[LM24 Race] Truth In 24 II

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by deggis

And boohoo for Jason Statham.

I wholeheartedly agree... he's a bit annoying, isn't he?

I think I'll watch this one on Friday night before the 24 Hours, along with my other beloved tradition (1971 feature film)

[TF110]

I rather like Statham. And most of his movies.

[dank]

Originally Posted by TF110

I rather like Statham. And most of his movies.

As do HMV, because without him, their two DVDs for £10 offer could never exist.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by dank

As do HMV, because without him, their two DVDs for £10 offer could never exist.

Sorry I had to...

[Acid09]

Yay, another feature-length Audi commercial.

I wonder if they show or mention Peugeot more than five times during the movie...they didn't during the first one.

[dank]

Missed the point much?

It wasn't a highlights package of the 2008 event, it was a documentary that focused on Audi's efforts at that particular race.

Your gripe would be like me saying that the Senna bio-pic was rubbish because Nigel Mansell or whoever didn't get much of a look in.

[mackteck]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Yay, another feature-length Audi commercial.

I wonder if they show or mention Peugeot more than five times during the movie...they didn't during the first one.

History is written by the winners. ~Alex Haley

[92scotland]

Originally Posted by dank

Missed the point much?

It wasn't a highlights package of the 2008 event, it was a documentary that focused on Audi's efforts at that particular race.

Your gripe would be like me saying that the Senna bio-pic was rubbish because Nigel Mansell or whoever didn't get much of a look in.

Well said. It has been funded by Audi themselves so why can't they show off what they're company is capable of doing? Plus in the first one they mentioned Peugeot the whole way through the film!

[isynge]

Originally Posted by mackteck

History is written by the winners. ~Alex Haley

Alternatively history is written by those who choose to do so - and never more so than now.

Look back at the footage across the years that you can find and there are all sorts of odd instances, 1982's panegyric to Cooke Racing is perhaps the one that really sticks in my mind.

Okay Truth in 24 is a long commercial, and it would be ridiculous to expect the second iteration to be anything different, but the production values they bring to the table and the dramatic pitching of the story all bring it a step beyond the ordinary or the forgettable.

Other car companies spend money on fantastic short films (see Mercedes and "Lucky Star" or "The Porter") - that Audi spend money on a longer feature that they see fit to give away is equally wonderful, as is the fact that there is nothing whatsoever stopping anyone else, victor or loser, using the tableau that Le Mans offers them to product something that attracts this much attention.

[deggis]

I would be more worried about fact bending... the first one and "race deciding" tyre choices.

And showing a bit more general multi-car footage can't hurt. The first movie doesn't really underline the multi-class aspect at all because the other cars are barely seen at all. Kind of funny how empty the track looks in the movie.

[Deleted]

Agreed, it's been a while since I've seen the first ad... umm film but the only non-diesels I remember being mentioned were the Ferraris and Corvettes, but even those just very briefly came up on the Hindy interview ("you can hear when Corvette goes by" IIRC). Also I think they showed a 5-second glimpse of Saleen ending up on gravel trap...

I doubt anything has changed on this regard

[Simmi]

Can't believe I'm actually hearing people complain about TI24. As people have said, the very fact Audi spent money to make the film should be applauded. If you'd won Le Mans you'd want to shout about it, you wouldn't go through the field detailing everyone else. Sometimes the forum does beggar belief in instances like this.

It's a great bit of film-making that captures the essence of Le Mans. Not a 2008 review. If you have a problem with it don't watch it.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Can't believe I'm actually hearing people complain about TI24. As people have said, the very fact Audi spent money to make the film should be applauded.

That makes no sense. If they made a really crap film (not saying TI24 is), should they still be applauded?

It's a great bit of film-making that captures the essence of Le Mans. Not a 2008 review.

Exactly because it is a full-lengtht documentary film it can be reviewed and criticized too. In my opinion it's not the greatest (sports) document ever and it captures only some of the essence. I review it simply as a document film, not as a racing, not as a sportscar and especially not as a Le Mans doc.

If you have a problem with it don't watch it.

Classic. If you have a problem with opposite opinions don't read this thread.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by deggis

Exactly because it is a full-lengtht documentary film it can be reviewed and criticized too. In my opinion it's not the greatest (sports) document ever and it captures only some of the essence. I review it simply as a document film, not as a racing, not as a sportscar and especially not as a Le Mans doc.

I suppose I'm coming at this more from a point of view of - anything that shines a light on the sport I love and opens it up to a new audience is a good thing. I'm not necessarily looking to pick holes in it. But I take all of your points.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Simmi

I suppose I'm coming at this more from a point of view of - anything that shines a light on the sport I love and opens it up to a new audience is a good thing. I'm not necessarily looking to pick holes in it. But I take all of your points.

Well, Truth in 24 isn't really a movie which is going to be shown on the public Tv, is it?. I know it haven't been shown i Denmark, even though Le Mans is a pretty big sports event (as long there isn't soccer).

To me, Truth in 24 is a great full length movie commercial by Audi, nothing less, nothing more. As the general public who doesn't interest themselves that much in Le Mans, other that the weekend it's actually there, won't watch it, i feel that the movie is made for the enthusiast. And the enthusiast isn't that easy to mislead by drama effects.

So all in all, i don't feel that Truth in 24 Hours is in any way damaging or "bad", as 90% who watches it knows what happened, and knows what Le Mans is all about.

