buying a single seater?

[gadgit]

I think I have the bug for a single seater race car for track days. I have considered this option due to the fact that I do not have a race licence and would need to gain some knowledge for a year or so before moving in any direction. Having looked through fast car and road race, there is a formula renault on there for £3850 with a trailer which would appear to me as a novice to be a bargain, as a new Go Kart(125) is £3000. My problem is I have no idea of costs just to keep one of these things running. I am experienced machanic and have just rebulit a TVR S2 and am happy to tackle jobs as they come along.
I am in my late forties and have no illusions as to my ability and just want to be able to be involved and keep the thing in my garage. I really feel it would be a privilege to own one and look after it. Please don't take the micky, is ther anyone out there that does this sort of thing that can advise me on what I could do to get started, and the costs involved for a first year of track day running, with care!

I've read with interest that F/Ford 1600 is on the wain, and feel that formula renualt is a proper looking race car ( attempting not to be rude to FF) and attended the last FR meeting at brands hatch.

I would appreciate any advice from all, and some ideas that would help me along the way.

with thanks to all.

gadgit.

[JR Ewing]

Hmmm, assuming this is an old, old FR1700, as racing cars they are a bit of a nightmare but they should be quite cheap to run as they are effectively FF1600 chassis with wings and road based engines/gearboxes.

Change the oil regularly, check all nuts/bolts everytime you go out and, if you don't bend it, it should cost bagger all to run. They have little s/h value - so buy cheap, sell cheap. For trackdays a good car, for any racing: hopeless engine/box (especially the awful sloppy gearbox)

[gadgit]

Thanks for the reply JR, you have given me encouragement, which is what I wanted at this stage. I note that you have Veteran against your name and wondered what this would mean?

Is there a site where I can get information on the cars components and costs, for say the engine parts, suspension, ect.
Again, thanks for the reply, I half expected a pasting for even suggesting that I went ahead with this venture. would it be an advantage to get a race licence before starting out and if so which one and why?

With thanks for a reply,

Gadgit.

[gadgit]

Car for sale at the moment is a RF 94 swift.

[JR Ewing]

A Swift 94 FR??

For spares prices try Ken Thorogood at URS on 01953 789223 (Norfolk).

If you want to do trackdays why need a licence.

If you wnated to progress to race, I would recommend an FF1600 over a FR1700 any day - better driving car.

Novices love wings as they look good. In reality they will confuse you, block you view and cost loads if you bend them.

A 94 swift complete with engine/spares is three grand value absolute tops. Nobody wants them. They have no racing use in reality.

Even a Swift 2 litre 1995/6 car is only worth about 4,500...

[gadgit]

Thanks JR, I'll no doubt be back to pick your brains at a later date.
gadgit.

[Bob Pearson]

The problem with 1700,s is tyres, Michelin no longer do them, I believe there is a Yoko that fits, but I don't know details. The Swift JR refers to is actually a 95, there wasn't a 96 Swift and only about 1 97 and that was a 95 chassis with different bodywork. Actually they are a much maligned car ( often unfairly)which if you could find one would give you much more pleasure than the 1700 and parts would be easier as they are still eligable for a current formula.
JR is right, the 1700 was never a nice car, but if it is cheap and for a trackday it will still be fun.

[Morcilman]

I would go for a FF 1800, they are cheap, modern and you will learn a lot, plus you can buy anything for those and get all the info that you can imagine.

[Bob Pearson]

When I first brought a single seater many years ago I had the belief that it had to have slicks and wings to "look right". The sense in that is debateable but never the less those thoughts are still in many purchasers minds and I suspect in gadgits too.
Ten single seaters later I still think they need slicks and wings, but I know that isn't the view of everyone.

[GM Man]

you should all exchange phonenumbers, that is my best advice!
For someone who starts out I too would recommend a FF 1600, there are loads out there and parts too.

[Ste]

While on the subject I'd like to join in too.

How much would it roughly cost to buy a mid 90's FF? How much mechanical knowledge would I need to keep it running? Are parts ridiculously expensive? and how much does it roughly cost to take it to a track day or amateur race, and how long would i get to play with it on the track?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Steven

[Jensen]

Originally posted by Ste
While on the subject I'd like to join in too.

