Grid for German Grand Prix

Kicking-back · 24 Jul 2004, 12:48 (Ref:1045695)

Schumacher - 1:13.305
Montoya - 1:13.667
Raikkonen - 1:13.690
Coulthard - 1:13.821
Alonso - 1:13.874
Trulli - 1:14.134
Barrichello - 1:14.278
Sato - 1:14.286
Panis - 1:14.367
Pizzonia - 1:14.556
Webber - 1:14.802
Button - 1:13.673 (includes 10 place penalty)
Klien - 1:15.011
Fisichella - 1:15.395
da Matta - 1:15.454
Massa - 1:15.616
Pantano - 1:16.192
Heidfeld - 1:16.310
Bruni - 1:18.055
Baumgartner - 1:18.399

Kicking-back · 24 Jul 2004, 12:49 (Ref:1045696)

Good lap from Schumacher - gained it all in the final sector.

McLaren competitive again too, as is Montoya.

**Adam43** · 24 Jul 2004, 12:51 (Ref:1045701)

There was some good driving out there. Schuamcher, Montoya, DC, Alonso all got the best out of their car. IMHO.

Button's time is good too, although I think could have been even quicker if the hairpin ha been nailed.

**Adam43** · 24 Jul 2004, 12:52 (Ref:1045702)

As we are posting things twice:
Here is the round up of times for pre-qual and then qual.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Schumacher - 1:14.042

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Raikkonen - 1:13.842

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Barrichello - 1:14.111

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Button - 1:13.535

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Montoya - 1:13.391

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Fisichella - 1:13.914

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Coulthard - 1:13.640

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Webber - 1:15.093

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Massa - 1:13.899

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Alonso - 1:13.582

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Sato - 1:14.465

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
da Matta - 1:15.119

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Klien - 1:15.090

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Heidfeld - 1:16.538

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Bruni - 1:17.283

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Pantano - 1:16.167

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Trulli - 1:13.737

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Baumgartner - 1:17.515

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Panis - 1:13.641

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Pizzonia - 1:13.422

That's Pre-Qual.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Baumgartner - 1:18.399

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Bruni - 1:18.055

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Heidfeld - 1:16.310

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Pantano - 1:16.192

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
da Matta - 1:15.454

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Webber - 1:14.802

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Klien - 1:15.011

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Sato - 1:14.286

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Barrichello - 1:14.278

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Schumacher - 1:13.305

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Fisichella - 1:15.395

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Massa - 1:15.616

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Raikkonen - 1:13.690

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Trulli - 1:14.134

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Panis - 1:14.367

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Coulthard - 1:13.821

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Alonso - 1:13.874

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Button - 1:13.673

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Pizzonia - 1:14.556

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Montoya - 1:13.667

That’s Qual. proper.

neil_davidson2 · 24 Jul 2004, 12:52 (Ref:1045703)

It could be a tough start for Button, especially if Webber and (more likely) Pizzionia decide that they need to prove something against each other.

Mark Webber · 24 Jul 2004, 12:53 (Ref:1045707)

I think Button will be light as .

Kicking-back · 24 Jul 2004, 12:57 (Ref:1045712)

He may be, he may not be. Such a strategy wouldn't be good for his race, I don't think.

Mark Webber · 24 Jul 2004, 12:59 (Ref:1045714)

I know but to make the best of the 10 spot grid & being close to 1 sec faster than sato it looks a safe bet he is

Kicking-back · 24 Jul 2004, 13:00 (Ref:1045715)

Sato ran much earlier in the session, and for Michelin runners it was gaining grip throughout.

I notice no-one is suggesting Montoya is light and Pizzonia heavy on fuel.

Mark Webber · 24 Jul 2004, 13:01 (Ref:1045716)

I think the difference between jpm & Pizza is a lot different than JB & Sato

DannyG · 24 Jul 2004, 13:02 (Ref:1045719)

Quote:

Originally posted by neil_davidson2
especially if Webber and (more likely) Pizzionia decide that they need to prove something against each other.

I hope not, i dont think Antonio's qual lap was as clean as he would have liked so he should be a bit faster than webber, although Panis may bunch those few up a bit. If Antonio and Button have problems getting past anything could happen. Sato will be amongst them as well.

IMHO the winner will be predictable, but the minor placing should be good, lets hope so

Kicking-back · 24 Jul 2004, 13:03 (Ref:1045720)

JB's only 0.6 faster than TS, not "close to 1 sec".

Kicking-back · 24 Jul 2004, 13:04 (Ref:1045723)

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
There was some good driving out there. Schuamcher, Montoya, DC, Alonso all got the best out of their car. IMHO.

