1950's 500cc single seaters

[djb]

It's been about 20 years since I have seen one of these things, and I don't recall the details that well. They used 500cc singles from bikes didn't they? Didn't Moss's father buy him one, and didn't he dominate the races from right on? I imagine that they were the entry level of 4 wheel racing at the time, being farily straightforward and easy to work on. Sort of the equivelent to karts nowadays.

Amyhoo, was just fishing for some more details of them. When they were introduced; until when; what bike engines were used (I'm assuming Nortons et co.) and if there were many chassis builders.

The image that comes to mind of them are the drivers hanging out the sides while cornering to get as much weight to the inside and down.

[Marshal]

All sorts of people raced 500 F3 in the 50's, Moss was obviously the most famous exponent, but Peter Collins, Ken Tyrell, bernie Ecclestone and Jim Russell al cut their teeth in them.

The chassis were largely Coopers, but a plethora of other manufacturers did make cars, probably Kieft being the next most successful, and lots of engineers built their own cars for the formula. As for engines, Norton did dominate, but JAP engines were also fairly common.

As for seeing them, if you could get hold of a video of any of the Goodwood Revival meetings, there has been a full field racing at all 3 years.

[Ray Bell]

They were a product of the desire to get racing in a world that was a shambles after a huge war.

All around the world there were people who'd just been getting adrenalin highs in military service and thought that racing cars might help them continue so doing. And they had, as has recently been pointed out elsewhere, some military severance pay in many cases.

But they weren't alone. As Moss was only 18 when he got his, clearly he relied on Dad's funding, while others scratched together cars for themselves by all sorts of means.

Norton and JAP were the popular engines, and it's also worth noting that a 500 of the popular makeup presented a smaller frontal area to the breeze than a bike with its rider sitting astride the saddle, so they had plenty of speed.

Some people, of course, tried to be more conventional than the rear-engined and motorcyle-engined route, with Fiat 500 engines etc, but they were soon shown the error of their ways. Cars would have been completed by the end of 1946, I would say, and Australian Motor Sport clearly shows that interest here was well underway at that time, too.

In fact, the very first issue of this magazine - February, 1946 - poses the question of what might form a cheap way of getting cars to the grid. A letter in the second issue mentions that the English racers had 500cc cars under way and that these might be a good thing. The letter's writer speaks of a projected car weight of a quarter of a ton, with 30 to 40 horsepower available, asking the motorcycling readers to pass on information about suitable engines.

By July there was a major article with a suggestion for a car layout from the Editor, this using a backbone frame and mounting the engine and gearbox (motorcycle units) at the front, at the same time suggesting several points to be included in a formula to help keep costs down... including a one-gallon fuel tank to help reduce the used of more potent fuels... He also mentions that one car was already running and six more under construction, and says that it was a class of racing which, "if England is any example, is going to become popular."

So there is evidence that racing was well and truly happening by mid-1946 in England.

It wasn't long before the 1000cc JAP V-twin was being substituted for the 500 single, by the way, and cars were travelling to the Continent to contest F2 races.

As to the end of the formula, it died out when Formula Junior came into vogue, probably seeing its last full fields in England in 1960. FJr was an Italian invention (from Count Johnny Lurani) and started out with 1000cc and front engines in 1958. By 1961 1100cc engines were allowed with a slightly higher minimum weight, and the proliferation of Lotus and Cooper cars with suitable engines from Ford and BMC meant the front engined models had their day.

Still, about 13 years, not bad for a formula.

[Hans.ca]

I'm looking at a copy of the "500c.c. Motor Racing Year Book 1952" as published by Pearl, Cooper Ltd. It has many interesting photos and good articles describing construction etc.
One photo is titled "The 500 Spirit" Eric Brandon and Stirling Moss during one of the 1951 season's most thrilling events, the 500 c.c. International Trophy race at Goodwood on May 14th. Determination, concentrated effort and the joy of racing are all captured in this fine photo by Geoffrey Goddard.
Anybody interested in this formula needs a copy of this book.
In Toronto we had a car built by a Mr. Jordan called the Jordan Special and usually driven by Don Haddow, a motor cycle racer. The car was built from two Fiat Dopolino front axles and had a home built 500 cc engine. The body was formed from Aluminium. Mr Jordan was the first to my knowledge to use a rolling machine to form the body work. The upper wheel was supported from a post fastened to the ceiling (in the cellar) and the lower wheel was supported on a post sitting on the floor. Fine adjustment could be made with screws moving the top axle. Coming home from a race Jordan would take the car appart and carry it down the cellar piece by piece so he could get it ready for the next race.
Later Bill Sadler also built a Formula 3 car but I don't think it ever raced.
There are still some of these cars racing in Canada as formula 4 I think.

[djb]

Thankyou gents as usual for the info, details and an interesting read. For reasons unbeknownst, thoughts of the 500's popped into the old noggin while sitting and watching the Austrian GP yesterday morning...

