Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: FlagMarshal.com MarshalsGuide.com Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Racing Talk > Marshals Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 13 Feb 2002, 22:40 (Ref:215525)   #1
DarrellB
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
United Kingdom
Wiltshire
Posts: 283
DarrellB should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
good and bad points of training days

As someone who has been involved with a number of training days and who is intending to assist at the THRUXTON training days this weekend, I thought it would be useful to find out what it is that marshals of different grades/experience/disciplines want from the training days that tend to occur around this time of year.

Once the trainig days have happened it would also be useful to find out what you think are the good and bad points of any sessions you have attended this year.

It may help with the planning of any future sessions
DarrellB is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Feb 2002, 00:10 (Ref:215576)   #2
rick vaux
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location:
Hertfordshire
Posts: 498
rick vaux should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
DB,
We are usually asked this question at the end of our t/d,(brdc)and to be honest, i think that the day can sometimes go on a little long given whats envolved .Depending what grade you are ,will obviously dictate what goes on.But i feel that at incident level, the day should have more about dealing with incidents , and what can and does go wrong,like wise what can and does go right.Its easy to go and do the practical side of things.But i think that as Silverstone has so many vidio images, that things can be looked at and incidents gone through thouroughly, to see if improvements can be made.After all ,we attend these training days for one reason,to get better at what we do.
rick vaux is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Feb 2002, 11:36 (Ref:215766)   #3
Stephen Green
Race Official
Veteran
 
Stephen Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
England
Faversham, Kent
Posts: 13,038
Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!
Interesting question Darrell. Personally I find them a little repetitive, but then I have been to so many that it's bound to happen I suppose. The practical side of training days is always a good thing to go through, fire training etc etc, all serves to get you prepared for that horrible day when a car bursts into flames in front of your eyes.

At Brands we often end the day with a guest driver or two who give their views on marshals from the drivers perspective. It's always done in light spirit but does prove that drivers do not always see the flags being waved at them when in a heated race situation. The overwealming feeling is that drivers have great respect for marshals and the job we do.

What would I change? I think it would be nice if some of the lecturers made it a little more interesting when they talk!

Stephen.
Stephen Green is offline  
__________________
The Priest Catcher
Honoured recipient of the BARC Browning Medal
Quote
Old 14 Feb 2002, 14:52 (Ref:215872)   #4
Richard Sneader
Veteran
 
Richard Sneader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Scotland
Grays, Essex
Posts: 676
Richard Sneader should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hi,
I think some of the problems with training day lectures is the some of the people who do the lectures dont have any instructing/ experience themselves so therfore dont know how to project themselves.
They drone go off the point and totally mislead or teach the wrong thing are are not uptodate with changes.
Some of the things i have seen at training days would make you laugh.
a few years ago at Donington I was in my early grades and was at a session being taughthow to do a controlled roll of a car.
A usefull skill to practise i thought. During this session( which was practicle) a few marshals started asking questions. No problems there i thought untill I relised the instructor was starting to babble on and go off the point. I then asked as people were starting to get p****d off How many times this instructor had performed this roll.
Never he sais as I dont work trackside.
I rest my case!!!.
This is as I say just one of the things I could mention.
Richard Sneader..
P.S.: Anyone need somthing to do this Sunday Lydden Hill has Rally X on. Sign on is at 10:45.
Richard Sneader is offline  
__________________
Heartstart courses are for everyone to learn to save a life.
Quote
Old 15 Feb 2002, 20:54 (Ref:216723)   #5
KayBee
Veteran
 
KayBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
England
Royston Vasey
Posts: 1,611
KayBee should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Something I think all Training Day lecturers should do is practise giving their talk in front of a mirror. As a teacher it is something we are advised to do and it would help those people who are not used to standing up in front of a crowd of people.
KayBee is offline  
__________________
Green bit slippy, black bit grippy.
Quote
Old 15 Feb 2002, 21:03 (Ref:216737)   #6
Stephen Green
Race Official
Veteran
 
Stephen Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
England
Faversham, Kent
Posts: 13,038
Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!
I'd certainly second that suggestion KayBee. Whereabouts do you teach?
Stephen Green is offline  
__________________
The Priest Catcher
Honoured recipient of the BARC Browning Medal
Quote
Old 16 Feb 2002, 16:18 (Ref:217199)   #7
KayBee
Veteran
 
KayBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
England
Royston Vasey
Posts: 1,611
KayBee should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Stephen I teach in Greater Manchester.

I would like to add some other points that those who run Training days might like to consider.

