[BTCC] Rounds 10, 11, 12 - Oulton Park

[Peter Mallett]

If, as it seems, driving standards are creating an issue then surely criticism, not moaning, is deserved? The push to pass thing irritates me no end but it started back in the Supertouring days. Nerfing has been around since the year dot and so falls possibly into the acceptable level of contact, although this is a non contact sport. However constant bumping cannot ever really be good racing. We can all do that there is no skill in it whatsoever.

As I said before if your car is quicker get past don't try to go through. And if you can't get past then live with it.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

If, as it seems, driving standards are creating an issue then surely criticism, not moaning, is deserved?

Agreed - I think one of the issues surrounding the 'discussion' though is people's view of the criticism. At times, it is perceived as being partisan rather than genuine criticism.

Sometimes people need to step back and see that driving standards might be a problem up and down the grid. If it is, then regardless of who the drivers or teams involved are, we need to accept that for the good of the sport (as opposed to the entertainment) the standards need to improve.

Unfortunately, I feel that the BTCC generates too much of a pantomime style rivalry between teams/drivers, and this forgets some of the cost and risk involved in racing the cars.

[Sodemo]

I think the standards have dropped, in the supertouring days there was still contact however it seemed to be more of the side by side rubbing, and less of the "nudge to pass", - that still happened, but it wasn't as frequent, at least not in my mind.

[porsche962fan]

Cook moans about lack of straight line speed


the irony is the Hondas suffered this issue for years....

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Because of course, everyone else on here is always positive about everything BTCC-related?

but I don't claim to like those other series

[porsche962fan]

BTW Cook did a very similar move on Shedden in Race 1 but nobody moans about that for some reason....


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[VIVA GT]

From the two pictures that looks to me like Flash forced Josh onto the kerbs on the inside by shutting the door on him, that caused the Focus onto two wheels which presumably caused an instinctive turn to the left to bring it back down again...

[porsche962fan]

Cook wasn't even half car lengh inside to claim the line watch the footage yourself on lap 14

[Peter Mallett]

I'll say again. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[S griffin]

Flash proves he's a gentleman by giving him a bell to apologise sometimes you just have to accept you are in the wrong and that makes life easier for you, especially from others. I personally think that's why Flash has so much respect up and down the pitlane

I still think the driving are better these days. For me look back at races from 05-07 and 10-12, there were some moments when you felt hardly anyone attempted even a fair attempt at overtaking and it just got out of control. Nowadays you only get one or two meetings when standards drop, but I think there is more respect these days. Witness the Turkington/Sutton/Collard battle in R3

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

but I don't claim to like those other series

From your moaning, it seems like you don't like BTCC either at the moment? Perhaps you would be better off sticking to watching repeats of previous seasons rather than come on here moaning about the 2017 season.

Compared to some other championships, the BTCC has capacity grids, close racing, multiple potential winners and plenty of youth. The only two concerns are the driving standards and long term future of certain teams.
The Honda boys are included in the driving standards criticism, which if that upsets you to hear, perhaps stick to the DC5 era or earlier?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

Cook moans about lack of straight line speed


the irony is the Hondas suffered this issue for years....

I think you'll find they moaned about it at the time too. Not seeing the irony?

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I think you'll find they moaned about it at the time too. Not seeing the irony?

except they didn't get boost increase most of the time

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

except they didn't get boost increase most of the time

But still - where's the irony?



Also - has it been confirmed that Cook's car had a boost increase? The reporting I have seen has said that the cars would be monitored over the weekend, and that they may get an increase - but I have not seen anything that confirms their boost was raised.

You're also conveniently forgetting that the way boost adjustments that were carried out when the Hondas were complaining, is different to the current arrangements.

Previously, the adjustments were made based on a rolling, three-meeting average, calculated against lap time. At the time, Hondas were regularly setting fastest laps so deserved a reduction.

Currently, the adjustments are assessed after three rounds and if necessary then adjustments are made to bring about equal power factors.

Two totally different methods of calculating and applying boost adjustments, for two totally different reasons, and so have no relevance to each other - let alone introduce some misconceived ironic situation.

Again though, you have applied a prejudiced view to a situation to make it appear that the whole world hates Honda, and that the entire championship is set up to make life difficult for them.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Forgive me, I have neither the time or patience to trawl through 16 pages of comments just to make sure I don't tread on well-worn ground, but I wish to make an observation.

Ash Sutton quite simply outthought Colin Turkington throughout the race meeting. Every time they battled wheel to wheel, no matter whether he was behind or in front, Sutton just appeared to be the more intelligent, cunning, and (dare I say) able racer, always ending up ahead, which I found truly remarkable. Indeed, he appeared to do no wrong in the Subaru. Over the weekend, he was quite simply outstanding at overtaking, brilliant and defending, and even recovered from being shoved on the grass by Aiden Moffatt (who seemed a little over exuberant across the weekend) to not only recover the place he lost but pass Moffatt in the process. He was truly inspired. Honestly, for a driver in only his second season, he looks the complete package. Mega in qualifying, awesome in the races, with phenomenal racecraft, what is there he can't do? I wouldn't be at all surprised if Plato had the car where he wanted it over the weekend, I honestly believe Ash has the potential to be that good, and is realising it. I can see a championship challenge coming in the near future (perhaps the very near future), and I can already see a world class driver. Has there been a better performer in the BTCC since Donington?

