Toro Rosso Driver Announcement

[wolfhound]

I doubt Toro Rosso will use their 2011 drivers as a 3rd driver I suspect it will be the next driver in the Red Bull line.

[bella]

Originally Posted by barnettracing

I'd love to see a Canadian back in an F1 car (I was a big fan of both Villeneuves) but I don't think Wickens will be their next champion - personally I don't think he'd win unless in the best car/fortunate situation, but that is IMHO.

nope, you're not alone, i agree with that too. wickens is superb when everything's right - barcelona race 1, for example, when he did exactly what he needed to and won by a country mile. equally, that race also showed why jev is absolutely top drawer - even wickens said he wasn't expecting him to fight back through the field so quickly. when vergne gets the mist, he's absolutely unmatched, AND he's clean. the barcelona collision was what happens when you get 2 drivers hellbent on finishing ahead going into a corner together. also one of the stewards decisions of the season i thought - well and truly made up for the common sense clanger that was dropped at monza in giving vergne a penalty that was withdrawn on appeal. wickens deserved the title, don't get me wrong. but vergne did too. that was why it was such a great title battle.

like i say, i am a vergne fangirl and i don't really have any shame in that but that's simply as a result of what i've seen over the past 2 seasons in fr3.5. the guy is pure quality. better than either buemi or alguersuari by a distance.

[Razzzor]

I'm not that suprised about JA and Buemi - the fact that they both struggled and there wasn't a standout favourite between them suggested that neither of them were that great. I know a lot of people put JA in their top 10 this year, but I really didn't see it. How many times was JA the only non-bottom three team to get eliminated in qualifying session one? That's not the sign of a future world champion.

Ricciardo was a good choice to move up, though daring. JEV is a total risk. He's not quite ready to make F1 yet but I hope they give him a good couple of seasons because he's fast. Gave Ricciardo a good run when they teamed up for 6 races in Renault 3.5. JEV could be really really good though. Maybe Ricciardo too.

Wickens still has every chance to get to F1. Just about anyone who finishes top 3 in GP2 will get to F1, and half the WSR champions have too (Alonso, Kubica, Kovi!).

Yeah speaking of Brendon Hartley, him being forgotten by Red Bull has been quite disappointing (being a kiwi). But it's all his own fault. When he was team mates with Alguersuari at British F3 in 2008 he was every bit as fast, and would have won the title with a bit more consistency and luck (6 retirements to JA's 2). The previous year, 2007, he destroyed JA (his team mate) scoring more than double his points and Charles Pic who's now in F1, in Eurocup.

Halfway into the 2009 season, JA gets the call up to Toro Rosso and Hartley gets dropped as Toro Rosso's third driver because he hasn't won a race yet with Renault 3.5. JA hadn't either, though he was quite a bit ahead in points. Who were Hartley's team mates that year? Charles Pic, now in F1, Daniel Ricciardo, now in F1. Come 2010 and who are his team mates? JEV and Ricciardo. Well admittedly JEV replaced him, so they didn't race alongside each other.

Hartley's been really fast at times, but 09/10 can't seem to find that pace as often. He's getting fast again, but with mid-field teams no one really notices. Way to blow your F1 chances.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by gttouring

the curious decision is Algeusuari he was solid, not vettel fast, but solid and showed a good race craft and form- hmmm

"Solid" is great for a mid to upper mid pack team with funding issues. Toro Rosso is a b-team/driver development ladder for Red Bull. Red Bull doesn't need a "solid" guy to pick up one or two points a race, they need a guy that sits on the front row and nails wins and podiums everytime he goes out there. Jamie hasn't shown any real speed in the what, 3-4 years he was there. At some point you do the proverbial sh*t or get off the pot.

I think he'd be a great fit at Williams, or more likely HRT.

[chunterer]

So why are some surprised by this deal? It was strongly rumoured for most of this season and only died in use last couple of months thanks to some crafty spin put out there by Red Bull's PRcorps I think!

