How's this for a compromise?

Andrew Kitson · 26 Sep 2002, 00:22 (Ref:388528)

I've been to the US and have been to some CART races but never to the IRL, except on TV. As a European I am brought up on road racing.
With the IRL seemingly winning the 'war' and the very word 'Indy' being easy for the casual fan to understand - why not continue with the 2 series named thus:
'IRL Speedway league' ( as is) and CART becomes the 'IRL road racing league' to be held on the street and road courses we have now? Both could have seperate regs but would be named under the IRL to try to unify things. As for the oval races such as Rockingham in the UK and Motegi - I dont know. Maybe a double header - The IRL on the oval on Saturday and 'CART' on the infield course on the Sunday?
Just an idea.

Jay · 26 Sep 2002, 00:55 (Ref:388533)

That's not a bad idea, except that two series are controlled by different groups that hate each other guts (literally) and one (the IRL) has stated its intention to kill off Cart...

There's a good chance that Cart will become all road course in the near future. Although, personally, I'd like to keep at least a few ovals that run these cars. I'm in love the cars as much as I am the series and would hate to see them change.

Liz · 26 Sep 2002, 00:59 (Ref:388536)

How about this for a compromise? Let's call France, England, Germany, Holland and Belgium "European America" and Mexico, Canada and the USA "True America." Since America is seemingly winning the 'war' and "America" being an easy word for casual Europeans to understand, why not continue with the two halves of the Western World named thus? Both could have separate constsitution s but be named under the term "America" to try to unify the world. And as for countries like Switzerland, Italy and Luxembourg, well they could be "True America" one month and "European America" the next month.

I'm sure you Europeans would be happy to be identified as sort of second class Americans if it made for "unity" and the casual inhabitant of the world could understand what was going on ...

Well, gee whiz, it's only a thought ...

Perhaps we could have "Muslim Palestine" and "Zionist Palestine" then, and on alternate weekends we could call them both "England."

Jay · 26 Sep 2002, 01:31 (Ref:388546)

Well...that's putting it a little extreme. But, it's not much different with these two series. They hate each other, and you are going to see George W. Bush take up communism

before Cart and the IRL come together...

It may seem hard to believe watching the races on TV, but the two series will never be able to co-operate as long as certain players are invovled.

The Snout · 26 Sep 2002, 01:45 (Ref:388552)

Jay, bloody spot on. "....as long as certain players are involved".
If some egos weren't on the scene common sense would have bought the series together and we all could have got on with the show.

I'll admit I'll never be a hugh fan of 1.5 banked oval racing, but I would have accepted it as just another driving discipline in a merged series. Both sides could have worked to keep costs down so we could have had 30+ cars per race and 25 races per season. Just unfortunate that "certain players" ARE involved.

Lee Janotta · 26 Sep 2002, 02:32 (Ref:388574)

Quote:

Originally posted by Liz
How about this for a compromise? Let's call France, England, Germany, Holland and Belgium "European America" and Mexico, Canada and the USA "True America." Since America is seemingly winning the 'war' and "America" being an easy word for casual Europeans to understand, why not continue with the two halves of the Western World named thus? Both could have separate constsitution s but be named under the term "America" to try to unify the world. And as for countries like Switzerland, Italy and Luxembourg, well they could be "True America" one month and "European America" the next month.

I'm sure you Europeans would be happy to be identified as sort of second class Americans if it made for "unity" and the casual inhabitant of the world could understand what was going on ...

Well, gee whiz, it's only a thought ...

Perhaps we could have "Muslim Palestine" and "Zionist Palestine" then, and on alternate weekends we could call them both "England."

You been reading stolen documents from Ashcroft's drawers again Liz?

Speaking of which... Y'know anyplace in southern Ontario I can crash if the Feds come after me?

Uhm... Talk to you later...

Russfeld · 26 Sep 2002, 03:47 (Ref:388586)

He's got a point, IRL is a lot better to market than CART. Partly because you're marketing a series instead of a sanctioning body, but neither hold much of a candle to "indycar"

Barbarosa · 26 Sep 2002, 04:33 (Ref:388594)

Hey. No one was supposed to know she's been reading those, Lee!

The problem has always been that Tony George believes that he should be the one calling the shots in open wheel racing since he owns IMS. Hence the reason he took his ball and went home. Granted, CART could have offered him an actual voting seat on the Board instead of an Honorary Non-voting Seat to the CEO of IMS. However, as Tony has more than proved over the years, unless he's the one calling ALL the shots, he's just not happy.

On the other hand, you have guys like Rahal and Andretti on the board who believe that racing should be run by racers and team owners and not dictated to by the shmoe who just happens to own one of the tracks. Sure, 30 cars on the grid would be great. Might even get there in the next few years with the rising costs of driving in the IRL, since a lot of teams will be forced out for financial reasons.

And Lee, if you think Southern Ontario is going to be a safe hide out, you obviously didn't hear about Ascroft's plans to invade in the Spring.

Barbarosa

Flatspot · 26 Sep 2002, 05:08 (Ref:388600)

Liz, that response was a little over edge but I have to tell you it was the best laugh I've had in a while

Andrew Kitson · 26 Sep 2002, 08:09 (Ref:388656)

Yeah Liz, very funny but I was just trying to make the point that over here and the rest of the world, CART and IRL mean nothing to the occassional fan. To us petrol heads yes, we do not need to be converted. No wonder Rockingham have a hard time selling tickets - only 30,000 for the whole of Europe! More than that turn up for the Friday practice day for the British GP. However, you say the word 'Indy', they all know what you are talking about and the names Andretti, Foyt, Unser,
even Paul Newman spring to mind. Household names.
Now if another European 'Mansell' could be found, sales might increase here but from a marketing point of view I think it is vital to include the word Indy. Over to you Mr.George.