If DC got the best out of the McLaren, how come Kimi was quicker, but doesn't warrant a mention

**Adam43** · 24 Jul 2004, 13:07 (Ref:1045729)

I must have misread your times, subsitute DC for Kimi then. In fact bang them both together because the lap times are similar. DC's lap struck me as being a tidy lap especially after Friday when he spent more time spinning, but yes Kimi was quicker.

dcp2685 · 24 Jul 2004, 13:09 (Ref:1045730)

Montoya looks like he's back on form. That's good to see. Nice clean fast lap. It should be an interesting turn 1 tomorrow.

Do you think Pizzonia and Barrachello are running two stoppers while JPM and Micheal are on 3? Both were about a second off their teammates.....

neil_davidson2 · 24 Jul 2004, 13:11 (Ref:1045732)

The start's going to be fascinating as always, if the Renaults get hooked up from row three I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them right in the mix up into the first corner.

Kicking-back · 24 Jul 2004, 13:36 (Ref:1045754)

Will they all get through the first corner?

Hockenheim history suggests not.

Raven · 24 Jul 2004, 13:38 (Ref:1045760)

The only hope we have for a decent race is if JPM can jump Michael at the start, and that Michael won't run the longest out of the front runners.

**garcon** · 24 Jul 2004, 13:39 (Ref:1045761)

I reckon Kimi would rather avoid a repeat of last year - he's getting married next weekend...

Sodemo · 24 Jul 2004, 16:31 (Ref:1045824)

Does anyone think that Michael is running lighter than predicted?

I doubt very much that JPM will get the jump on TGF down to turn 1.
My prediction is that Kimi will pass JPM down to turn 1, and it will be TGF, Kimi then Montoya into turn 2.

Pitstop · 24 Jul 2004, 16:42 (Ref:1045828)

Quote:

Originally posted by The Monster
Does anyone think that Michael is running lighter than predicted?

I doubt very much that JPM will get the jump on TGF down to turn 1.
My prediction is that Kimi will pass JPM down to turn 1, and it will be TGF, Kimi then Montoya into turn 2.

I'll go along with that, I can't see TGF letting JPM pass him at the 'off' - he has a loooooooooong memory - good job there are no tunnels at Hockenheim!

**Adam43** · 24 Jul 2004, 17:13 (Ref:1045832)

Nothing to do with Montoya, but Michael doesn't let many people get past him at the start, although he is often slow of the line.

However being on an even starting position may be an issue.

Quote:

Kimi
I think it's actually better to start from third than second here at Hockenheim as you are on the inside.

I guess he means second is on the inside and has bad grip. I'm sure that pole is on the racing line on the outside.

BootsOntheSide · 24 Jul 2004, 17:43 (Ref:1045840)

Many circuits do suffer form this problem, where the even-numbered grid slots ar eoff the racing line,a dn eman taht you get less grip off the line. Is Hockenheim particualrly dusty off-line? I'd be surprisedconsdiering that hit's used frequently, but who knows?

**Adam43** · 24 Jul 2004, 18:13 (Ref:1045870)

It's not like Hungary, but I guess it is always a consideration. I can't remember much from previous years in terms of getting of the line.

Bleu · 24 Jul 2004, 18:48 (Ref:1045895)

Ralf had quite a bad start last year from 2nd position, and then it ended in a crash with Rubens (3rd on grid) and Kimi (5th on grid)

Hockenheim has actually one of most accident-frequent first corners as Kicking-back reminds.

In 1994 pile-up
In 1997 Frentzen/Irvine
In 1999 Villeneuve/Diniz
In 2000 M Schumacher/Fisichella
In 2001 M Schumacher/Burti (red flag)
In 2003 pile-up

That makes 6 out of 10.

Let's looks some of the other tracks in last 10 races. I give ½ if there is only minor crash
Melbourne 2/9 (1997, 2002)
Sepang 4/6 (1999, 2000, 2001½, 2002½, 2003)
Interlagos 1½ (1995½, 1997)
Imola 2½ (1998, 1999, 2004½)
Barcelona 2 (1996, 2003)
Monaco 2 (1995, 1996)
Montreal 5 (1997, 1998, 1998, 1999, 2004)
Nürburgring 1½/3 (2002½, 2004) [including only hairpin era]
Magny-Cours 2½ (1995, 1997½, 2002)
Silverstone 1½ (2001, 2002½)
Hungaroring 1½ (1997, 2001½)
Spa 4 (1996, 1998, 1998, 2001)
Monza 2½/4 (2000, 2001, 2002½) [only current chicane]
Indianapolis 1 (2004)
Suzuka 2 (1995, 1996)

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