Sutton was only really done for pace by AJ, but then Jordan was ballast free. He certainly made the most of it though. That was his finest weekend for a good while. Hopefully he can keep that up for the rest of the season. I thought he'd taken to RWD like a duck to water after Brands (he even looked good relative to Turks, which in RWD is saying something for a debut) but faded a little at Donington, and despite him being ludicrously fast around Thruxton in both the Vectra of old and the Civic, he was never going to ace it this year (although Turks managed to).

Poor Ingram had one of those weekends. It reminds me of Mat Jackson back in 2011, when he had the championship lead only to non score in the next 2 race meetings! Hopefully that won't happen, but you can never just assume you'll be up at the front in this championship (unless you're in a Honda - the talk of Neal retiring has faded somewhat). However, less ballast will help him a little.

So onwards to Croft. If anyone can stop the BMWs, I'd have to say Sutton, but who knows? Plato may surprise a few, and no doubt the usual faces will be near the front, particularly those in orange and black...

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

then please watch those and don't come back to moan about soemthing you don't like , that simple

Almost choked on my rich tea biccy reading that. All you seem to do on here is moan about everyone in the BTCC who isn't in a Honda especially Plato. Talk about pot and kettle.

The point is that I do like the BTCC as a concept but the lack of policing of driving standards is letting it down.

[Greem]

Is this where the rest of us moan about the moaning about the moaning?

[thetool]

The only other person as obsessed with Jason Plato is Jason Plato. I'm starting to think Plato has some kind of personality disorder and that porsche962fan is his forum alter ego persona that he uses.

[Rob877]

First visit to Oulton for me and really enjoyed it! First time I've took my 3 year old and I'm pleased to say he absolutely loved it.

I haven't managed to watch my recording back yet, but having read through this thread it looks like I missed quite a lot of the action. Must speak up for the drivers though as from the different places I viewed from on Sunday there was a lot of skilful clean driving. Especially at the chicane with cars sometimes entering 3 a breast and avoiding collision.

Have to agree with the above views on Ash Sutton, a perfect blend of aggression, skill and clean driving. What a star.

Great weekend to be a part of, as always when attending in person. The cars are great to watch at close quarters and the whole paddock is such a friendly and accessible place.

[thlbtcc]

Originally Posted by Rob877

First visit to Oulton for me and really enjoyed it! First time I've took my 3 year old and I'm pleased to say he absolutely loved it.

I haven't managed to watch my recording back yet, but having read through this thread it looks like I missed quite a lot of the action. Must speak up for the drivers though as from the different places I viewed from on Sunday there was a lot of skilful clean driving. Especially at the chicane with cars sometimes entering 3 a breast and avoiding collision.

Have to agree with the above views on Ash Sutton, a perfect blend of aggression, skill and clean driving. What a star.

Great weekend to be a part of, as always when attending in person. The cars are great to watch at close quarters and the whole paddock is such a friendly and accessible place.

Happy to hear that you enjoyed it! Oulton is one of the few places I've never managed to get to, but I agree with the sentiment that the current BTCC package is really enjoyable as a spectator.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by thetool

The only other person as obsessed with Jason Plato is Jason Plato. I'm starting to think Plato has some kind of personality disorder and that porsche962fan is his forum alter ego persona that he uses.

JP is nowhere near that screwed in the head! 😂

[porsche962fan]

Plato to test Sutton's car, quelle surprise


and we know about the boost now

The organisers gave us increased boost on Saturday morning and then increased it a little further on Sunday morning and it made a big difference,

Big thanks to TOCA for measuring the on-track performance of our engines and giving us a little more power. We’re still a little bit down on power but a lot closer than we were, and we’re making progress.

The car still can’t quite do what a Honda and a BMW can do because it hasn’t got the same power.

[thetool]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

Plato to test Sutton's car, quelle surprise

Hi Jason!

[AdrianM]

Know what about the boost now? There's nothing he's saying there that wasn't said during the broadcast.

Makes sense to back-to-back the cars. Get to the bottom for definite if there is an issue. No point in spending a six figure sum (if they've got it) building a new one otherwise.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by AdrianM

Know what about the boost now? There's nothing he's saying there that wasn't said during the broadcast.

Makes sense to back-to-back the cars. Get to the bottom for definite if there is an issue. No point in spending a six figure sum (if they've got it) building a new one otherwise.

I don't see the sense, and eventually the bullsh** train has to stop. The team had already claimed that the car handled well, it was just down on power. Now they've been given more power, but it still can't match a BMW or Honda? They also claimed to know what the problem was, and JP had claimed it was hard to spot, but they had identified it. Now he wants to jump in Sutton's car to work out the difference - I thought they already knew?

Driving Sutton's car (assuming Sutton also drives under the same conditions) will prove one of two things - that Sutton can get the car to perform better, or that Plato's car needs replacing.
If they already know the problem was caused by the crash, they already know it needs replacing. My thought is that BMR have given Plato an ultimatum - prove your as quick as Sutton, and if you can't then you are his support for a title bid.