As a newish marshal who will be attending next weekends Training Days I cannot comment on the content but can on the presentation. Trainers should remember that the trainees are probably not used to getting up so early on a Saturday morning - the rooms are warm and the trainees may go to sleep, they would like some variety in presentation - not the fourth Powerpoint talk, whilst the trainer may be giving the talk for the first time the trainees could have been sat there for quite awhile.

It would help as well if the trainer either had help or knew how the equipment they were using worked.

One of the best training days I attended was a bike one where we were actually shown what you should bring with you in your bag and what clothes you should wear. We also practised Incident handling on a model of Anglesey.
KayBee is offline  
__________________
Green bit slippy, black bit grippy.
Quote
Old 16 Feb 2002, 16:47 (Ref:217215)   #8
Stuart Hill
Veteran
 
Stuart Hill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
England
Posts: 1,909
Stuart Hill should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridStuart Hill should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
For those of you in the North, some of the best training days are held at Oulton Park. They lean heavily on practical traing eg trainee I/O's get greens and reds to control in a number of mixed bag incidents. These can range from a simple pull-off that turns into a heart attack upto a multiple car/track blocked (but NO option for red flag!). They may even throw in aggresive drivers some of whom are very convicing as I know from first hand !!!
Stuart Hill is offline  
__________________
Never explain–your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway
Quote
Old 16 Feb 2002, 19:21 (Ref:217282)   #9
KayBee
Veteran
 
KayBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
England
Royston Vasey
Posts: 1,611
KayBee should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
That's where I'll be next weekend (Oulton) learning how to handle an incident and which flag to stick out.
KayBee is offline  
__________________
Green bit slippy, black bit grippy.
Quote
Old 16 Feb 2002, 20:08 (Ref:217310)   #10
Stuart Hill
Veteran
 
Stuart Hill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
England
Posts: 1,909
Stuart Hill should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridStuart Hill should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
KB,
it's a great place to learn, unlike the missus!!!!! her first time flagging, apart from speed events, was at a Champ Car race!!!! talk about in at the deep end!!!!!

have fun.
p.s. see her here in action !!!!

http://www.houscca.com/photos/racing...1/Dsc00034.jpg
Stuart Hill is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Feb 2002, 13:56 (Ref:217749)   #11
KayBee
Veteran
 
KayBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
England
Royston Vasey
Posts: 1,611
KayBee should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Crazystu I have already had two days practical car flagging - I did the August Bank Holiday TOCA meeting, at probably the best viewpoint for the whole track, at Knickerbrook In. We had a great view of Yvan Muller careering down the Avenue, missing two other drivers and giving the Firetruck marshals something to do when he finally came to rest.

The first place I ever flagged at was Croft on a weekend when it rained continually and having never marshalled before, didn't have either the right footwear or clothing was stuck out of the way on the flag point. The Sector marshal and one of the other marshals talked me through the proceedures and by lunchtime I was hooked - flagging was for me. I should add that this was bike marshalling.
KayBee is offline  
__________________
Green bit slippy, black bit grippy.
Quote
Old 17 Feb 2002, 21:24 (Ref:218093)   #12
DarrellB
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
United Kingdom
Wiltshire
Posts: 283
DarrellB should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Some good points being raised already. It seems that a common point is that the sessions need to be made interesting and delivered in an interesting way most preferably by someone who has the right experience. Maybe the sessions need to be short and sharp and made as practical as possible.
DarrellB is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Feb 2002, 23:38 (Ref:218225)   #13
rick vaux
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location:
Hertfordshire
Posts: 498
rick vaux should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hi all.
Just had training day at Silvertsone.
Well, first off our group went and had a talk for an hour and a half regarding bike marshaling.To bo honest all i learnt from that was how to remove a helmet from an unconsious rider!!
Next was an hour spent with a training I/O dealing with incidents at Brooklands.Two cars were driven into the gravel at various speeds, we had to push them out, next was lunch for an hour.Just about recovered from all that pushing.Next was a video session due to last one and a half hours, an incident was shown from two different angles,we were asked to give our views on how the incident was dealt with.After ten minuites one instructor left the room, never to return.After an hour we were finished....
Then spent fifteen mins talking with each other in the paddock waiting for half three to arrive so we could have the closing speeches...Which could have got quite heated a one point...Then an hours drive home to see the family.
Boy oh boy what an interesting day i had...
rick vaux is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Feb 2002, 18:42 (Ref:218537)   #14
Richard Sneader
Veteran
 
