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Old 21 Jan 2012, 16:20 (Ref:3015036)   #1
Jacques Rabbit
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2013 Cup Bodies

Ford will unveil the 2013 Fusion Cup car on Tuesday.



NASCAR's essentially doing the same thing they did in Nationwide: rather than mandate the same body, they are mandating the same drag and downforce numbers. It worked well in NNS; all four manufacturers, even with their varying levels of representation, went to victory lane in 2011. Solves the problem of everyone complaining that someone has an advantage, while also solving the problem of automakers complaining that they have no brand identity in NASCAR.

The chassis will not change, so don't expect a real difference in the style of racing. Still a welcome change, in my opinion, and the only way to really go about it as, if you free them up, they'll just design super aerodynamic cars that look nothing like production cars as opposed to the super un-aerodynamic cars that look nothing like production cars we have now.

Dodge will use the Charger in Cup. Toyota will use the Camry. There is a new Impala for 2013 so one assumes Chevrolet will use that; they could use the restyled 2013 (or 2012?) Malibu as well, or even the Caprice (basically a Pontiac G8/Holden Commodore) that is currently a police car but eventually supposed to maybe possibly sort of go on sale as a production car if I'm reading things correctly.
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Old 21 Jan 2012, 17:01 (Ref:3015052)   #2
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Looking forward to see how they turn a four sedan with a four cyl motor into a two door V-8 coupe.

The new Fusion is a very attractive car. I'm thinking it's time for new engines to be introduced in in the next couple of years.
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Old 21 Jan 2012, 23:30 (Ref:3015146)   #3
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Looking forward to see how they turn a four sedan with a four cyl motor into a two door V-8 coupe.
This is something that I've never been able to understand. Why don't they have regs defining the type of car that can be entered? For a car to be eligible to race in the V8 Supercar series, the production car has to be a four door, RWD V8. I would have thought that a similar system would have been a given in NASCARland, because who doesn't like seeing the best of each brand fighting it out? (Also, it would have kept the xenophobes happy when Toyota tried to enter).
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Old 23 Jan 2012, 12:35 (Ref:3015666)   #4
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This is something that I've never been able to understand. Why don't they have regs defining the type of car that can be entered? For a car to be eligible to race in the V8 Supercar series, the production car has to be a four door, RWD V8. I would have thought that a similar system would have been a given in NASCARland, because who doesn't like seeing the best of each brand fighting it out? (Also, it would have kept the xenophobes happy when Toyota tried to enter).
Would also have thrown out the rest of them. US manufacturers by and by large doesn't build RWD V8's any longer either.
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Old 23 Jan 2012, 17:59 (Ref:3015793)   #5
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If I recall correctly, this all really started in 1983, when NASCAR introduced down-sizing from the full-size 120" wheelbase cars, which were mostly based on rear-drive models with an in-line V8, to 108" medium range cars, a number of which were based on 4 cylinder or V6 transverse-engined front-drive cars.

Generally the manufacturers' NASCAR car will bear the name of one of their best-selling lines; cars like the Thunderbird and the Monte Carlo were never big sellers, and it made more sense in terms of the commercial spin-off from racing success to use the model name of more popular cars such as the Fusion and the Impala. The 2013 Cup bodies will likely use styling cues generic to the manufacturers' model ranges, but bear the names of front-drive four door family sedans.

Last edited by Clive Brown; 23 Jan 2012 at 18:19.
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Old 23 Jan 2012, 18:00 (Ref:3015794)   #6
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Dodge will use the Charger in Cup. Toyota will use the Camry. There is a new Impala for 2013 so one assumes Chevrolet will use that; they could use the restyled 2013 (or 2012?) Malibu as well, or even the Caprice (basically a Pontiac G8/Holden Commodore) that is currently a police car but eventually supposed to maybe possibly sort of go on sale as a production car if I'm reading things correctly.
The Caprice is a Holden Statesman (a stretched Commodore) and this vehicle will not be made available to the public. We will only get the FWD Impala, so it will be that or the 'Bu.
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Old 23 Jan 2012, 21:21 (Ref:3015883)   #7
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The Caprice is a Holden Statesman (a stretched Commodore) and this vehicle will not be made available to the public. We will only get the FWD Impala, so it will be that or the 'Bu.
There is strong talk the regular Commodore is coming back as a Chevy. However, the Commodore is getting a major redo for the 2014 model year so likely it wont happen for us for another 2 years.
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Old 23 Jan 2012, 21:44 (Ref:3015902)   #8
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The Commodore might come over as a Caprice for general public sale, which may reach the market in the 2015 model year.
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Old 24 Jan 2012, 14:53 (Ref:3016214)   #9
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Thanks for clearing up the Commodore/Caprice confusion. Sorry for that. From a marketing perspective, I have no idea why they'd continue with the Impala. They never advertise the Impala, they never sell any Impalas, I'm not even sure why they make it. Plus, it competes with Taurus and Avalon (or at least tries to compete), not so much with Fusion and Camry...

...but I guess if the re-launch of a brand new 2013 Impala is supposed to rejuvenate the car, they may start a big campaign for it. However, that campaign will probably be overshadowed by the one for the new Malibu coming out. I could understand Impala on the old bodies because Malibu would have looked so strange, but now with real lines, I'd give it a change.

