen Euro Nascar new's about new drivers coming into the serie?

there's going to drive the also former GP2 driver Borja Garcia.

[Starfish Primer]

Originally Posted by kurski

there's going to drive the also former GP2 driver Borja Garcia.

Has been confirmed? As far as I know, his presence at Le Mans last year was just a invitation/try.

[Starfish Primer]

34 cars for 2014!! Wow

http://www.nascarwheleneuroseries.co...their-engines/

This is for me the most entertaining series on track in Europe. I hope to be at Brands Hatch.

[FIRE]

Looking good.

Hopefully they can improve coming years (more events, longer races, race at Raceway Venray).


I have renamed the topic title.

[Starfish Primer]

This weekend is the first race, in Valencia:

http://www.nascarwheleneuroseries.co...-race-central/

There isn´t any TV coverage as far as I know

[gomick]

Ander Vilarino & Yann Zimmer shared the race wins in Valencia...

Anthony Kumpen - 83
Bert Longin - 83
Eddie Cheever - 78
Matthias Lauda - 73
Christope Bouchut - 71
Freddy Nordstrom - 70
Yann Zimmer - 69
Ander Vilarino - 67
Borja Garcia - 65

[FIRE]

Tonight round 1 at Motors TV.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Tonight round 1 at Motors TV.

Completely forgot about this, gonna try to catch the replay tonight at 8:20pm CET.