Richard Sneader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Scotland
Grays, Essex
Posts: 676
Richard Sneader should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I was told by a couple of marshals the other day about about the wonderful practicle fire training at Thruxton at the weekend. ( I was not there so I am only going on word and mouth).
Basicly a car was set alight and the marshals got to put it out.THATS IT.
Tey said at no point was any sort of pointers or instruction shown or any de brief after putting the fire out. At the end of it they thought it was a waste of time attending.
I have seen training like this and heard of it at other circuits and think to myself why.
At Combe if it is your first training day as a trainee and then going on the bank for the following year you dont do fire practicle. All you do is have a squirt of a bottle to see what it feels like. This does note build up confidence in the new marshal especially if they have to tackle a track fire for real during a meeting.
I would like to think I insruct it well at Brands to the groups I take through fire training. As far as the feed back goes to me I have not had a bad word yet.
There still seems to be this you have been marshaling for 20 years so you must know everything and you can teach fire practicle. Then you find out this person does 2 trials a year or works in something else on racedays so never tackles fires.(This is an example only and does not reflect anybody).
The people that actally instruct on training days need to know there subject or be doing that grade to teach. For example I am an IO training for Observer and instruct practicle fire training or incident handling so it would be know use me instructing assembly area marshaling or timekeepers. Get my point.
I believe the various clubs should stop doing this friend of a friend attitude and use people who do actually know there subject and do there grade reguarly and can show they have the ability to instruct marshals without putting them to sleep. I am a qulified first aid instructor and I always put in a large portion of humour, make my lessons a 2 way thing have the odd competition with the class and as much practicle as possible.This keeps people interested and awake and dont have lessons that are to long.
(P.S. Kieth you were the most wonderful observer on Sunday especially as your chair did more reports than your pen. Only joking thanks for a good day mate see you on Saturday.)
Richard...
Richard Sneader is offline  
__________________
Heartstart courses are for everyone to learn to save a life.
Quote
Old 18 Feb 2002, 18:55 (Ref:218543)   #15
Stephen Green
Race Official
Veteran
 
Stephen Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
England
Faversham, Kent
Posts: 13,038
Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!
And I will see you Saturday and Sunday. Saturday for the practcal fire training and Sunday for Observers. Yippee, time to put a few fires out again, demonstrate what happens when you squirt water/foam on a tray fire and all the usual stuff.

On a serious note, we instructors at Brands do try and make the fires as realistic as possible. That includes punching a few holes in the floor of the car to allow fuel to seep through, spreading petrol around the car to try and catch the marshals out with fires creaping back behind them. All in all, we try to make it as realistic as possible. The problem is we usually run out of fuel, extinguishers, time and daylight. Still, it's a great day and I can't wait!
Stephen Green is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Feb 2002, 21:24 (Ref:218634)   #16
rick vaux
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location:
Hertfordshire
Posts: 498
rick vaux should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
No fire training at Silverstone last weekend,me wonders why ..
rick vaux is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Feb 2002, 21:18 (Ref:220873)   #17
DarrellB
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
United Kingdom
Wiltshire
Posts: 283
DarrellB should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
All experienced teachers know the importance of providing positive feedback to their students/trainees otherwise how will they know if they have actually learnt anything at the end of a lesson.

Another important issue is ensuring that the trainees participate in the activities. Marshalling is essentially a practical activity so there should be plenty of opportunities to make interesting practicals which gets them involved.

We are always looking at reasons why people do not continue to marshal but we do not always help ourselves by making the training sessions dull and too long which will not encourage people to stay.

The days need to be well planned and full of activity to make them interesting and worthwhile. Sessions do not need to last for hours it must be better to have several shorter sessions instead.
DarrellB is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Feb 2002, 21:46 (Ref:220914)   #18
Stephen Green
Race Official
Veteran
 
Stephen Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
England
Faversham, Kent
Posts: 13,038
Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!Stephen Green has a real shot at the podium!
Exactly! Couldn't have put it better myself!
Stephen Green is offline  
__________________
The Priest Catcher
Honoured recipient of the BARC Browning Medal
Quote
Old 27 Mar 2002, 20:12 (Ref:245355)   #19
DarrellB
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
United Kingdom
Wiltshire
Posts: 283
DarrellB should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Now the majority of training sessions have been done any further comments regarding the organisation and content of the training sessions you have attended.

These comments will be taken and used for the organisation of next years training days.

For example would people be interested in evening sessions during the summer (these can turn into a bit of a social event as well) I have done many evening sessions on rescue training (must be something to do with the sessions being in a pub )but there never seems to be any for other disciplines.
DarrellB is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Training Days snatch man Marshals Forum 25 14 Jan 2006 18:46
Training Days allanh Marshals Forum 4 7 Nov 2004 23:51
Training days - Suggestions please JimW Marshals Forum 13 14 Mar 2004 12:10
Training days aprescott Marshals Forum 19 28 Nov 2003 20:16
List of training days DarrellB Marshals Forum 5 12 Feb 2002 06:36


All times are GMT. The time now is 22:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.