QMN driving standards

[grichie87]

Just a chat about driving standards, every race I have had damage discuss.....

[Mike Harte]

Two threads in Historics' that discuss this topic:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141784

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141273

The second one takes a few posts before it warms up.

[Al Weyman]

This is becoming epidemic of late and not just in the above mentioned series so maybe unfair to single that out and watching ITV4 yesterday I can see why. When CTCRC were at Croft earlier this year many and I mean many of our guys were penalised for going off track limits, that display I saw yesterday in Ginettas and BTCC was a joke, they were so far off track they were taking out the bollards, many cars in both disiplines had lost front headlamps and had nearside damage and yet no penalties that I saw. A high profile example(s) penalty in front of the TV cameras should have been handed out, it could have been next race ban, docked 10 places in next race, time penalties in the actual race anything just make sure the message gets through to impressionable people watching who now think this is the norm. I came into this game as fed up with the damage I used to get on my car when doing short circuit racing. Its up to the MSA to get a grip on this now before guys say enough is enough and start pulling out.

[historic racer]

Thought edit from on high said we were not allowed to discuss QMN ( formally DMN ) ????????

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by historic racer

Thought edit from on high said we were not allowed to discuss QMN ( formally DMN ) ????????

That was rescinded when Quaife took over sponsorship but same rules apply, if it gets out of hand then It'll be closed again and slappings handed out.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by grichie87

Just a chat about driving standards, every race I have had damage discuss.....

What do you keep hitting?

[SidewaysFeltham]

Well, just a few thoughts from and old 'un.......

Amateur motor racing was at times fast and furious, but always non-contact: that was the core ethos of the sport.

From time to time I have watched, in the past saloon cars in the 80s and 90s on TV and was horrified and turned off by the dreadful driving and winner-takes-all death destruction derbies ensuing.

This wasn't circuit racing: it was hopped up short circuit shale stock car racing: (not stock cars as in the US NASCAR series).

Perhaps it started to go wrong when circuits fell into money investor's hands and promoted stock cars, bangers and even forsooth, truck racing on the hallowed reslo of Brands Hatch et al?

As non-motor trade sponsors moved in, then eventually major automotive manufacturers realised televised saloons etc were an excellent platform from which to advertise their product.

Drivers didn't care: neither did team managers. Total the car? So what, the sponsor would always fork out for another.

Sadly, this ethos has spread like a virus and blokes with more than a few quid can hoover up the odd classic race car and try and exorcise their inner angst by making like Schumacher. (Whom it must be noted enjoys the rep of wrecking saloons, both rally and circuit race cars: as did Mansell).

A dear old friend of mine from motor sport days, the late Colin Robert (AKA Bobbie) Cooper took up competitive target target pistol shooting in later life. Despite the handicap of poor eyesight, he became British Open Pistols Champion (Antique Weapons) at Bisley twice. he was also Captain of his local gun club for years.

Enter Dirty Harry et al.

One day over a beer, Bobbie was telling me about a new member: a successful car trader. Having managed, somehow, to progress through the rigorous training and evaluation, eventually this bloke managed to graduate to full bore pistols. And used to revel in blasting seven shades of c*** out of static range targets with a Smith and Wesson .44 Magnum! He even took along one of his salesmen to re-load mags as if he was Earl Whatyoumacallit loading his series of Purdeys on a grouse shoot!

Whereas Bobbie took maximum allowed time for each of his eleven shots and achieved on average high 90s.

Bobby soon managed to throw the bugger out as a nut and a danger to life and limb.

Nothing new, except motor sport, saloons especially, has suffered nuts before. The ongoing angst between Gerry Amato and Ray Calcutt finished up with Amato suffering a ban. Sadly Richard Sandilands who had built a very quick saloon around an old Standard Ten with his brother, suffered a serious life-threatening accident at Paddock in the 1960s and Richard never raced again. All else apart probably Richard and his bro couldn't afford to rebuild the car from scratch. His only fault was to get between the two seasons long fight between Amato and Calcutt.

http://forums.autosport.com/topic/15...nsign-in-1964/

Dear old Doc Murfield took both of these "gentlemen" to the side one day in a paddock, picked 'em up by the scruff of the neck and banged their heads soundly together, advising them to bloody grow up!

Today, the Doc would probably be next in line in the dock after Rolf Harris.......

Mores the pity.

[Al Weyman]

Well as I said on the other post, I heard what I believe is a true tale of badly falling standards in another very prestigious club, so bad that some guys I know have withdrawn from racing with them. The main perpetrator like your 44 Magnum man was taken to one side and told he would be thrown out the club unless he cleaned up his act. His unbelievable response was to threaten to sue the club if they take that action (probably in the Court of Human Rights as denying him his racing but that's conjecture) the result was the club backed down and the driving standards have plummeted further as they are seen as unable to control it. When I ran the Racing Saloon Car Club if we decided a driver had overstepped the mark we pulled his membership. Only had to do it once or twice, one guy came round to my house asking had I seen Touring cars on TV and he was doing nothing wrong and left the club never to be seen again, the other one listened to us older guys and went on to become a great driver and a race instructor!