The loser in all this is Jaime A. So what if qualy wasn't his strong point, the guy drove his boots off in races and nabbed some find results. Fact is neither driver could regularly get that car up the grid so surely that suggests it was the car of not them?

maybe moving away from Red Bull is a good thing for Jaime now. He should see this as a real opportunity to take all he's learned to date and prove himself in a new team. Suspect he will be in a Caterham or Williams.

However the new STR line up is truly mouth watering. Both drivers should have long term futures but JEV is quite probably a world champion in the making and Dan a race winner at least.

[Trev Campbell]

Do we think whichever of these guys performs best next year will step into Webbers seat on 2013 ????

[bella]

i don't think so - their next possible driver (lewis williamson, now a proper red bull junior) is 2 years away from f1, i reckon. they'll give these two 2 years and then throw one of them out - ricciardo said his red bull contract is for 2 years so i think that lines up. there were photos of vergne signing a red bull contract in brazil too, so he's probably on the same deal.

[Paradise City]

Good. If you've got the luxury of a junior team you might as well chuck them all out if they aren't performing up to scratch, then draft in some young guns and if they they don't cut it with a decent try - kick them out too. I think Vettel's ghost lingers there. He's the STR standard the young guns need to match.

[AussieTimmeh]

While I am excited, I am disappointed at the same time for only one reason: I would like to have seen how either of these new drivers compared to an existing driver.

If they both shoot up towards the front of the midfield, are they both great or did the car improve? Etc...

However, it should be a great battle to watch throughout the year!

[cmk]

I'm torn between being happy for two excellent drivers getting F1 rides in a decent car and seeing at least one driver I still feel has potential shuffled out. Alguersuari didn't blow the doors off anyone in his 2.5 years in the series, but on the other hand grabbing a guy out of the middle of his debut FR3.5 season with only BF3 behind him is definitely not liable to get you poise and maturity. He was always going to need time to learn that be it in F1 or elsewhere. I'm not convinced he's had that chance yet. The dude is still only Vergne's age!

On the other hand, J-EV has bags of potential and Ricciardo is pretty decent too. There is a part of me that is disappointed Rob Wickens is nowhere and J-EV is in an STR, because despite the fair critiques made against the former (lots more big car experience, weaker in all but the best cars), the balance is not as clear-cut to me. Vergne has definitely had the benefit of the best cars in his BF3 and FR3.5 seasons and in his GP3 races too (Carlin, Tech 1), so how do we know how he will fare in a mid-grid car? Not seats for all the talents, alas.

[OZ_HCR32]

I think Alguersuari was destined to fail, much like Vergne will unless he is something very special. Being so young and thrown into the melting pan. Its a test of character, personality, social skills, confidence as much as driving ability.

It took a few years for Alguersuari to come to grips with F1 and i think what people are saying is right ... he was moving in the right direction and maturing as a person and a driver.

Disco Dan? I dont know a lot about but I know more than I do about him than Vergne. He seems his own man and confident in himself. Indeed some comments on Autosport the other day say he seemed to be rather mature in his approach to his role...to the point he may have been shelving his raw pace to get kms and look after the equipment.

I think the years sitting around watching what goes into a race weekend as 3rd driver at RBR the past few years added to last years end of year Rookie testing, STR Friday practice days and his stint at HRT + being slightly older means he has the better chance to step in and succeed (setting aside any talent advantage / disadvantages they may enjoy over one another)

[Razzzor]

Well bottom line is there's a lot of promising drivers on the grid for 2012: JEV, Dan, Di Resta, Perez, Grosjean. Senna could stick around.

Then with all the other waiting in the wings: Bianchi, Wickens, Bottas, maybe Costa and Williamson (and fingers crossed the kiwis Evans and Stanaway), that's a lot of potential for the future.

These are the guys that could be duking it with Vettel and Hamilton for years to come. I don't mention Alonso or Button as they're a decade into their careers - I don't see them lasting that much longer. And Massa/Webber are on their final 2 years with leading teams.

Hell maybe Hulkenberg or Kovalainen could return to the limelight.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by bella

not using capitals allows me to concentrate fully on maintaining the quality of the drivel i insist on spouting at any given opportunity

Top answer

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bella

terribly sorry old boy but i think you're talking out of your trousers there! wickens *barely* took the title this season, and has considerably more big car and circuit racing experience than vergne. it's nowhere near that clear cut.

