Group A BMW M3 E30 - General info and history - Page 15

davyboy · 20 Jul 2012, 13:51 (Ref:3109055)

A rally Group A machine for sale here at an eye watering GBP165K ! Must be a typo.

brown dog · 20 Jul 2012, 20:50 (Ref:3109240)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

A rally Group A machine for sale here at an eye watering GBP165K ! Must be a typo.

That is a circuit car, and probably not a typo!

Conrad

davyboy · 21 Jul 2012, 11:18 (Ref:3109428)

Quote:

Originally Posted by brown dog

That is a circuit car, and probably not a typo!

Conrad

Yes you're right its ex-DTM... sorry I got mixed up betwixt the 2.3L one for sale on their web site. They've two E30 M3s for sale it appears. GBP165K is still very very expensive for a pukka circuit M3.

davyboy · 25 Jul 2012, 07:27 (Ref:3111118)

Another ex-DTM one up for sale here. There seems to be a glut of them on the market right now

stuart thompson · 12 Aug 2012, 18:05 (Ref:3119032)

Iv heard of certain models of road going E30 s going for around £100 k so £165 k sounds about right for an historical value model.

KA · 3 Apr 2013, 20:44 (Ref:3228763)

Tripped over something by accident earlier, which seems to raise a bit of a puzzle- I'd always been under the impression that Will Hoy's 1991 championship-winning VLR M3 became Matt Neal's black 1992 car, a fact which Ian confirmed, with the added detail that it went to South Africa, along with the ex-Laurence Bristow Labatt's car...

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

If I'm reading you correctly Ian, by a process of elimination, this means Hoy's championship-winning car was sold on and became the black Rimstock car used by Matt Neal for most of the '92 season? As I remember, it was damaged in a shunt late season and Neal did the last round in a 318iS Coupe (the ex-McRae Prodrive car from Knockhill by any chance?)
Any idea where the M3 went after that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian beckett

This car is currently in South Africa also where it was found in a sorry state of neglect.It is currently being rebuilt but sadly as a Warsteiner/Schnitzer replica.

Now, I've found something on the website of a South African BMW specialist about an ex-BTCC M3 sold to South African car dealer and racer Farouk Dangor in the early 90's, which describes Dangor's car as the ex-Hoy VLR car:
http://www.evolution2.co.za/new-proj...uring-car.html

However, looking through the picture galleries accompanying this, there's a shot of the Dangor car on the back of a truck, presumably soon after arriving in South Africa, as it's still in it's BTCC colours-

http://www.evolution2.co.za/new-proj...tmpl=component

and it's very obviously the ex-Sean Walker Techspeed/Auto Trader car, which according to the 1992 BTCC Yearbook, was an ex-Prodrive chassis....

So, it looks as if there's been a bit of a misidentification of the history of the Dangor car- However, we do seem to have another ex-BTCC M3 alive and well in South Africa. (Incidentally, which Prodrive cars did Techspeed have?)

More pics:

http://www.evolution2.co.za/new-proj...g-gallery.html

ian beckett · 4 Apr 2013, 08:10 (Ref:3228944)

Hi KA,as far as I know there are three ex-BTCC M3's now in South Africa, the ex-Matt Neal,ex Will Hoy/Vic Lee championship winning car which is being slowly restored but in DTM Warsteiner livery; the ex-Vic Lee/Laurence Bristow car which he raced in blue/red/yellow and is still in those colours and has done a little bit of club racing and the car you have recently found owned and recently restored by Farouk Dangor. This is the ex Sean Walker Techspeed car which was for sale in Autosport late '92 for £29,500 and was obviously bought by Dangor.Hope this helps,Ian.

**chunterer** · 4 Apr 2013, 13:07 (Ref:3229080)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian beckett

Hi KA,as far as I know there are three ex-BTCC M3's now in South Africa, the ex-Matt Neal,ex Will Hoy/Vic Lee championship winning car which is being slowly restored but in DTM Warsteiner livery; the ex-Vic Lee/Laurence Bristow car which he raced in blue/red/yellow and is still in those colours and has done a little bit of club racing and the car you have recently found owned and recently restored by Farouk Dangor. This is the ex Sean Walker Techspeed car which was for sale in Autosport late '92 for £29,500 and was obviously bought by Dangor.Hope this helps,Ian.

Obvious question time!

Why 'restore' a VLM BTCC 2-litre car into Warsteiner DTM livery??!!

ian beckett · 4 Apr 2013, 13:33 (Ref:3229093)

This was asked of the guy who started the original restoration and he could not give a very convincing answer. I think he was doing it on the cheap and to make a profit and it seems likely he chose the DTM livery as likely to command the most interest? The Warsteiner/factory livery has certainly been the version that has the most clone copies.

CLRM3 · 4 Apr 2013, 19:33 (Ref:3229263)

Hi,
have any one some Infos to Josef Zenner? He Run in 94/95 a 92 BMW M3 E30 in Malysian Touringcar.
Best Regards
Christian Löhr

**chunterer** · 5 Apr 2013, 19:14 (Ref:3229649)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian beckett

This was asked of the guy who started the original restoration and he could not give a very convincing answer. I think he was doing it on the cheap and to make a profit and it seems likely he chose the DTM livery as likely to command the most interest? The Warsteiner/factory livery has certainly been the version that has the most clone copies.

Thanks for the insight, sadly I figured this would be the case..

It's daft when there's more works liveried cars about than there was in the day, especially when not all of them are 'real'

The guy should make his car into the one that won a championship, a title winning car will always have provenance and far better value, in period livery than a wannabe!!!!

