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Old 10 May 2012, 01:40 (Ref:3072014)   #1276
Biggy G
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Parity has always been an issue with the NZV8's, raised as a Holden fan it was so hard to see so many guys switch to Fords in the NZV8's, but it was hard to hold it against them, they just wanted to win. Had a very interesting chat with someone that is far more technically apt than myself last night, and some interesting points were raised with this new fandangled Toyota.

We've heard that a cap on horsepower will be created through a controlled ECU, the engine Toyota are planning to run is a quad can multi valve unit and the internals, through the use of some very exotic materials, are lighter than that of the Ford and Holden. All very well having the same power output but if one gets there an awful lot quicker than the others then where is the parity. Also the Toyota engine has the potential to sit a lot lower in the chassis so therefore the centre of gravity will not be the same as the others.

Also with the Camry being a shorter and narrower car than the Holden and Ford, how do you achieve parity when the front track on the new common chassis will sit outside the Camry wheel arches. Will they have to reduce the width of the front track and therefore lose grip or add a couple of inches to all of the external body panels?

With regards to the aero on the Toyota or any other new comer, are they going to have the same front and rear clip and rear wing as Ford and Holden or are the teams going to spend a pile of coin to develop their own. Then the flow on from that is who does the aero testing needed to achieve aero parity? Or is aero being disregarded in favour of matching what is under the bonnet?

Finally maths was never my strong point (As most i've studied with would certainly atest, haha!) BUT if there is 15 (or even 11) chassis still to be built and it takes 3 weeks to build each chassis, excluding assembly which will take another 6-8 weeks, are we not running out of time for all of these new cars to be built? With only 5 and a bit months to go there will certainly be a few late nights.

I hope Toyota aren't going to get their own way on every little thing too, and the new promotions company doesn't bow to their every wish and demand. With a senior member of Toyota staff now being on the board and Toyota entering NZV8S, would you not be a bit worried if you were lining up with your old-school Holden or Ford donk in the front of the car at Round 1?
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Old 10 May 2012, 01:42 (Ref:3072015)   #1277
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Just read this on TV3.co.nz

While the rival V8 championships continue to battle for supremacy on New Zealand racetracks, Toyota are set to play Switzerland. The famous red and white colours could soon be seen on the grid in both the NZV8’s and the V8 Supertourers.
Richards Team Motorsport has announced plans to enter two V8-engined 2012 Toyota Camry race cars for the coming NZV8 season. While Toyota NZ have confirmed to 3News that the Camry panels will also be available for the V8Supertourers.
The key difference will be under the bonnet, with the NZV8 also running a Toyota Racing Development (TRD) 5-litre V8 built for the US Grand-Am series. Any V8Supertourer Camry would be powered by the 7-Litre LS7 V8 sourced from General Motors. The remainder of the drive-train and chassis of both racers will be common to each class.
While there are sure to be questions over parity between the quad-cam/VVT-i TRD engine and the less state of the art pushrod GM engines, the news of another manufacturer lining up is a major boost for the NZV8’s. It will no doubt provide the same kind of buzz that Nissan’s announcement of its new V8 Supercar team did for that series across the Tasman.
Toyota will be making the Camry panels available to both series via their dealer network.


Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/Toyota-share-...#ixzz1uQX0s5dS
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Old 10 May 2012, 02:33 (Ref:3072020)   #1278
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Parity is over rated
this is a good race from last summer.

Green Corolla vs Yellow Nissan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibPls...5&feature=plcp

Last edited by DRIFDY; 10 May 2012 at 02:45.
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Old 10 May 2012, 05:19 (Ref:3072036)   #1279
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Just read this on TV3.co.nz

While the rival V8 championships continue to battle for supremacy on New Zealand racetracks, Toyota are set to play Switzerland. The famous red and white colours could soon be seen on the grid in both the NZV8’s and the V8 Supertourers.
Richards Team Motorsport has announced plans to enter two V8-engined 2012 Toyota Camry race cars for the coming NZV8 season. While Toyota NZ have confirmed to 3News that the Camry panels will also be available for the V8Supertourers.
The key difference will be under the bonnet, with the NZV8 also running a Toyota Racing Development (TRD) 5-litre V8 built for the US Grand-Am series. Any V8Supertourer Camry would be powered by the 7-Litre LS7 V8 sourced from General Motors. The remainder of the drive-train and chassis of both racers will be common to each class.
While there are sure to be questions over parity between the quad-cam/VVT-i TRD engine and the less state of the art pushrod GM engines, the news of another manufacturer lining up is a major boost for the NZV8’s. It will no doubt provide the same kind of buzz that Nissan’s announcement of its new V8 Supercar team did for that series across the Tasman.
Toyota will be making the Camry panels available to both series via their dealer network.


Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/Toyota-share-...#ixzz1uQX0s5dS


i thought the other side were meant be showing the dinosaurs class the way.. not copy it
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Old 10 May 2012, 07:49 (Ref:3072070)   #1280
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i thought the other side were meant be showing the dinosaurs class the way.. not copy it
Promax, the report was from TV3.
Maybe Shaun Summerfeild got a weeny bit excited when he heard about Toyota, but couldn't believe that NZv8s were getting new body/engine packages available to them, so figured NZst were getting them as well ??
he does tend to get a wee bit flustered and overly excited about our new Winter series.

speaking of winter series, was the NZST class created to drag people away from Rallying (another MSNZ class), and a sport most the key players are to scared to run in !!!!
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Old 10 May 2012, 08:03 (Ref:3072079)   #1281
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Promax, the report was from TV3.
Maybe Shaun Summerfeild got a weeny bit excited when he heard about Toyota, but couldn't believe that NZv8s were getting new body/engine packages available to them, so figured NZst were getting them as well ??
he does tend to get a wee bit flustered and overly excited about our new Winter series.

speaking of winter series, was the NZST class created to drag people away from Rallying (another MSNZ class), and a sport most the key players are to scared to run in !!!!
:cool :
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Old 10 May 2012, 09:27 (Ref:3072111)   #1282
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Clarification

Hi Guys,

That story was based on the press release sent from Mark Baker and information from Toyota NZ.

There was no comment from V8ST.

The article merely pointed out that Toyota are taking a neutral approach; fairly commendable considering the current environment.

I hope that clarifies things.

Shaun.

Last edited by MagnetON; 10 May 2012 at 10:46. Reason: Request of OP
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Old 10 May 2012, 10:30 (Ref:3072142)   #1283
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....V8SuperTourers are available to any manufacturer as well... sometimes you guys appear to clutch at straws..
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Old 10 May 2012, 10:31 (Ref:3072143)   #1284
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From all accounts both Ford and Holden have gone nuts over letting Toyota enter their quad cam, 32 valve engine with VVT-i.

Makes sence as it will be very hard for any Ford or Holden team to get close to a Toyota powered car.

No matter what happens parity cannot be matched. Even if you cap the HP at 500 bhp the Toyota will always get their quicker (and a considerable amount quicker) then the Ford and Holden.
I thought the proposed Ford engine was a Coyote 5 litre quad cam engine with variable cam timing and the Holden engine a 6.2 litre pushrod?
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Old 10 May 2012, 10:46 (Ref:3072157)   #1285
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speaking of winter series, was the NZST class created to drag people away from Rallying (another MSNZ class), and a sport most the key players are to scared to run in !!!!
not going to happen
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Old 10 May 2012, 19:57 (Ref:3072397)   #1286
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Promax, the report was from TV3.
Maybe Shaun Summerfeild got a weeny bit excited when he heard about Toyota, but couldn't believe that NZv8s were getting new body/engine packages available to them, so figured NZst were getting them as well ??
he does tend to get a wee bit flustered and overly excited about our new Winter series.
Anyone that thinks Toyota entering NZV8's is a surprise is bloody naive, for years we have seen Falcons and Holdens plastered with Toyota dealership signage, none of those teams switched to Supertourers, so why would they want to go through the expense of bringing them in without serious support?

Guys like Richards and McKenzie obviously want the panels in NZV8's, but what Toyota are saying is that they will make the them available to whoever wants them, it's just that no one in ST's wants them/ spend the money that is required to achieve aero parity (still no answer on how this is happening in NZV8's), no big deal
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Old 10 May 2012, 20:05 (Ref:3072401)   #1287
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One thing with the Ford engine it mentions on their web site it runs on 89 - 91 octane fuel. Does anybody know what will happen when they put 98 fuel through it.

Ford also has a 5 ltr quad cam 32 valve engines with internals designed for the emission rules that govern the state of California. A mass produced engine at best.

Holden are going to a 6.2 ltr push rod engine.

Sorry but were we not trying to get closer parity with our new cars. What on earth is going to happen if Audi or Merc join the series?

Don’t know about the rest of you but if the Toyota is as good as it is made out be then we will see a mass exodus of teams joining Toyota? Can anybody remember what happened last time Toyota entered touring cars in NZ. Cost everybody a lot of money and they pushed the technical regulations to the max. Don’t see this foray being any different.

