Why does Bernie care about the noise but not the look?

[browney]

Hi,
I thought it was really strange that Bernie was so vocal on the issue of the engine type for 2014 due to the noise but hasn't said anything about the car's looks this year.

These cars are posers, models and desktop wallpapers for people and while there are plenty of cars that haven't looked great, this year must be the first where they are all (except the Mac) directly due to a rule change. I can't imagine many people will have a poster of this ears Ferrari.

I would have thought this would have a commercial impact? I am surprised no-one took the people writing the regs aside and made it obvious what the cars would look like (it was obvious to journos that the cars would have an ugly step in them and the teams must have all known).

[knighty]

go to youtube and listen to a diesel powered Audi or Pug LMP1 from the spectators side at LeMans, the tyres are louder than the engine, the old gasoline turbo R8 was no louder........then listen to an electric bike race.........all are as dull as ditch water in terms of noise........the noise is a big issue to the spectators and I think Bernie is quite right to be concerned about it........I have reason to believe the new F1 engines will sound very similar to the ill-fated AMR-One LeMans car, which was a 2.0 I6 single turbo.........music.......eventually I think they will sound fab.........I went to Silverstone this year and I have to say I think currnt F1 cars are way too loud, it was just painful, my drink was tizzing in my hand!!

[wolfhound]

Was Bernie the owner of a team that won the first WDC with a 1.5litre turbo, now he wants nothing to do with them.

[wolfhound]

Mind you his cars always looked good.

[Peter Mallett]

It is strange but don't forget back in the 80's we had 1500 bhp four cylinder qualifying engines that reved to extremes. They also ran on some seriously questionable fuels. The noise was incredible! These days things are different. The base, normally aspirated, engine is smaller, ergo the turbo engine will be smaller. The revs will be capped also. Hence the noise won't invoke the excitement that it did all those years ago.

I stand to be corrected on this.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by browney

this year must be the first where they are all (except the Mac) directly due to a rule change.

The wing changes in 2009. And 2010 when the proportions became even worse because of the need for bigger fuel tanks. In F1, ugly is the new cool.

[Bononi]

Ugly is beautiful...

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Ugly is beautiful...

You can't imagine just how many years I've been waiting for this to be true...

[Thaw Daggerslash]

Originally Posted by knighty

I went to Silverstone this year and I have to say I think currnt F1 cars are way too loud, it was just painful, my drink was tizzing in my hand!!

There's always one isn't there...

[sublimao]

Bernie is right, engine sound is addicted. Without powerful noise the races
will seem management meetings, few days ago I saw a brand new electric
karts track, very nice, very eco friendly, but the sound was terribly missing.
Best engine sounds: matra V12 and Ferrari flat 12, am I right or wrong?

[vincegail]

Originally Posted by knighty

I have reason to believe the new F1 engines will sound very similar to the ill-fated AMR-One LeMans car, which was a 2.0 I6 single turbo.........music.......eventually I think they will sound fab

You got to hear the AMR-One? I missed its lap during qualifying last year. Nice to hear something positive about it, though.

[vincegail]

Originally Posted by sublimao

Best engine sounds: matra V12 and Ferrari flat 12, am I right or wrong?

Formula 1 only: Yes!

[Richyy]

With you all F1 need to be ear - splitting !

also every road car should sound like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YloMhEZnFZo

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

It is strange but don't forget back in the 80's we had 1500 bhp four cylinder qualifying engines that reved to extremes. They also ran on some seriously questionable fuels. The noise was incredible! These days things are different. The base, normally aspirated, engine is smaller, ergo the turbo engine will be smaller. The revs will be capped also. Hence the noise won't invoke the excitement that it did all those years ago.

I stand to be corrected on this.

Strangely enough, I think the turbos of the 80's only managed to get up to around 11-12,000 rpm. Fords DFR V8 revved to around 11,000 rpm. Only in qualifying trim did the turbo engines achieve 1,500 bhp, and then they were finished. Much less than 1,000 bhp in race trim.