[Ray Bell]

You should be advised that they weren't all made out of ex-aircraft fuel tanks... look at this streamliner Coopers built for a race at Avus...

[djb]

Pretty little thing isn't it. Any details of engine displacement, top speeds etc Ray? If it had a 1000cc, I'd hazard a guess at 120? By the way, where and what sort of track was Avus, was it this brickyard looking spot in the photo?

[TimD]

I'm really not up on Cooper streamliner cars, but I think there's a 1000cc JAP motor in there somewhere.

Avus was/is a fast circuit in Berlin. The banking was a 180 degree turn at one end, which fell into disuse with the partition of the city - it being in the wrong sector.

The remainder of Avus was used at least until 1996 by the DTM, and possibly even more recently than that.

Wasn't it the Avus banking which is responsible for that extraordinary shot of Richard von Frankenberg's Porsche Spyder flying off the top? von Frankenberg fell into the car park below, and actually survived the accident.

[SL]

Tim,

As usual I suspect you are correct.

Avus being unusual in that the banking was at a flat angle, that is at an exact degree to the horizantal rather than the curved slope to the angle that creates high speeds. Avus was also paved, making a very slippery surface.

Going back to F500. These were quite fast cars in their day with a very good power / weight ratio. Most were Norton 500's with the odd JAP. They were much like carts in that once speed was obtained cornering at the highest speed was preferable. Listen to the 500 cars at Goodwood, some barely lift off the throttle during the lap and no doubt where Moss and others learned the skills for the future.

Simon

[Ray Bell]

Actually, John Cooper won at Avus in this car, and it was a 500cc engine! I don't have any results other than that, but I bet it averaged higher than the winner of the 800cc race in 1938... 90.9mph.

The classic movie of 500s is a shot in the Shell series. There's a high-speed pan of a 500 at Silverstone or Goodwood in a sweeper in the wet, it spins and continues without losing any momentum, all filmed from inside the corner...

[Roger Clark]

Cooper averaged 93.58mph, despite being involved in a first lap accident that meant he had to get out and push start. His fastest lap was 3min 2sec which I calculate to be an average speed of almost 102mph

[Ray Bell]

Quite a performance, Roger!

What strikes me as strange is that they had a race for 800cc cars before the war... that was 1933, the winning car was an MG.

What were the Grenzlandring average speeds, by the way?

[sat]

For example in F2 race 1950 won Karl Kling in Veritas - average speed 203,8 kph (126,6 ? mph).

[Ray Bell]

I meant specifically the F3 races... this was a big circuit also...

[Roger Clark]

John Cooper won the 1952 500cc race at the Grenzlandring at an avarage speed of 102.64mph. his fastest lap was 106.83mph. He used the streamlined car pictured by Ray.

[Ray Bell]

Don't you find that utterly incredible?

Bill Patterson, who ran at Grenzlandring in a Cooper 500, told me it was a huge concrete area that Hitler's army had used as a staging area.

By the way, some of the 1000cc and 1100cc twin-cylinder versions were very quick, if fragile. I think there were some good placings in F2 races against the 2-litre cars of the day, especially on the tighter circuits. One led the Australian Grand Prix at Narrogin for several laps in 1951 before failing.

[Vitesse]

Quick, fragile and dangerous: the great Raymond Sommer lost his life in one at Cadours in 1950.

[Ray Bell]

Too true... and he wasn't the only top line GP driver to die in a car of lesser performance than the ones he normally drove, either. An interesting fact that Barry Lake once brought to light... I think it was Wimille and Clark were the other ones he cited.

[halecmini]

we have got a cooper mk II that will be for sale soom if anyone is intrested, has been restored back to its original state...pm me for info

[dretceterini]

There was a similar class for up to 750cc cars in both France and Italy.

[Mackmot]

I think these cars are lovely http://www.500race.org/

[HiRich]

Mackmot,
Thanks for the namecheck - the site is run by my brother, who runs a Cooper MkVIII-JAP.
For a quick briefing on the 500F3s, the best modern book is Colin Rawlinson's "The 500cc Racing Car" (ISBN 0 7478 0555 5, just £3.50, available from Amazon), and the recent Doug Nye book "Cooper Cars" has a lot of background as well.
My brother is trying to grab as much information about marques and people. There's a big section on the site for this, but if you look closely some of the link go little further than "I once heard about these, but know very little". If you have any relevant information, stories or photo's, he would love to hear from you.

There's a small but enthusiastic band of us still racing (including some of the 'originals' like Geoff Gartside). We variously appear with the Juniors, 750Trophy or on our own. If you see us on the racecard, pop into the paddock for a chat.

Halecmini - We would love to see a MkII out in the field. Drop a line to my brother (Neil Hodges) or PM me, and he can put the word out. He's pushing hard for more support for pre-1950 cars, which struggle against the later models (when Cooper and Kieft dominated).