TLs, TLs, TLs??? - Page 8

raymond · 20 Jun 2013, 07:43 (Ref:3265318)

Hi All;
Above are all good ideas, but not new. They have been on the table for 12 months now. Ideally it could be a solution but other factors such as Championship structure (where the classes will race) and agreements within the franchise holders come into play.

Slowly it seems that things may come together, but I thought that was happening in January after a pretty positive meeting of all groups. Now we have letters circulating that just add more negativity to the whole process. At times I fear that it will deteriate into a process of attrition...the absolute worst case scenario.

Icarus_nz · 20 Jun 2013, 08:34 (Ref:3265333)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidewayz

Firstly, Drake stated on the Puke show that the running cost of a ST for a season (to race at Hampton and Pukekohe), was 250k, which i my eyes is a stupid amount of money to run a control car.
On the other hand i was told, from a very good source that one of the TLX boys spend only 50k for the season, which including the 2 south island rounds.

7 rounds
1 set of rubber per round x $1500 = $10500 season
Fuel per round assuming 100 laps per meeting x 1.8l/lap x $2.20 = $2700 season
Front rotors x 1000 set x 3 set = $3000
Brake pads x $400 a set x 5 sets = $2000

See how it works? (And not even particularly realistic costs)

So now, oils, filters, gearbox and diff maintenance costs, engine rebuild, etc.

You might be able to keep it under 50k.

Now do the same exercise with travel, accomodation, food, teamgear etc for the people required to run the car.
Doubtless they'll all work for free of course.

How will you get your car to the track?

Signwriting ain't cheap

I could go on but maybe the better way to learn this lesson would be to commit to a full season and start with 50k cash.

And do you know the funny thing? It doesn't matter whether you run a ute, a Formula Ford or a GT car, most of these costs are fixed

Staying at home and racing your local track is afforable. NZ Championships are not. which is why, in tight economic times, people stay close to home.

HProject · 20 Jun 2013, 11:24 (Ref:3265400)

For what it's worth, the Tullock camp (or rather, whoever runs their Facebook page) have said in the past that the TLX could be bought up to the same parity as the SuperTourer. Merge the two categories - then knock together some new regs that can marry the best elements of both platforms into one great race car.

Then call it the 'NZV8 SuperTourers', and hold the handshake ceremony with 'Ebony and Ivory' playing in the background.

Mark Petch · 20 Jun 2013, 22:44 (Ref:3265784)

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymond

There's one (maybe two) already happening with the TLX chassis

Hi Crunch,

Given the cost of converting the Nissan Patrol's bog standard V8 Engine into a 530 plus HP racing spec engine, at a minimum real cost of Circa 100K [Kelly Brothers engines in excess of A$125K each] Then these quote "maybe two" Nissan Altima TLX buyers must have very deep pockets.

Or perhaps they can use the Chevy LS3 engine that the TLX Holden Commodores use, is that a possibility?

Cheers,

Mark.

NZSTfan · 21 Jun 2013, 00:06 (Ref:3265822)

^ I had the same thought to be honest. Assuming Nissan want to use their own branded engines, what will that cost to the client?

Will it be relatively cheap like and LS3, or quite pricey like the TRD engine? (although I am aware that TLX Camrys have paid less for these engines due to certain relationships with TRD).

If it does cost heaps, how much would a turn key Nissan Altima TLX actually cost? Would it be more that the 206k price (plus painting etc) for the ST? One would think so

Swedish Brick · 21 Jun 2013, 00:53 (Ref:3265843)

How much of the Kelly's price is recovering development costs rather than actual engine work cost

NZSTfan · 21 Jun 2013, 02:09 (Ref:3265853)

Surely it must be relatively easy to find out what a Nismo 5L V8 would cost??

assuming it would be a Nismo motor of course

Swedish Brick · 21 Jun 2013, 02:13 (Ref:3265855)

Is it? I haven't seen an official price on the TRD one yet. Only guesses and little birdy quotes. If Nissan don't want to sell to customer teams then the price may not be quoted.

I would imagine if it was a TLX team with official Nissan support the engine cost would be much less to the team, if it costs at all

NZSTfan · 21 Jun 2013, 02:33 (Ref:3265862)

Really? is there still no firm cost on the TRD unit? I find that hard to believe.

Someone out there knows what the TRD cost for both Camrys, because someone has parted with some cash to buy them. Unless of course they were free hand-outs from TRD! (Highly unlikely as TRD are not a charity from what I can tell)

Agree with your final comment above Brick about how a manufacturer team would work with support around the cost of the engine.

Swedish Brick · 21 Jun 2013, 02:42 (Ref:3265864)

Well the only sources quoted on here have been of the little birdy or "I heard" variety so there's no real way of knowing their accuracy. I suspect they cost the teams a similar amount as a coyote or Chev unit would given the team connections. But that's part conjecture on my part.

promax · 21 Jun 2013, 02:43 (Ref:3265865)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

Surely it must be relatively easy to find out what a Nismo 5L V8 would cost??

assuming it would be a Nismo motor of course

maybe there's a 5.6L V8 in the Nissan TLX

DX20VT · 21 Jun 2013, 02:47 (Ref:3265867)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

Really? is there still no firm cost on the TRD unit? I find that hard to believe.

