Group A BMW M3 E30 - General info and history - Page 14

vtgts300kw · 16 Oct 2010, 04:41 (Ref:2775640)

Hi Guys,

I'm trying to find out the history on a E30M3 my father raced in the early 90's in New Zealand, whether it was a JPS car etc. His name is Brett Taylor.

He doesn't remember much other than he said it came from Australia originally and they bought it in either '92 or '93.

They raced the Nissan Mobil Series and won Group A in '93 at Wellington. Prior to that race, they put a fresh engine in it which they got through Bill Byce out of Germany. Seems to remember it been about 20k for a 0 mile.

David Towe has mentioned that Jon Sax owned 2 E30's, my father raced against them in the '93 500 which would rule out the car Sax raced that year.

He vaguely recalls they ended up selling it to an Electrician in Christchurch??

Interestingly, they were trying to buy Longhurst's B&H on the weekend he crashed in '91, but couldn't agree on price. They were racing the JPS 325 that season which I think is the car currently for sale.

If anyone has any snippet of knowledge of the era, i'd be hugely appreciative.

Cheers,

Kurt

brown dog · 16 Oct 2010, 18:55 (Ref:2775851)

Hi Kurt,
I assume this is the car he raced with Alan Cattle? I have a vague recollection of that car, it was mainly white, and I think it was an early Frank Gardner built car. I cannot find any other information here though sorry. I do have a copy of the 1993 Nissan Mobil entrants list, and it shows this car entered in the Gp.A division. It also lists John Sax as entered in his Gp.N car (this will be the car that had the "argument" with Longhurst in 1991) But no pictures or anything other information of it there.

regards
Conrad

vtgts300kw · 16 Oct 2010, 23:38 (Ref:2775946)

Hi Conrad,

He did race with Alan Cattle. The car was mainly white, sponsored by Colliers Jardine and Skin Jeans. We've got photos at home of the car at Wellington, I must remember to grab them next time i'm there.

Cheers,

Kurt

Quote:

Originally Posted by brown dog

Hi Kurt,
I assume this is the car he raced with Alan Cattle? I have a vague recollection of that car, it was mainly white, and I think it was an early Frank Gardner built car. I cannot find any other information here though sorry. I do have a copy of the 1993 Nissan Mobil entrants list, and it shows this car entered in the Gp.A division. It also lists John Sax as entered in his Gp.N car (this will be the car that had the "argument" with Longhurst in 1991) But no pictures or anything other information of it there.

regards
Conrad

David Towe · 17 Oct 2010, 08:01 (Ref:2776003)

That's my first M3, the one I've been racing for 7 years now. If I knew how to post a pic I have got one from the log book in Alan Cattle colours as No. 53 with one yellow mirror and one blue mirror. I was unaware of a co-driver so I didn't make the connection. Sorry Kurt.

vtgts300kw · 17 Oct 2010, 09:47 (Ref:2776089)

Thanks David.

That was easier than I thought then.

I'll try post up some pics I have at home.

Hope the car is running as good as it used to. Used to absolutely sing, passed the factory GT2 round the outside of turn 1 at Pukekohe in '93.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Towe

That's my first M3, the one I've been racing for 7 years now. If I knew how to post a pic I have got one from the log book in Alan Cattle colours as No. 53 with one yellow mirror and one blue mirror. I was unaware of a co-driver so I didn't make the connection. Sorry Kurt.

David Towe · 17 Oct 2010, 11:59 (Ref:2776120)

I'd be interested in seeing the pics. thanks.

vtgts300kw · 18 Oct 2010, 22:52 (Ref:2776889)

could only find this one sorry david as the rest are buried deep down somewhere.

93 in wellington.

blinkybm · 3 Jun 2012, 10:39 (Ref:3084384)

Hi folks, a friend here in Australia has bought this "ex drbob" car and is further researching its history.

It is believed to be one of the two Hartge built cars run by Racing Services at Nurburgring/Spa/Brno WTCC rounds of 1987.

see http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-16-053.jpg

The defining features are the narrower than usual position of the bonnet pins, and the airjack connector on the front bumper. It is believed that these two cars went to Macau in 1988...

Would any of you gentlemen be able to shed any more light?