Mike Bell · 6 Apr 2013, 06:28 (Ref:3229842)

Unfortunately James, in the world of classic cars and old race cars there are those that are looking for the quick buck rather than protecting provenance!

IMHO a car will be worth more in time painted in original livery, but sometimes that could be many years away. Patience is a virtue, they say!

**chunterer** · 6 Apr 2013, 19:35 (Ref:3230034)

Yup with you Mike, theres quite a few original cars wearing the wrong clothes, some intentionally, some not so! I think that quality period replicas are essential in historic racing too. It makes more sense to livery up a replica in a famous or fav livery rather
than take an original title winning car, well known in it's own and make into something else.

brown dog · 6 Apr 2013, 20:23 (Ref:3230051)

In many cases is actually cheaper to buy an original Gp.A (or BTCC/DTM) M3 and livery it up as whatever you want, than to build a replica from scratch, with all correct parts, using a road car as base. I would suggest that is what has happened with a lot of these cars.
A lot of the BTCC cars have been converted from 2.0L to 2.3L or 2.5L, to make them more competitive in whatever series they are running in. Not correct, but fairly easy to convert back if desired.
While I don't really agree with it, I think that is what is happening, and probably won't stop until the value of an original car gets to the point where it becomes uneconomical to do so.
The price of a Gp.A or DTM M3 is still not at the brand new price that they were 20-25 years ago, but getting close

Conrad

davyboy · 7 Apr 2013, 08:30 (Ref:3230244)

Maybe we should go out and buy something like this now and shove it in dry storage for 15 years.

GBRM · 24 Apr 2013, 13:55 (Ref:3238904)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyPet

What I am looking for are photos of the Llewellyn car in 1989 and the Flux entry of 1991 to fill in the gaps, but I think this is probably the chain of events that my chassis (M3 1 068) underwent.

I have Googled to death Llewellyn in 1989 and Flux in 1991 and come up with nothing.
Anyone have any photos of the Ronic car from 1989, or the Burke-Ratcliff / Flux car in 1991 to help me fill in the blanks?

Jimmy - I've PM'd you, I have a picture of your car from 1989 with my late father driving it...

Andy Clegg · 24 Apr 2013, 15:05 (Ref:3238924)

I took this at the 1991 GP meeting.

JimmyPet · 8 May 2013, 04:50 (Ref:3244172)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBRM

Jimmy - I've PM'd you, I have a picture of your car from 1989 with my late father driving it...

Gregor,
PM replied, sorry for the delay. I need to stop in here more often.

JimmyPet · 8 May 2013, 05:00 (Ref:3244173)

Quote:

Originally Posted by brown dog

In many cases is actually cheaper to buy an original Gp.A (or BTCC/DTM) M3 and livery it up as whatever you want, than to build a replica from scratch, with all correct parts, using a road car as base. I would suggest that is what has happened with a lot of these cars.
A lot of the BTCC cars have been converted from 2.0L to 2.3L or 2.5L, to make them more competitive in whatever series they are running in. Not correct, but fairly easy to convert back if desired.
While I don't really agree with it, I think that is what is happening, and probably won't stop until the value of an original car gets to the point where it becomes uneconomical to do so.
The price of a Gp.A or DTM M3 is still not at the brand new price that they were 20-25 years ago, but getting close

Conrad

I actually just converted my ex Prodrive / RKR car back to 2.3.
It had a 2.0 in it when I purchased it, but when it raced at Prodrive it was a 2.3, so that seemed like the right thing to put in it since thats the livery I chose to replicate on it. I have the 2.0 safely stored in a heated space, sealed in shrink wrap.

After e-meeting Jason Kennedy (son of Roy Kennedy) on this forum who filled in every blank space, or assumption I had on the car (thanks my friend).
I now know what I believe to be every livery the car ever wore and I think almost everyone who drove it.

Going back to a previous post,,, I cannot imagine what would possess the current owner of the Hoy / Lee car to restore it into a Warsteiner livery.
That is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
What I (or many others) wouldn't give to also own that chassis and put it back to exactly the way it was when Hoy drove it,,, and he's doing a Warsteiner livery... The most played out E30 M3 livery in the history of the car.

Speedycarsales · 12 Aug 2013, 19:34 (Ref:3288952)

Hi guys ,

We are busy restoring the Sean walker m3. Evolution 2 Motorsport is the company restoring it. My dad raced the car in 1992 and 93 season. He had imported the m3 via Matt Neal. He is still a good friend of ours. The reason for restoring the car is , when my dad stopped racing his mechanic had stripped all the parts and sold it off to various people and we were unaware of this. So after many years of just having bits and pieces we decided to get it back on the circuits. Will keep you all posted.it should be done in a week or so. You can follow us @speedycarsales for progress on the car.

**John Turner** · 19 Aug 2013, 08:10 (Ref:3291613)

Welcome, but I think you need a Twitter account to view this.

I thought the Sean Walker car was the Auto Trader/Canon sponsored car or was that a bit earlier?

Ads81 · 31 Aug 2013, 20:22 (Ref:3296749)

If any one knows of any 1990 to 1995 btcc cars for sale please let me know, any condition.

Regards

Adam

d.nikolov · 25 Sep 2013, 08:09 (Ref:3309094)

Here is another car: https://www.facebook.com/MironiRacingTeam?ref=hl Linder 006.LI.88

Graham Clayton · 10 May 2014, 01:12 (Ref:3404357)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian beckett

No,the car Vic Lee bought from Bigazzi was the car they ran in 1989 in the white with red and yellow markings backed by Monteshell,Ian.

Ian,
Is this the same car?

PeterJ. · 6 Aug 2014, 06:08 (Ref:3441846)

A long shot David but just checking if the 2.0Lt S14 crank you mentioned is still for sale?

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