Someone out there knows what the TRD cost for both Camrys, because someone has parted with some cash to buy them. Unless of course they were free hand-outs from TRD! (Highly unlikely as TRD are not a charity from what I can tell)

Possibly the TRD engine price and the Toyota sponsorship have an effect on each other so the true cost may not be known,

and yes someone must have forked out the cash for it,
but does not mean they will tell everyone how much the cheque was for.

DX20VT · 21 Jun 2013, 02:56 (Ref:3265871)

Quote:

Originally Posted by promax

maybe there's a 5.6L V8 in the Nissan TLX

There is more than on Nissan V8 engine.

from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_VK_engine

Quote:

Motorsport
A flat-plane crankshaft version of the VK45DE was used by Nismo for Super GT races with the Nissan GT-R instead of using the GT-R's VR38DETT twin-turbo V6 engine.[1] The VK45DE was previously used in Nissan's 350Z Super GT car, replacing the previous VQ30DETT used in that car in 2007. In race trim, the Super GT VK45DE produces 500 PS (490 hp) and 52 kg·m (510 N·m; 380 lb·ft) of torque.[2] The engine idles at around 3500 RPM and is restricted to the above specified power output. Without such restrictions, the engine is reputedly capable of producing nearly 800 PS (790 hp).[3] Nismo reasons that by using the engine, they eliminate turbo-lag, save weight and generally prefer the torque curve of the atmospheric V8.

No need to redesign the wheel when there is something that suits,
and it's much easier to de-tune something to spec's than to upgrade it to suit,
after all the TLX's have parity from tuning rather than true HP figures anyway dont they?

raymond · 21 Jun 2013, 05:21 (Ref:3265886)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Hi Crunch,

Given the cost of converting the Nissan Patrol's bog standard V8 Engine into a 530 plus HP racing spec engine, at a minimum real cost of Circa 100K [Kelly Brothers engines in excess of A$125K each] Then these quote "maybe two" Nissan Altima TLX buyers must have very deep pockets.

Or perhaps they can use the Chevy LS3 engine that the TLX Holden Commodores use, is that a possibility?

Cheers,

Mark.

I dont know the details and costings, that is thier private business. I do know it is a long standing team

Mark Petch · 22 Jun 2013, 02:09 (Ref:3266287)

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymond

I dont know the details and costings, that is thier private business. I do know it is a long standing team

Raymonde,

I think you might be counting your chickens before they have hatched.

John Manley, Managing Director of Nissan New Zealand said "I have had several calls, from interested parties, including one from Angus Fogg, enquiring about our possible interest in supporting a V8 Touring car program here in New Zealand, and I have told them all, that we have no budget to get involved in any form of New Zealand budget, and furthermore Australia has urged us to focus on leveraging what they are doing in Australia, with Kelly motorsport".

Other than some private individual tacking on some Altima tinware on to a TLX chassis, just to be different, your sources would appear to be stretching the bow some what.

Swedish Brick · 22 Jun 2013, 02:11 (Ref:3266288)

I think the sport has had enough of your sabotage. Probably best to just keep ya nose out if it really

Mark Petch · 22 Jun 2013, 02:28 (Ref:3266290)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

I think the sport has had enough of your sabotage. Probably best to just keep ya nose out if it really

Well Warwick, at least I still have "skin in the game" which is a lot more than keyboard critic's and haters like you, have.

Swedish Brick · 22 Jun 2013, 02:43 (Ref:3266292)

Yeah we all know about that.

promax · 22 Jun 2013, 03:39 (Ref:3266303)

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymond

There's one (maybe two) already happening with the TLX chassis

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymond

I dont know the details and costings, that is thier private business. I do know it is a long standing team

didn't think Raymond mentioned anything about chickens?

someone wants to build one or two Nissan TLX's. there's no mention of the cars being part of a factory team or having factory support? so what's the issue?

NZSTfan · 22 Jun 2013, 03:54 (Ref:3266306)

And the hate wheels just a keep on turnin'
saw the two tlx camrys today at puke. To be honest they sound ok, rather loud I must say but I dont get what all the fuss is about. They sound just a bit deeper and louder than a ford tl. Just my opinion

promax · 22 Jun 2013, 05:10 (Ref:3266312)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

And the hate wheels just a keep on turnin'
saw the two tlx camrys today at puke. To be honest they sound ok, rather loud I must say but I dont get what all the fuss is about. They sound just a bit deeper and louder than a ford tl. Just my opinion

what's the point of your post then?

first those two argue over nothing.. then you post that? is the rain getting to you guys?

Blackpearl · 22 Jun 2013, 10:40 (Ref:3266409)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

Yeah we all know about that.

Warwick, I would personaly donate to mark for his defamation case against you, you have no idea what you are spouting.

Swedish Brick · 22 Jun 2013, 10:50 (Ref:3266413)

Well good luck with that. I've been right that many times on here I've lost count.
Nevertheless I'm sure he would be happy to take your money

NZSTfan · 23 Jun 2013, 00:11 (Ref:3267590)

Quote:

Originally Posted by promax

what's the point of your post then?

first those two argue over nothing.. then you post that? is the rain getting to you guys?

It's called an opinion max. And yeah the rain does suck tbh!
did I hit a nerve making an observation about the beloved camry tlx?

promax · 23 Jun 2013, 00:24 (Ref:3267602)

nope

used to a catty response from you when someone doesn't think ST is the only motorsport class in this country