With many thanks

Bill

[QUOTE=drbob;2129995]Alex here are some other pictures. It looks like where the chassis plate goes has been blanked off (I'm just guessing here)
It otherwise looks like a Group A car

/QUOTE]

KA · 3 Jun 2012, 19:33 (Ref:3084688)

That's interesting- The Racing Services International cars have intrigued me for a while. Any idea how many M3s they had? IIRC they continued into 1988 with the Bastos-sponsored cars, but were they the same chassis used in 1987?

http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-31-075.jpg

...and by the end of the year, one of their M3s seems to have found it's way to the UK- John Maguire's team ran an ex-RSI car alongside the existing M3 they'd run for Godfrey Hall at the TT and the last couple of BTCC rounds- the RSI car was resprayed black to match the existing Hall car.
You can just pick out the airjack connector on the front bumper... http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-04-085.jpg

Godfrey Hall continued with a Maguire M3 in 1989, but it was a single-car effort. So what happened to this second Maguire car sourced from RSI? If two Hartge/RSI cars went to Macau at the end of 1988, could the black Maguire/FFB car have been one of them, or did RSI have more than two M3s?

Who were the M3 privateers at Macau in 1988? Kevin Wong finished 9th, but the only other M3s listed by Frank de Jong are the two works Schnitzer cars
http://touringcarracing.net/Races/1988%20Macau.html

Jesper OH · 4 Jun 2012, 13:53 (Ref:3085113)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_scAHWw5xhs

From this clip, I'm spotting five M3 at Macau Guia 1988: the two red/gold Schnitzer cars and at about 3m15s three white M3s. One of these most be Kevin Wong then, while I have another as #6. What about Charles Kwang as a candidate for one of the remaining cars? He used to be racing in the Guia race every year.

Jesper

blinkybm · 5 Jun 2012, 13:06 (Ref:3085607)

Hi KA, there were three RSI Bastos M3's at Spa in 87:

Car#44 http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-02-044.jpg which looks like a Matter / Motorsport shell, with the airjack connector on the scuttle, wider set bonnet pins, and the raised harness mount on the rear parcel shelf. Not our car.

Car #58 Hartge built, Alloy cage and features same as #59 which are on our car. One previous owner/driver has mentioned the car spending time in the BTCC, this could make it the John Maguire car http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-04-085.jpg after a steel cage was fitted? It could then have gone to Macau late in 88?

Car #59, http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-02-059.jpg also built by Hartge with alloy cage, narrower set bonnet pins, and the airjack connector in the bumper. http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...987%20Spa.html It had marker lights on the roof for the endurance races. This could make it car #75 at Spa in 88 http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-31-075.jpg

At Brno 87 there were two RSI Bastos cars

#53 same bonnet pins and air connector, probably car # 58 from Spa http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-16-053.jpg

#59 as at Spa http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-16-059.jpg

Both these cars are now in Australia and undergoing restoration. Our CAMS requirements are for a "continuous line of history" hence the thorough research !!

Bill

blinkybm · 5 Jun 2012, 13:18 (Ref:3085616)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_scAHWw5xhs

...and at about 3m15s three white M3s. .....
Jesper

Its very hard to see, but the first of these three M3's looks like it has an air connector in the front bumper

Bill

David Towe · 5 Jun 2012, 13:24 (Ref:3085619)

Bill, have you thought of asking DrBob what he came up with when he was doing research for the car that Seton was driving at Muscle Car Masters etc? His car had Macau history IIRC. Where are the rear air jacks in the Bastos car in question, in front or behind the rear wheels?

blinkybm · 5 Jun 2012, 13:45 (Ref:3085624)

Hi Dave, have got as much as possible from drbob, now working backwards through the owners...
Rear jacks behind the wheels.
Bill

**chunterer** · 5 Jun 2012, 17:55 (Ref:3085745)

So the car that David Sears drove in the Uk towards the end of 1988, latterly in the BTCC, that was thought of as a possible Sytner baiter organised by Rouse, is now in Australia? Wow that car has had some serious movement.

Kookaburra61 · 6 Jun 2012, 13:30 (Ref:3086260)

Hi all, thought I would join the forum as it is my car that is being discussed, thanks blinky for starting the discussion.
The one interesting fact about the car is although it has the boot lid cutouts for the rear fuel fillers, this car does not have the alterations to the body panel between the taillights that the other RSI/Bastos car has. It would appear that this boot lid is from the other car.
Looking at the youtube video of the 1987 Macau race, the 2 ex-bastos cars appear to be running in the same colour scheme but different sponsors. The no15 Telerate car has no evidence of rear fuel fillers, the No25 Castrol car does. Can anyone confirm whether one of the 1987 Bastos cars did not have external fuel fillers?

DAVID PATERSON · 15 Jun 2012, 03:41 (Ref:3091228)

G'day Kookaburra, welcome to the forum. I hope you will be competing in Historic Group A when the restoration is completed.

