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Old 18 Sep 2017, 09:58 (Ref:3768215)   #576
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knighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridknighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Has anyone ruled out a decent IRL driver coming over to F1......I rather always liked the look of Simon Pagenaud.......Am Sure Williams must be looking, as its slim pickings for them at the moment
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Old 18 Sep 2017, 10:44 (Ref:3768224)   #577
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Has anyone ruled out a decent IRL driver coming over to F1......
A "decent" IRL driver is only a "half decent" F1 driver though! No point really.


Latest gossip is that Rosberg has offered himself to Williams to be the PR/poster boy for Martini. Not a bad thing for Martini to have a former WDC as their poster boy I would think.
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Old 18 Sep 2017, 10:46 (Ref:3768226)   #578
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Ericsson at Williams??

Sorry, not going to happen.
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Old 18 Sep 2017, 10:46 (Ref:3768227)   #579
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Has anyone ruled out a decent IRL driver coming over to F1......I rather always liked the look of Simon Pagenaud.......Am Sure Williams must be looking, as its slim pickings for them at the moment
Pagenaud?

It seems unlikely to me. That would mean giving up a seat in the best car and best team to join a midfield team.

Unless his dream is to "drive in F1 whatever the circumstances" I cannot see him give up what he has now.

Some drivers choose a different career path when F1 doesn't materialize (Indycar, GT, Le Mans, DTM) and once they find out they can live their dream, earn good money and be successful I'm not sure they want to give that up "just to be in F1".
(If Ferrari, Red Bull or Mercedes called, that might be something else - but for a midfield team... ?)
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Old 18 Sep 2017, 10:47 (Ref:3768228)   #580
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A "decent" IRL driver is only a "half decent" F1 driver! No point really.


Latest gossip is that Rosberg has offered himself to Williams to be the PR/poster boy for Martini. Not a bad thing for Martini to have a former WDC as their poster boy I would think.
Interesting news. Is this also tied in with (his manager) Nico getting Robert Kubica a drive with the team too?
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Old 18 Sep 2017, 13:22 (Ref:3768270)   #581
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A "decent" IRL driver is only a "half decent" F1 driver though! No point really.


Latest gossip is that Rosberg has offered himself to Williams to be the PR/poster boy for Martini. Not a bad thing for Martini to have a former WDC as their poster boy I would think.
Please show you are more than just a hack.

F1 drivers moving to Indycar have not been all that impressive of late. Lest we forget, Sato and Chilton were F1 drivers for a while and have been solidly midfield in Indycar, with plenty of Indycar drivers showing themselves better than either of them. Even a washed up Kanaan in the same team beats the "F1 talent" of Chilton. Esteban Gutierrez wasn't too impressive yet, in Indycar, either. Alexander Rossi is showing talent, but F1 prefers the "talents" of Ericsson, Palmer, Kyviat, Massa and Stroll instead....

The top Indycar drivers would make for some interesting drivers in F1. Dismissing them like you do is foolish.
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Old 18 Sep 2017, 13:40 (Ref:3768277)   #582
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Please show you are more than just a hack.

F1 drivers moving to Indycar have not been all that impressive of late. Lest we forget, Sato and Chilton were F1 drivers for a while and have been solidly midfield in Indycar, with plenty of Indycar drivers showing themselves better than either of them. Even a washed up Kanaan in the same team beats the "F1 talent" of Chilton. Esteban Gutierrez wasn't too impressive yet, in Indycar, either. Alexander Rossi is showing talent, but F1 prefers the "talents" of Ericsson, Palmer, Kyviat, Massa and Stroll instead....

The top Indycar drivers would make for some interesting drivers in F1. Dismissing them like you do is foolish.
Sorry, I don't want to fuel the fire here and admit that I know little about vthe US racing scene. What I do know is that Sato & Chiltern were hardly front runners (in fact the opposite) in F1 yet apparently ar now mid-field runners. So, using the same reasoning, a midfield runner coming into F1 would therefore be expected to be running near the back surely?
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Old 18 Sep 2017, 13:45 (Ref:3768279)   #583
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Sorry, I don't want to fuel the fire here and admit that I know little about vthe US racing scene. What I do know is that Sato & Chiltern were hardly front runners (in fact the opposite) in F1 yet apparently ar now mid-field runners. So, using the same reasoning, a midfield runner coming into F1 would therefore be expected to be running near the back surely?
The way I see it, they were in the worst cars in f1 and finished there. They're in fairly equal cars in IndyCar and are bottom half. They were in the "pinnacle of motorsport" yet aren't even in the top half of talent in IndyCar. Obviously, there are some in f1 because of money, but that proves my point. On talent alone, there are numerous IndyCar drivers that would be competitive in f1.
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Old 18 Sep 2017, 14:51 (Ref:3768295)   #584
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We have a difficult time just trying to rank the capabilities of the current F1 drivers (how to judge skill when dealing with differences in the hardware from team to team) let alone trying to determine the equivalency equation between F1 and Indycar drivers.

Interesting to discuss, but frankly hard for anyone to make sweeping statements one way or another. The larger problem is the small sample sizes (intra F1, F1 to Indycar and Indycar to F1)... especially in the current era in both series.

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Old 18 Sep 2017, 15:00 (Ref:3768296)   #585
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We have a difficult time just trying to rank the capabilities of the current F1 drivers (how to judge skill when dealing with differences in the hardware from team to team) let alone trying to determine the equivalency equation between F1 and Indycar drivers.