If we complain now of parity between Ford and Holden then we have seen nothing yet.
Shame really as the press may pick up on this and have a field day.

Like they say, any press is good press but given we are in a “roll your sleeve up and have a good scrap” with the other crowd I cannot help but feel their very simply philosophy of a one make engine may (and I have my fingers crossed saying this) just make sense.
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Old 10 May 2012, 20:43 (Ref:3072409)   #1288
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One thing with the Ford engine it mentions on their web site it runs on 89 - 91 octane fuel. Does anybody know what will happen when they put 98 fuel through it.Ford also has a 5 ltr quad cam 32 valve engines with internals designed for the emission rules that govern the state of California. A mass produced engine at best.
Holden are going to a 6.2 ltr push rod engine.Sorry but were we not trying to get closer parity with our new cars. What on earth is going to happen if Audi or Merc join the series? Don’t know about the rest of you but if the Toyota is as good as it is made out be then we will see a mass exodus of teams joining Toyota? Can anybody remember what happened last time Toyota entered touring cars in NZ. Cost everybody a lot of money and they pushed the technical regulations to the max. Don’t see this foray being any different.

If we complain now of parity between Ford and Holden then we have seen nothing yet.
Shame really as the press may pick up on this and have a field day. Like they say, any press is good press but given we are in a “roll your sleeve up and have a good scrap” with the other crowd I cannot help but feel their very simply philosophy of a one make engine may (and I have my fingers crossed saying this) just make sense.
AFAIK, octane ratings are calculated differently in the USA than down under. But don't quote me on it.

Political correctness and conformity is starting to overtake the world and it's spread itself into motor racing. Competition is now bad because we might hurt someones feelings or offend. And as a result motor racing worldwide in some spots is getting stale and boring by forcing everyone to use the same exact thing.

And to me that just goes against what motor racing was always about and what it should be about. Motor racing is about competition and winning. And if you are not winning, finding solutions to win.

People rant about the costs for such competition in cars and parts, but the reality is everywhere in the world where one make and control parts have been used, costs have gone through the roof, because you end up having to purchase one part from one supplier at a huge mark up, rather than buying from a competitor(competition in prices keeps costs lower) or engineering your own solution.
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Old 10 May 2012, 21:07 (Ref:3072418)   #1289
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AFAIK, octane ratings are calculated differently in the USA than down under. But don't quote me on it.

Political correctness and conformity is starting to overtake the world and it's spread itself into motor racing. Competition is now bad because we might hurt someones feelings or offend. And as a result motor racing worldwide in some spots is getting stale and boring by forcing everyone to use the same exact thing.

And to me that just goes against what motor racing was always about and what it should be about. Motor racing is about competition and winning. And if you are not winning, finding solutions to win.

People rant about the costs for such competition in cars and parts, but the reality is everywhere in the world where one make and control parts have been used, costs have gone through the roof, because you end up having to purchase one part from one supplier at a huge mark up, rather than buying from a competitor(competition in prices keeps costs lower) or engineering your own solution.
One of your better posts Mountainstar, I think that you are hitting a few nails on the head here.
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Old 10 May 2012, 23:14 (Ref:3072465)   #1290
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Promax, the report was from TV3.
Maybe Shaun Summerfeild got a weeny bit excited when he heard about Toyota, but couldn't believe that NZv8s were getting new body/engine packages available to them, so figured NZst were getting them as well ??
he does tend to get a wee bit flustered and overly excited about our new Winter series.
Jeez thats a bit OTT dont you think smokin' joe. The article was based on Toyota NZ approaching TV3 with this story, and not the author of the article 'assuming' that because the NZV8s were getting the panels then so must the ST class. In fact the ST class have talked about its ability to cater for other manufacturers from day 1.

Cast your mind back to Promax's First post on the V8 SuperTourers Thread, dated 19th February 2011...

The monocoque chassis, like the Australian V8 Supercar 'car of the future' or COFT project, is built to not only accommodate both the current VE Commodore and FG Falcon bodies, but any other similar sized four-dour production vehicle such a Toyota Camry, BMW 5 series, etc. Interested vehicle manufacturers of four-door saloon cars of a similar size to the Holden VE and Ford FG models can apply for homologation to race in the V8SuperTourier series.

So its always been on the cards. However the way in which the series has evolved with a common aero package for all makes and models is sensible and means that parity can be achieved in a cost effective manner.