How much would it roughly cost to buy a mid 90's FF? How much mechanical knowledge would I need to keep it running? Are parts ridiculously expensive? and how much does it roughly cost to take it to a track day or amateur race, and how long would i get to play with it on the track?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Steven

Somewhere around £3000 - £4000 should get a fairly good 90's FF1600, good places to look are Autosport, and on the web, www.monoposto@freeserve.co.uk is a good one to try. when you get the car contact the manufacturer and get a base set-up from them, then pay someone to set it up for you, from there you have a good starting point to learn from on subjects such as Camber / Castor / Tracking / Ride height / Bump / Rake angle / Droop etc.etc.etc All things which are very important to making your machine go well. Advice would be to log all the settings from your set up guy when he is finished and then during outings make small adjustments and see how it feels, it really is the only way to learn as a owner / mechanic / driver. My first was a Van Diemen RF 85, she was fun but very difficult to work on the set up but it was my first car and along with videos, books and some friends in the trade tought me a lot of how the above is set and how it effects the car. ~A good championship to enter to race it is the Mono racing club ( see above web site address ), they also have a race at SPA !!!!
Parts can be purchased through a few outlets and second hand parts are always flying aound the forums, new can be a little expensive but relative, and average race entry would be around £150 which would give you a 20mins qual and a 15 lap race, test days are usually around £200 average.
Good luck.

[jonathanc]

In answer to the original posting, its worth noting that hardly any of the track day companies (except Bookatrack) allow open wheeled cars to take part. They claim its too dangerous to run open wheeled cars such as SS out with saloons and the rest...... bah humbug is all I can say.

Anyway, my vote is with Jedi cars especially if you do not have much mechanical experience as they are very easy to work on (if you have the time). Parts are cheap and easily available unlike some other cars on the market these days.

Whatever you buy.... have fun

[Ste]

thanks Jenson. I'll look into it.

[gadgit]

Its time perhaps to move this on to the next level, as I keep looking at F3 cars as well. can you put my mind at rest concerning the running costs of these beasts. My mate who runs a Go Kart says running a F3 would be totaly out of the question due to the cost of the parts, is this true? I know they are more to buy 7-10K but would the extra cost be worth it just to run one for a year, or am I mad even to think about it. (what a year that would be)

gadgit.

[El_Gibleto]

have a look at www.classicf3.co.uk they have a cars for sale section and contact details for the people who can give you information about the cars, which can be very cheap to run.

[JR Ewing]

Ho ho ho - lol - people have funny ideas. If you can get a rated 90s FF1600 for under four grand it has no wheels, engine or bodywork!

cheapest RF90 would be five grand and expect to spend another two prepping it.

An 80s car would be cheaper but only buy an Rf86, RF88 or RF89. 83 was a joke, 84 a git to set up, 85 all had flexing chassis and most have extras welded into the spaceframe, 87 was too long.

Monoposto 1600 is rubbish as they all cheat ridiculously with trick cams - listen to them on the overun. This new BARC series is much better value or one of the BRSCC regional series treats you much better.

F3 - I ran in ARP a few years ago and blew my Spiess VW up. New cost: eighteen (18) grand. moral of story: forget it!

[bradenc]

You might not like the look of it, but cast your eye over some Formula Vee cars, I believe they are aboout as low cost as single seaters get. The car that won the championship in 2002 is advertised for £5,750 but cars can be had for less than £3000 that are adequate.

www.750mc.co.uk

[JR Ewing]

very tru

[gadgit]

Thanks for the info all of you! I think I'll follow JRs info and perhaps go for a FR at a reasonable price and see how I get on. I've just got to finish the TVR s2 (spray job) and then flog it.

gadgit.

[racingdick]

you could try contacting a few racing schools to see if they have any old cars. May not be in the best condition but should be mechanicaly sound.

[Lola]

Mono cheating????????
the 1600 class allow the MONO cam.
I run an F3 in mono at a reasonable cost. Just took out the very expensive F3 Brabham engine and dropped in a road going VW gti unit. Standard parts, pump fuel etc and produce more bhp than an 8v ARP f3 engine!!!!!

[howard]

Gadgit,

I bought a VD00 FF Zetec and put 2 litre power in the back. The car is very lively and great fun to drive, and in the right hands very quick. I mainly bought the car to use for track-day fun, at 1/2 the price of a quick Caterfield and 1/3 that of a Radical. Spares are easily to get from VDiemen and some cheaper aftermarket parts are available. The engine is easy to look after, not too stressed, just change the oil every 180 miles, used tyres can be had from the FF pro-teams for £60 a set, brake pads are £180 for the whole car etc. It is very economical to run (if you don't hit anything and if you do it's easy to repair.)

Have a look at www.circuitdriver.com under Road Test 'Single Minded' feature.

I run the car at all non-Octagon track track-days, plus all the European circuits Spa, Dijon, Magny Cours www.bookatrack.com. And can run at test day, plus a few club level races. The only thing I would change is the engine (back to a FF1800 Zetec) to keep the car legal for a wider number of races.

IMHO - Don't go for a pre-99 FF zetec, the design significantly improved in 99. And don't go for wings as a first car, you'll just knock them off and constantly adjust them. Avoid anything with more then 100bhp / litre these engines need rebuilds every 600 miles. Avoid cardon-fiber tubs.

[the18racer]

My vote is with Jedi- I had two 500s in the early 90s and there were huge fun and are even more user friendly these days with 4-stroke engines.