Interesting to discuss, but frankly hard for anyone to make sweeping statements one way or another. The larger problem is the small sample sizes (intra F1, F1 to Indycar and Indycar to F1)... especially in the current era in both series.

Richard
A top talent will always be a top talent whatever they run in.

The only things that stop a top talent from showing it are a/ equipment and b/ injury.
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Old 18 Sep 2017, 15:54 (Ref:3768317)   #586
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A top talent will always be a top talent whatever they run in.

The only things that stop a top talent from showing it are a/ equipment and b/ injury.
true Chunts, but the equipment thing is one of the reasons why it's impossible to compare accurately...
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Old 18 Sep 2017, 15:59 (Ref:3768321)   #587
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So Nico is following in his father's footsteps in becoming a driver manager. Now that is something to keep an eye on
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Old 18 Sep 2017, 16:02 (Ref:3768323)   #588
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A top talent will always be a top talent whatever they run in.

The only things that stop a top talent from showing it are a/ equipment and b/ injury.
c/ lack of cash
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Old 18 Sep 2017, 16:11 (Ref:3768327)   #589
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A top talent will always be a top talent whatever they run in.

The only things that stop a top talent from showing it are a/ equipment and b/ injury.
I'm not so sure. Sometimes drivers just don't gel. I can't help but think of Sébastien Bourdais. Mighty in the States, pretty handy in a prototype, but just couldn't make it work in F1.
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Old 18 Sep 2017, 16:26 (Ref:3768334)   #590
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There are probably other factors at play too. Some drivers don't seem to 'fit' with the way they have to adapt themselves to the car, the way it has to be setup, ...
See: Zanardi @Williams

And sometimes drivers that are not impressive at all in a particular category excel in another one.
See: Laurens Vanthoor: he was nowhere in European F3 (while driving for a strong team) but is pretty good in an Audi R8 (and a Porsche 911)
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Old 18 Sep 2017, 17:55 (Ref:3768344)   #591
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Smart move from Kubica. Nico could be very good for Martini and is of course well known to Williams.
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Old 18 Sep 2017, 18:21 (Ref:3768351)   #592
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A top talent will always be a top talent whatever they run in.

The only things that stop a top talent from showing it are a/ equipment and b/ injury.
Imagine fish in two ponds. The ponds could be identical, but they are not. They are similar, but also have differences. Some fish may naturally do better in one pond vs. the other. Some might do fine in either. Some not well in both! But being the standout fish in one pond doesn't mean you will be the standout fish in the other pond. Especially if they only way we currently rank fish is its individual standing within it's home pond.

However... You may still find a fish or two that does exceptionally well in both ponds (aka "top talent")! Other fish might perform exceptionally well in one or the other, but not both. Regardless, until you have switched a large number of fish around, all that does is a comment on individual fish. And then if you swap out enough fish, you can start to make broad and general statements about fish from one pond or another, but you still can't absolutely predict one fishes performance in another pond (even if you have strong suspicions) until you switch them and give them a try.

My point is that I agree with your statement, but only until someone has proven themselves in the two series (or multiple series) can the label of "top talent" be given (using what I suspect is your definition). You can't just pick someone who excels in series A and "know" they will excel in series B.

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Old 18 Sep 2017, 21:08 (Ref:3768416)   #593
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AoB Special Stage should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAoB Special Stage should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
this is why I don't bother with F1 so much anymore, but it is hilarious:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...action=history

I just couldn't help myself.
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Old 19 Sep 2017, 06:55 (Ref:3768502)   #594
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c/ lack of cash
😉
Sometimes also linked to equipment...
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Old 19 Sep 2017, 06:57 (Ref:3768503)   #595
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I'm not so sure. Sometimes drivers just don't gel. I can't help but think of Sébastien Bourdais. Mighty in the States, pretty handy in a prototype, but just couldn't make it work in F1.
No the results weren't there in the end and he maybe lost heart in year 2 but there was speed and some terrible reliability too!
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Old 19 Sep 2017, 08:09 (Ref:3768516)   #596
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Ocon signs with Force Racing for 2018.

Perez vs Ocon continues for one more year!!
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Old 19 Sep 2017, 13:10 (Ref:3768555)   #597
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No the results weren't there in the end and he maybe lost heart in year 2 but there was speed and some terrible reliability too!
I have to agree with you there, in his first season every time it was going well for him, something went wrong. And the second season he did look a bit demoralised. I guess it wasn't helped by the supposed lack of support from the team
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Old 19 Sep 2017, 14:48 (Ref:3768570)   #598
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Ocon signs with Force Racing for 2018.

Perez vs Ocon continues for one more year!!
Well that team is doing their best to keep thing interesting in 2018! And I agree regarding this...

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Old 19 Sep 2017, 19:55 (Ref:3768635)   #599
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knighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridknighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Just thinking out loud......i wonder if wiliams could tempt mark webber back into the seat

Failing that i wonder if brendan hartley is worth a shout, he was previously a redbull junior driver, but i think was dropped? But hasnt he being doing development for merc f1?......he can certainly pedal an LMP1 and is now considering IRL for 2018
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Old 19 Sep 2017, 20:07 (Ref:3768636)   #600
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Kubica would bring massive media interest to Williams for 2018, and it is what they need. With Rosberg around too, it would be page 1 news in F1.
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