Unless the NZV8 COTF can adopt such a strategy then there will surely be a **** fight when it comes to deciding what type of aero package the Camry will need, ie. will it run the centrally mounted rear spoiler or the edge mounted spoiler, or will it have to develop a whole new one. What would be the cost of developing a fair aero package for the new car? And do we have the facilities in NZ (remember this is a kiwi car) to develop such aero packages? Just a thought anyway
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Old 11 May 2012, 00:40 (Ref:3072488)   #1291
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And do we have the facilities in NZ (remember this is a kiwi car) to develop such aero packages? Just a thought anyway
CFD and half model testing is possible. I don't believe we have a wind tunnel capable of getting good results on a full size car.
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Old 11 May 2012, 01:59 (Ref:3072497)   #1292
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I'd heard a rumor that there was a fairly decent whack of cash (beyond buying and fitting the parts) required to bring a new manufacturer into V8ST?

Interesting that the TV3 article suggest Toyota are playing Switzerland... Isn;t there a significant amount of "Toyota" money going into one series and simply the offer of parts if you want to buy them to the other at this point of time?

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Also with the Camry being a shorter and narrower car than the Holden and Ford, how do you achieve parity when the front track on the new common chassis will sit outside the Camry wheel arches. Will they have to reduce the width of the front track and therefore lose grip or add a couple of inches to all of the external body panels?
Wouldn't you just modify the body panels in a similar sort of way to the way V8SC and V8ST make the Falcon and Commodore fit around their chassis?
You do make some other interesting points though re: engine and aero parity...
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Old 11 May 2012, 07:32 (Ref:3072553)   #1293
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My recollection is that the first one to put up the funds to develop the panels etc required to bring a new model into ST has to then hand the rights to what they have developed to ST for additional competitors.
I am sure someone can clear that up.
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Old 11 May 2012, 07:58 (Ref:3072561)   #1294
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My recollection is that the first one to put up the funds to develop the panels etc required to bring a new model into ST has to then hand the rights to what they have developed to ST for additional competitors.
I am sure someone can clear that up.
Yeah something like that, along with pay a fee to V8ST to homologate them to the series, and hand them the rights to the panels so V8ST can make all the money from them and they will have to be bought through them.
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Old 13 May 2012, 10:38 (Ref:3073559)   #1295
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Didn't Mr Petch come onto the V8ST thread and clear this untruth up previously?
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Old 13 May 2012, 20:59 (Ref:3074005)   #1296
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Sorry but were we not trying to get closer parity with our new cars. What on earth is going to happen if Audi or Merc join the series?
cars will have to completed first... then run in anger.. to see if there will be an issue.. as far as parity is concerned. maybe a similar concept like the WTCC uses will be introduced.. and weight will be add to certain makes if they are that much faster than the rest of the pack.

who knows
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Old 13 May 2012, 21:47 (Ref:3074033)   #1297
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Thanks Promax.

So it may be going back to the old days of weight boxes in the car. Works very well in 2.0L WTCC cars because of the engine size vs HP/Torque. Will have very little effect on the NZV8s.

The weight boxes worked ok when we use to run them but the brakes, tires, suspension, gear boxes were all stressed back then. Given this new package it will have to be a lot of weight to have any effect.

If the cars need to be completed and run (which I assume all will be run to assure absolute parity) then how many cars will be completely finished in time.

Unfortunately Promax, as we both know by the time the first round is here it is too late to do any changes to equalise any parity issues. The governing bodies will do what they always do and say changes cannot be made during the season.

Go back to what I have said before, shame for the likes of Nick Ross, Simon Richards, Dwayne Carter etc etc as these guys will invest a lot of money to go racing without an even playing field.

By a matter of interest how much consultation did the franchisee owners have on the engine that Toyota has been permitted to run?
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Old 14 May 2012, 00:39 (Ref:3074088)   #1298
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Motorsport: Toyota's green light

"The engine Toyota NZ has sourced is a little beauty and we're very, very happy with that. We should be able to wheel the car out around the end of October and have it running."
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Old 14 May 2012, 00:51 (Ref:3074089)   #1299
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the Tulloch VE is meant to be shipped to their workshop some time this week to be completed. you'd think there would be a push to get a Coyote powered FG and a completed Toyota to compare the 3.
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Old 14 May 2012, 03:14 (Ref:3074109)   #1300
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yes you would promax, so i agree with you there. For this to even get close to getting off the ground all 3 cars need to be ready for testing and parity assessment about 4 months ago.

Otherwise it will be the Toyota camp (you'll be happy with that eh promax ) running away with victory every time and making the rest of the field look silly. And when that happens there will be unhappy campers up and down pitlane (albeit a very short pitlane).

Roll on November.....
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