KA · 17 Jun 2012, 12:42 (Ref:3093574)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_scAHWw5xhs

From this clip, I'm spotting five M3 at Macau Guia 1988: the two red/gold Schnitzer cars and at about 3m15s three white M3s. One of these most be Kevin Wong then, while I have another as #6. What about Charles Kwang as a candidate for one of the remaining cars? He used to be racing in the Guia race every year.

Jesper

Thanks Jesper- a bit of digging around reveals a report of Macau 1988, including a complete entry list and some pics- There's one slight problem, can anyone read Chinese?

http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/in...-54&Itemid=115

The Guia report is here on Page 2
http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/in...5&limitstart=1

The entry list is a mix of English and Chinese- (I suspect the names listed in Chinese are the local guys?), so the only M3 driver I can identify other than the works/Schnitzer pair is #35, Tom Waring, who from vague memory might have been a Hong-Kong-based Brit who appeared at Macau a few times in the 80's in Corollas and M3s.

M3 race numbers are #2 (Heger), #3 (Oestreich), #6 & #11 (One of these is presumably Kevin Wong, who finished 9th) and #35 (Waring)
A couple of pics- Car #11 leading what I'm guessing is #6- Both seem to have the airjack connector on the front bumper
http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...2/set_21/4.jpg

I've attached a screencap of the #35 Waring car from the Youtube clip...It's a bit blurry, but does that also have an airjack connector on the bumper? It's at around 9m:55 on the video if it helps...

KA · 17 Jun 2012, 13:14 (Ref:3093617)

...and even better, from the 1987 report, a couple of pics showing an unsignwritten, Bastos-liveried M3...

http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...c/set_54/1.jpg
http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...c/set_54/2.jpg

M3s on the 1987 entry list are:

#3 Roberto Ravaglia- red Schnitzer/Hilton car: http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...c/set_42/4.jpg
#7 Dieter Quester- red Schnitzer/Hilton car: http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...c/set_41/7.jpg
#8 Fabien Giroix- white Schnitzer/Hilton car: http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...c/set_43/4.jpg
#15 Thomas Waring- According to kookaburra's post above, this must be the Telerate-sponsored Bastos/RSI car
#4 Titikorn Pong
and #25 David Hunt- a Caltex-sponsored car- in Bastos colours: http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...c/set_44/4.jpg
http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...b/set_36/6.jpg

davyboy · 11 Jul 2012, 08:11 (Ref:3104969)

An ex-Bigazzi car up for sale here today.

**chunterer** · 11 Jul 2012, 20:26 (Ref:3105317)

Is that the one Vic Lee bought that Jeff Allam ran in 1990?

ian beckett · 12 Jul 2012, 13:06 (Ref:3105592)

No,the car Vic Lee bought from Bigazzi was the car they ran in 1989 in the white with red and yellow markings backed by Monteshell,Ian.

Jesper OH · 12 Jul 2012, 16:51 (Ref:3105665)

I think the car for sale, could be a car from the Italian division 2; cars complying to an earlier specification group A than the then current division 1. My guess is a ca. 1990 car.

Jesper

blinkybm · 13 Jul 2012, 10:31 (Ref:3105972)

And another for sale http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listin...tm_winner.html

ex Van de Poele 87 DTM winning car

Flying Dutchman · 17 Jul 2012, 00:56 (Ref:3107427)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

...and even better, from the 1987 report, a couple of pics showing an unsignwritten, Bastos-liveried M3...

http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...c/set_54/1.jpg
http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...c/set_54/2.jpg

M3s on the 1987 entry list are:

#3 Roberto Ravaglia- red Schnitzer/Hilton car: http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...c/set_42/4.jpg
#7 Dieter Quester- red Schnitzer/Hilton car: http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...c/set_41/7.jpg
#8 Fabien Giroix- white Schnitzer/Hilton car: http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...c/set_43/4.jpg
#15 Thomas Waring- According to kookaburra's post above, this must be the Telerate-sponsored Bastos/RSI car
#4 Titikorn Pong
and #25 David Hunt- a Caltex-sponsored car- in Bastos colours: http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...c/set_44/4.jpg
http://www.motofan.com.hk/motofan/im...b/set_36/6.jpg

This is the car #4 you talked about. He's from Thailand.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Will Hoy's Securicor E30 M3	johnw	Motorsport History	16	18 Jul 2015 11:38
BMW M3 E30 - Group A/DTM 1987-92	brown dog	The Chassis History Archive	146	28 Aug 2014 19:32
RE: BMW M3 E36 Group N, looking for History	ALong	Motorsport History	5	24 Sep 2013 21:12
E30 M3 on a Diet...	Highside	Racing Technology	5	4 Aug 2006 15:34
[Online] e30 m3 screensaver	samfre	Armchair Enthusiast	2	10 Aug 2004 07:12