[FKWD2]

On purpose, I am not quoting anyone in this thread. Really respect everyones opinion and point of view.
However, if you allow me to shed a bit of light on how those documentary films are made:
In 2008, Audi of America commissioned a film from Intersport/NFL films. A film crew followed the team throughout the season. Team and pit2car radios were recorded, engineers equipped with microphones, "eavesdropping" microphones used to record conversations in the back of the pits (as Rocky and Alex found out the hard way....or the friends from Peugeot on the side to their press conference...).
The live commentaries from Radio Le Mans and Speed were taped and provide the exclusive background to the on-track action with the addition of interviews recorded before and after the race.
I remember talking to the head of marketing for AoA after qualifying and discussing what would eventually come out of this after the Quali result and Sebring and Monza....
What I am saying here: taking the risk to commission such a project is not comparable to producing a commercial- where we are talking about a controlled environment.
It is definitely designed to tell the story of an Audi success and thus build image and awareness for Audi and its participation in the sport.

On the other hand: i accept that these projects do not appeal to everyone, especially if you are a fan of the opposition in said race. It is quite naturally a very narrow focus on the Audi Sport Point of view. Aside from the natural "bias" you have when working for one side, there is the simple fact of access to material that prevents you to tell the story of other manufacturers in equal depth.
So we can only leave that to their own projects (and a number of them have been quoted here) and to the excellent recollection of the race in the ACO's own DVD. That one does indeed give a balanced account of also the other classes in the race.

No offense, everyone, but the bit I really hope for is that all those projects combined are advertising/commercials FOR THE SPORT and will continue to build the image of endurance racing with people who previously haven't seen this (also through national TV stations ;-)

[Simmi]

Nice one Florian thanks for stopping by!

Can't wait to see the second TI24 when it comes out

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Can't believe I'm actually hearing people complain about TI24. As people have said, the very fact Audi spent money to make the film should be applauded.

Oh come on, don't act like they do it because they're nice people. They're getting their moneys worth from the movie in terms of PR, that's why they spend the money.

The first movie did barely anything to explain Le Mans as a whole. It didn't touch on the history, it didn't bother to show the other competitors, all we saw was how awesome Audi was.

People who don't know anything about Le Mans are not wiser after watching it, Audi has the great chance to really educate a big audience about Le Mans but they don't... instead they focus on promoting their own efforts and that's it.

Nothing's wrong with that in the same way that nothing's wrong with commercials. But people shouldn't act like they're selflessly doing a service to anybody with these movies... if they really would want to promote sports car racing and Le Mans as a whole these movies would look a lot differently.

What kind of special access would have been required to at least shortly touch on the race in the other classes? They had cameras around the track and access like every other media outlet, I hardly think that the ACO forbid them to cover the race more in-depth.

Same goes for some history stuff, they could have shown some old footage, give a rundown of past winners etc. That would have made it a documentary instead of a commercial. But viewers were purposely left in the dark about anything not related to Audi because it could have hurted the narrative that Audi is the greatest manufacturer ever to race at Le Mans. One would think that after ten years of domination at Le Mans, Audi would not feel threatened and be able to comfortably give others the coverage they deserve... but apparently that's not the case.

I had really high hopes for the first one after seeing the trailer as it was packed with all kinds of racing footage. The final result was disappointing, I didn't expect a propaganda piece.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Acid09

The first movie did barely anything to explain Le Mans as a whole. It didn't touch on the history, it didn't bother to show the other competitors, all we saw was how awesome Audi was.

People who don't know anything about Le Mans are not wiser after watching it, Audi has the great chance to really educate a big audience about Le Mans but they don't... instead they focus on promoting their own efforts and that's it.

I was under the impression you'd watched Truth In 24? Clearly not. Maybe you forgot the countless reels of archive footage shown ahead of the race sequences.

They explain how features on road cars like wipers, headlights etc were all pioneered at Le Mans. They explain how champagne was sprayed for the first time at LM. They show the track, the ambience of the city and the parade. They have Hindy talking about multi-class sportscar racing.

They also showed themselves making tactical errors and basically getting their ass handed to them by Peugeot in the early season. They show their team smoking, swearing and at their rawest in terms of emotions.

Maybe you need to watch it again?

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Simmi

I was under the impression you'd watched Truth In 24? Clearly not.

I did, hence my disappointment because I expected a documentary which it clearly wasn't.

Originally Posted by Simmi

They also showed themselves making tactical errors and basically getting their ass handed to them by Peugeot in the early season. They show their team smoking, swearing and at their rawest in terms of emotions.

So? That was just part of the piece to show off how the team prevailed under difficult conditions yada yada yada....

Another question: Do you believe these films would have been released if Peugeot had won in 2008 and/or 2011?

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Acid09

I did, hence my disappointment because I expected a documentary which it clearly wasn't.

You clearly either watched an edited version or you edited it yourself subconsciously.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Simmi

You clearly either watched an edited version or you edited it yourself subconsciously.

No, we just have a different definition of the term documentary it seems.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Acid09

No, we just have a different definition of the term documentary it seems.

Maybe it would help if you stated yours? Right now it just looks like the usual Audi hate.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Maybe it would help if you stated yours? Right now it just looks like the usual Audi hate.

I did above. A documentary would have touched on the race as a whole, would have (I'm only talking about brief segments, Audi could have still be the main focus) shown the other classes etc.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Acid09

I did above. A documentary would have touched on the race as a whole, would have (I'm only talking about brief segments, Audi could have still be the main focus) shown the other classes etc.

It was a documentary about Audi's season and performance at Le Mans. What does the GT2 battle have to do with that?

To ask whether they would make a documentary on the 2009 race is missing the point. I'm not trying to deny some of the motives they had behind it. But I think calling it a propaganda piece is pretty extreme - especially when they showed a bunch of things you claim they didn't.