The new V6 turbos will be limited to 15,000 rpm, and the single turbo should ensure that the noise comes out of a single tail pipe, which usually makes for a better noise. Bhp isn't limited, but fuel is.

Originally Posted by Richyy

With you all F1 need to be ear - splitting !

also every road car should sound like this

What? What did you say?

As for the thread starters question...I'm sure that Bernie would like someone to design a gorgeous looking spec chassis to save everyone else from a lot of trouble.

[steve nielsen]

this is what F1 cars should sound like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6D7S2rcyIQ

[barnettracing]

I find the argument about noise ridiculous. I've grown up with modern, 16000+ rpm F1 engines, and I think they sound horrid trackside.

A BDA sounds superb and that's only a 1600cc 4cyl engine revving to c.9500rpm. Likewise, the comparatively low revving DFV and turbo cars are music to my ears. I'd much prefer the cars were beautiful to look at.

I don't buy the argument about the Audi and Peugeot prototypes; Le Mans is all about the diversity to me, and that includes sound. If then 2014 F1 engines sound anything like the new V6 Indycar powerplants then I'll be happy.

[Richyy]

WOW - that is quite a sound on that ! still prefer Aston though

[Thundersports]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

It is strange but don't forget back in the 80's we had 1500 bhp four cylinder qualifying engines that reved to extremes. They also ran on some seriously questionable fuels. The noise was incredible! These days things are different. The base, normally aspirated, engine is smaller, ergo the turbo engine will be smaller. The revs will be capped also. Hence the noise won't invoke the excitement that it did all those years ago.

I stand to be corrected on this.

Agree........

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by knighty

go to youtube and listen to a diesel powered Audi or Pug LMP1 from the spectators side at LeMans, the tyres are louder than the engine, the old gasoline turbo R8 was no louder........then listen to an electric bike race.........all are as dull as ditch water in terms of noise........the noise is a big issue to the spectators and I think Bernie is quite right to be concerned about it........I have reason to believe the new F1 engines will sound very similar to the ill-fated AMR-One LeMans car, which was a 2.0 I6 single turbo.........music.......eventually I think they will sound fab.........I went to Silverstone this year and I have to say I think currnt F1 cars are way too loud, it was just painful, my drink was tizzing in my hand!!

Or they could sound like the IndyCar 2.2L V6, which is a throwback to mid 80's F1.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Thundersports

Agree........

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, the 80's turbos didn't rev a lot higher than 11-12,000 rpm, even in 12-1500 bhp qualifying trim. The V8 DFR Cosworth (used by the majority of F1 cars during the turbo era) didn't rev much above 11,000 rpm.

The subsequent generations of naturally aspirated V8, V10 and V12 engines, made more power the higher they revved. That goes for any naturally aspirated engine where the cubic capacity is fixed.

Back to topic.

Yes, the cars aren't lookers. But you can't have regulations that regulate to make F1 cars beautiful. It's not a beauty contest.

[JeremySmith]

I think the 2014 V6 Turbo engine will sound fine, Would they would produce a lame sounding F1 engine.....

[Thundersports]

Marbot the Turbo cars all sounded different as did the 90s cars the current crop seem to sound the same. Sadly I think that trend will continue.

[JeremySmith]

I am sure each car will sound slightly different....

[Peralta]

Originally Posted by sublimao

Bernie is right, engine sound is addicted. Without powerful noise the races
will seem management meetings, few days ago I saw a brand new electric
karts track, very nice, very eco friendly, but the sound was terribly missing.
Best engine sounds: matra V12 and Ferrari flat 12, am I right or wrong?

Lamborghini v12 down the Monza straight is a noise I'll never forget. So yes noise is everything in F1. Looks is subjective and I actually like this years cars. I thing now the McLaren looks outdated.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by Peralta

Lamborghini v12 down the Monza straight is a noise I'll never forget. So yes noise is everything in F1. Looks is subjective and I actually like this years cars. I thing now the McLaren looks outdated.

Sorry if I have misunderstood, do you consider that engine noise is subjective as well?