Originally Posted by Mr V

Bella, where do you get your keyboards? you know, the ones without the shift key, or caps lock, that's puzzled me for years

Mr V, where do I find a keyboard that lets me use ! and * without a shift key?

[jab]

Utterly stupid decision to get rid of Alguersuari, which is summed up by what he said a few weeks ago - that Marko "expected" him to win a race in the Toro Rosso. Either he was setting him up to fail or he's extremely deluded

[Marbot]

Alguersuari "surprised" by decision to drop him from the team.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96747

[OZ_HCR32]

He seems a class act!

The statement that Marko said he factored in their 2012 thinking makes me think RBR will farm him off with a sweetener to Catherham. I hope so. Would love to see him next to Heikki in a team that impresses me with the direction that Tony Fernandes is steering the team.

[Peat]

Very pragmatic young man.

Most chaps his age would be 10 pages into an explitive ridden twitter rant by now.

[rallycrosscraig]

The only interesting thing about this is that people didnt see it coming and it wasnt predicted by the usual sources.

As to what happens in Torro Rosso in the future its just not of any interest, who cares about this team or its drivers?

I'd like to see firming up of the rules as to what credentials a driver must have to get a seat in F1, it would get rid of the rubbish and make the stars have to really earn their seats rather than get parachuted in with a fresh face, a big sponsor and a load of optimism.

They'd have to achieve top 5 championship result in a leading catagory, no other way in ie not just based on race wins, or testing, or money, or anything other than championship results.

To drive in F1 they should have proved themselves in a major series with the lowest eligble series being F3.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Peat

Very pragmatic young man.

Most chaps his age would be 10 pages into an explitive ridden twitter rant by now.

and that's exactly why he'll be fine post-red bull. he's mature enough to understand an rationalise what's going on. though the fact he describes himself as a complete driver at 21 could very well explain why he's been shown the door

i like him too. his old man is also a class act. for him it must be quite a conflict because he's always close to the top drivers in his series (and particularly the red bull guys), yet his own son has given way for their success. under that circumstance, for jaime jnr to come out with a positive attitude is... incredible is the wrong word but it's really superb.

[Born Racer]

[strider]

Originally Posted by bella

and that's exactly why he'll be fine post-red bull. he's mature enough to understand an rationalise what's going on. though the fact he describes himself as a complete driver at 21 could very well explain why he's been shown the door

i like him too. his old man is also a class act. for him it must be quite a conflict because he's always close to the top drivers in his series (and particularly the red bull guys), yet his own son has given way for their success. under that circumstance, for jaime jnr to come out with a positive attitude is... incredible is the wrong word but it's really superb.

I agree with almost all of that. I think he has shown himself to be very mature and will follow his future progress with interest. One thing that seems clear by implication is that Red Bull is not going to pay for him to have a drive at, say, Caterham. He is no longer a Red Bull driver and that's that, although there may be a few residual comforts.

When he says that he is now a complete driver, I don't think he means that he's not going to improve any further, although that seems to be Red Bull's view. As he says, he was thrown into F1 at the deep end, because he had not driven so much as 1km in an F1 car before. Off-hand, I can't think of anyone else who has been placed in that situation, certainly in the modern era. He has improved massively since then and was improving all the way through last season. I hope he goes on to bigger and better things and shows Red Bull to have been wrong.

[chunterer]

It would be pretty damn good if he did 'show em' strider.

It'll be the first time that will have happened in F1 if he does, although it has happened a few times already in the lower formula, with the likes of Wickens and a couple of others IIRC?

[ECW Dan Selby]

Yeh! Power to Jaime

Selby

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by jab

Utterly stupid decision to get rid of Alguersuari, which is summed up by what he said a few weeks ago - that Marko "expected" him to win a race in the Toro Rosso. Either he was setting him up to fail or he's extremely deluded

I think the Doc's old eye injury may have had deeper repercussions than anyone else has previously assumed. If true.