Should be seeing the Fusion soon...
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Old 24 Jan 2012, 16:05 (Ref:3016248)   #10
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It would be bizarre indeed if at the end of all this, the Shuvelay was to be an Impala, the Dodge a Charger, the Furd a Fusion, and the Toyoda a Camry....

Whilst NASCAR must equalise downforce and drag, it is also important that the aerodynamic centre of pressure in relation to the wheelbase is matched across the four manufacturers, but to give credit where credit may be due, it does seem that for once, NASCAR has done a good job in matching the NNS bodies evenly.
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Old 24 Jan 2012, 22:01 (Ref:3016465)   #11
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Thanks for clearing up the Commodore/Caprice confusion. Sorry for that. From a marketing perspective, I have no idea why they'd continue with the Impala. They never advertise the Impala, they never sell any Impalas, I'm not even sure why they make it. Plus, it competes with Taurus and Avalon (or at least tries to compete), not so much with Fusion and Camry...

...but I guess if the re-launch of a brand new 2013 Impala is supposed to rejuvenate the car, they may start a big campaign for it. However, that campaign will probably be overshadowed by the one for the new Malibu coming out. I could understand Impala on the old bodies because Malibu would have looked so strange, but now with real lines, I'd give it a change.

Should be seeing the Fusion soon...
I apologize, but I didn't realize the Stateman name has been retired for Caprice. We won't see the Caprice available to the public. The Impala will be a totally new car and available with the turbo-4 in the new Malibu. Fleet sales should help GM attain the fuel mileage standards. Everything I have heard from GM says that they will not be available to the public here. I'm pretty heavy into the US/Holden community.

Here's an article from a while back that may be of interest:
http://www.motortrend.com/features/a...or_civic_duty/
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Old 24 Jan 2012, 16:25 (Ref:3016260)   #12
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i am curious as to what they are going to develop here, the engines- they can leave alone, it is racing and this does make it the aspirational power source from lower less filling cylinder count formulas in the states-although V8's are so cheap to build to make insane power for saturday night and club racers i can't imagine replacing them in total.
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Old 24 Jan 2012, 18:28 (Ref:3016323)   #13
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http://photos.speedtv.com/gallery/20.../02pbaokfhQe7Y

I like what they're doing.
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Old 24 Jan 2012, 19:41 (Ref:3016369)   #14
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At the first photo I thought Aston Martin was joining NASCAR.

At photo 4 and 6 the car looks very low and long.

So far I like it. The new stock car looks less "heavy".

The new Chevrolet Malibu (will be sold as Chevrolet Epica in Europe) looks nice. I hope Chevy will use that car.

Dodge will keep the Charger in Cup?
I assume Toyota will enter the Camry (current model was launched in 2011).
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Old 24 Jan 2012, 19:50 (Ref:3016378)   #15
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Agree on the Aston thing!

Yes, Dodge is using the Charger; they have a 2013 Cup car in their R&D center right now, no pictures leaked yet but it apparently looks really cool.



Ain't perfect, but it's a lot cooler than what we have now.
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Old 24 Jan 2012, 21:03 (Ref:3016429)   #16
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Agree on the Aston thing!

Yes, Dodge is using the Charger; they have a 2013 Cup car in their R&D center right now, no pictures leaked yet but it apparently looks really cool.



Ain't perfect, but it's a lot cooler than what we have now.
Looks really good. I'm glad Nascar is making some changes.
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Old 25 Jan 2012, 13:19 (Ref:3016766)   #17
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Hats off to NASCAR, and hats off to Ford for doing this properly and getting the body to match the road car as closely as possible while still working on the COT chassis.

Great for NASCAR, they might get a few fans back with this move. I'm surprised the manufacturers didn't push for this sort of body when the COT was being designed.
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Old 25 Jan 2012, 14:21 (Ref:3016803)   #18
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This car is fantastic... the best looking NASCAR I've seen in the last 25 years.
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Old 26 Jan 2012, 19:37 (Ref:3017429)   #19
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 05:55 (Ref:3017615)   #20
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Wow, I knew the new gen stock cars would look and be way better, but THIS! My mind is blown. Could this inspire new manufacturers to join?
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 10:52 (Ref:3017706)   #21
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That Ford looks like its snarling. Cracking! The breakout from the suffocating conformism and mediocrity we've suffered since the COT was first introduced is to be welcomed.
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 16:04 (Ref:3017847)   #22
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That Ford looks like its snarling. Cracking! The breakout from the suffocating conformism and mediocrity we've suffered since the COT was first introduced is to be welcomed.
Yep, totally agree !
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 17:10 (Ref:3017866)   #23
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Yeah, but it won't look any where near as good with a letterbox in the middle of the front bumper, and the rear bumper 2" lower.

This is all because Brian France's left trouser pocket is labelled "ISC", and his right pocket "NASCAR". NASCAR says that Talladega and Daytona are not safe for unrestricted Sprint Cup cars, so instead of forcing the track owner (ISC) to implement appropriate safety measures to allow 220mph+ running, NASCAR has mandated restrictor plates, all in the interest of corporate profits chanelled directly into the pockets of the France family.
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 17:35 (Ref:3017875)   #24
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But is this the final NASCAR approved design? Or is it Fords opinion how the car should look?
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Old 27 Jan 2012, 19:38 (Ref:3017917)   #25
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But is this the final NASCAR approved design? Or is it Fords opinion how the car should look?
More here: http://nascar.speedtv.com/article/cu...-at-homestead/
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