Liz · 26 Sep 2002, 10:39 (Ref:388736)

Well, Andrew, I was making the point (besides just being funny) that to the 94% of Americans who have never left the country "Europe" and the various divisions -- except for Germany -- mean absolutely nothing to us and a lot of us think you'd be much more efficient if we took over and ran things.

Just goes to show you how out of touch people can be.

Seriously though, you'll see Israel and Hisbollah sharing joint custody of the region before you'll see anyone over here surrender to TG.

Liz · 26 Sep 2002, 10:42 (Ref:388738)

P.S. Anyone who thinks Canada is a "safe" place to be should be aware that we have no effective military at all and at present we have lots of terrorists although the CIA is busily rooting them out.

Note to CIA Members: if you looked less like "Men in Black" you might not get spotted so quickly.

alesi95 · 26 Sep 2002, 11:07 (Ref:388757)

Why do americans hate communists so much?
It's not as if they've tried it.

Lee Janotta · 26 Sep 2002, 13:46 (Ref:388849)

Eh, Ontario'd just be a place to stop for a few nights before I can meet up with other dissidents and charter a cargo plane to Sweden or Germany.

Alesi, don't get me started... Americans don't know what Communism really is... Heck, most people in this country under the age of 30 think that the Nazis were Communist.... Communist just equals evil to them... As does terrorist, so to them, terrorist=communist. Gah. The horrible public education here is what's doomed us to be ruled by this corporate plutocracy.

It's kind of a moot issue, though... Communism doesn't account for some basic elements of human nature, so it's not going to work anyways. Likewise for so many other systems...

The Swedes seem to be the only people on earth who actually have a system that _works_.

Gah, can't even share my _real_ thoughts anymore since they passed this US Patriot Act... Lets just say my feelings on the current government are shared by a certain outspoken member of Gerhard Schroeder's government.

It's good to at least see western Europe is starting to reject that inexorable slide to the extreme right.

I'm scared living here. I really am...

Jay · 26 Sep 2002, 14:09 (Ref:388860)

Andrew, I see what you're saying in terms of names and it's the exact same problem that the series have had here. Talk to any North American that isn't a racefan or doesn't know someone who's a racefan, and they won't have a clue what 'Cart' or 'IRL' is, but they will know what you mean if you say 'Indycar'.

But, I don't think that will be solved in the near future... so, if Cart is going to be successful in Britain and Europe it will not be under the banner 'Indycar'.

Neil C · 26 Sep 2002, 15:06 (Ref:388892)

So you see Andrew, even though your idea makes much sense from your perspective, the mere mention of CART/IRL has people on this side of the pond proclaiming the verities of Communism and Swedish socialism or hiding under the bed from the right wing boogie man.

The topic has become so politicized here that it literaly morphs into global political ideology! IRL has become such a polarizing topic, it might be renamed IsRaeL.

So, you see, Mr. K, your brand of objective reasoning only serves t0 dampen the fuse we are desparately trying to light. Nice try though.

Liz · 26 Sep 2002, 16:09 (Ref:388927)

It is a polarizing topic. Not unlike the uproar that we get into on the IMSA boards when people start talking about Grand Am.

But "sensibly" suggesting "why don't you just surrender?" is a little weird.

P.S. on communism, as Lee suggests, it ignores the basic nature of human beings, which is that if we have a choice between working for $50 a day and getting $50 a day for doing nothing, we're going to take Option B every single time. And communism assumes that given the choice, human beings would always choose Option A ... and that a person who can fix a Xerox machine is worth exactly the same pay as a person who can sing all the words to "I Wanna Hold Your Hand", and that a certified plumber is worth exactly the same salary as TGF.

But that is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic. Except that I think any certified plumber or Xerox repairman is worth 100,000 times as much as TGF.

Jordi · 26 Sep 2002, 17:05 (Ref:388966)

Talking about politics, me and Oriol try to bring Catalonia around, Oriol on the race tracks and me in the bulletin boards...

Anyway. IRL and CART together. I'd say it's less possible than TGF testing a CART car...

Liz · 26 Sep 2002, 17:20 (Ref:388979)

Or racing Colin McRae to prove which is the better man ...

Russfeld · 26 Sep 2002, 17:26 (Ref:388984)

What with all of McCrae's vast experience in racing. He's got what, maybe 5-10 career starts against MIchael who has at least 150 just in F1. I love rallying but lets be realistic, its not racing. Its a 3 day qualifying lap and has even less to do with competitive overtaking than F1.

Lee Janotta · 27 Sep 2002, 00:49 (Ref:389385)

No F1 races are held on tree-lined gravel roads or along cliffs with nothing keeping you from dying except your skill, four tires and some crappy 30 year-old guardrail.

Russfeld · 27 Sep 2002, 00:57 (Ref:389387)

Right, but thats got sweet fuc|( all to do with racing

Lee Janotta · 27 Sep 2002, 01:03 (Ref:389388)

Likewise with F1. But at least WRC's worth watching..

Liz · 27 Sep 2002, 01:32 (Ref:389397)

McRae has also raced superbikes and ASCAR, and he's willing to try anything. Without crying "too dangerous!" either.

Russfeld · 27 Sep 2002, 01:43 (Ref:389401)

Right, but my point is because Michael doesnt want to do a Rally expose it doesnt mean he's shying away from 'racing' McCrae since its not racing at all. Maybe if they both did the Michelin Race of Champions.

I dont even know why im trying to rationalise this, its just another one of your childish hangups with F1

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
How's this for entertainment!!!	Invincible	Touring Car Racing	4	18 Sep 2001 09:31
How's this for stupidity	Les	Touring Car Racing	10	15 Sep 2001 20:01