[historic racer]

Yes the driving standardsin QMN/Tin Tops certainly leaves a lot to be desired, in 2012 at Mallory my son was taken out at the first corner by a suicidal overtake by whom I cant remember, at Lydden someone deliberatly chopped him off when all that was required was to leave a foot gap and at Brands the car was heavily hit in the back by Lee Allen in a BMW Mini at paddock when Allen stood no chance of making the corner and used the back of our car as the stopper, this was in PRACTISE. My son was leading the Sydney Allard Championship so we were left with no useable bumper damaged tailgate and wrecked ehxaust, we managed to just about make it useable and he went on to win the Championship, all Allen did was to get a load of new panels , bumper, radiator etc out of the back of his very expensive well stocked transporter ! We have not raced with them since and the grids are down by 50% on what they were, so something must be amiss. More info by the OP might be useful ?

[Dom]

Originally Posted by grichie87

Just a chat about driving standards, every race I have had damage discuss.....

Thats best taken up with your Drivers Rep/Club/CofC, rather than in public opening up this can of worms again! Unless this is a very general moan rather than QMN specific

[BertMk2]

From what I've seen of various clubs and championships this season QMN is no worse than a lot of others - there's been some heroically boneheaded driving in races at all levels from club to international.

[Tim Falce]

We had similar at Brands for the American Speed Fest, I'd say, not including the Nascars, the driving was in general exemplary except for one person in a Mustang who took out a couple of cars, one ended in the armco, drove into the back of a MClaren and also overtook me under a safety car so It's certainly not limited to one series.

[grichie87]

Originally Posted by Dom

Thats best taken up with your Drivers Rep/Club/CofC, rather than in public opening up this can of worms again! Unless this is a very general moan rather than QMN specific

Have done both no joy so far, the driver briefing is all very hot on standards but seam to have no will to take action. QMN is a great championship and all we are trying to do is save it from going the same way that the other championship went. Refuse entries for a race and exclude if repeat poor driving. Or ALL drivers involved in a incident 1 race ban, that will make everyone careful....simples

[historic racer]

Originally Posted by Dom

Thats best taken up with your Drivers Rep/Club/CofC, rather than in public opening up this can of worms again! Unless this is a very general moan rather than QMN specific

Dosen't undo the damage already done, anyway the worst culprits have always got their excuse sorted, our Brands accident was blamed by the culprit on brake failure, strange that , didnt see any mechanics working on the brakes after though !!!!!!

[Al Weyman]

It that's the excuse then maybe the car should have been inspected in Parc Ferme

[historic racer]

If you have a look at the BARCSE website today the " picture of the day " shows a blue BMW no2, that alraedy has a well mangled front bumper, buried in the rear quater of a MK1 Escort trying to push pass him.Think that picture sums up what the OP was trying to get across.

[Al Weyman]

Now there is a coincidence, I just commented on that photo in facebook and said that I wouldn't be too proud to stick that up as a promotion! Someone is clearly in the wrong in that shot!

[Al Weyman]

Trouble is that Escort is probably worth twice if not three times the E36 M3 and thereby is the problem with Historic racing, the older machines are getting very valuable and IMHO should be driven with more care on the track.

[Bob Gray]

There is a sequence of shots showing most of the "accident" involving the Escort and BMW on the 2nd page.http://barcsoutheast.co.uk/Galleries...mn2206142.html

[IAN #51]

Just had a look at the sequence of photos .it looks as if the Bmw hits the Escort hard looking at the way the suspension has reacted ! If I were the driver of the Escort I would insist on action by the Coc and if brake failure is claimed to be at blame. I would ask for some proof to be provided . That kind of driving would not be welcome in any club race

Ian

[Bob Gray]

My understanding is that the driver of the BMW,Jamie Liptrott received points on his licence, strangely the "photo of the day " has now been removed from Facebook and barcse website.

[historic racer]

Yes it may have been removed but the fact that it was put there in the first place shows the mental attitude to this type of incident by the officials of the club. When I complained about my sons incident at Brands was told it was just an accident and no action would be taken, this bearing in mind we had done all rounds and the other driver was having a one off race. Never could find out wether he had paid his club membership or not ,suspect he was just a let in for one race, could so easily have wrecked what we had worked so hard for during the whole season.

[Copperbottom]

[QUOTE=historic racer;3430533] the fact that it was put there in the first place shows the mental attitude to this type of incident by the officials of the club. QUOTE]

I think that the webmaster (also photographer) Rafal who is nothing to do with the officials put the photo up off of his own back not realising that it would give the wrong impression of the club.

[Tim Falce]

750MC do this all the time on their web site and newsletters, It doesn't give a good impression imo and look at the video doing the rounds on Youtube of their stock hatch race at Snetterton.
I used to photograph the JEC races until I was told one day that my pictures weren't good enough because I didn't get any crashes. Says it all really, I know it's what the public want to see but as drivers I feel It's the last thing we need published.

[Alan Cherry]

Any thoughts on the following idea that may help - is it too simplistic, or might it work ? Cost in materials £5-£10 per car.
1/Build into next years regs requirement to have 3 fuse holders on front of car - One in centre (bumper height) and one on each corner,
2/ Glass fuses in each holder.
3/ Ignition circuit to be routed via all 3 fuses in series.
4/ Any method to bipass this would mean disqualification from the series for the whole season.
5/ Drive into anyone and your race is over - end of

Any views on this welcomed
p.s. May work well in the BTCC - how many cars would finish though?


Alan