2015 BTRDA Clubmans Rallycross Championship

[AlamakiRX]

The 2015 BTRDA Clubmans Rallycross Championship Officially Launched at Croft at the weekend;

2015 Autosport International BTRDA Clubmans Rallycross Championship

*Autosport International 8th-11th January NEC (live arena & static display).

* February 22nd non msa test day Blyton Circuit.

R1 March 8th Blyton Circuit
R2 June 6th Pembrey Circuit
R3 June 7th Pembrey Circuit
R4 September 19th Pembrey Circuit
R5 September 20th Pembrey Circuit
R6 October 18th Blyton Circuit
R7 November 15th Croft Circuit

6 events from 7 to count.

Same class structure as 2014 check out the following for more information;

www.clubmansrallycross.weebly.com
www.btrda.com

[leonidas]

Looks like a good calendar and great to see the clubmans' championship going from strength to strength. My only slight gripe is that it is a shame that there are no events in July/August. For some of us summer is the only time that we can take holiday or have any real spare time. I guess there will still be the Lydden August Bank holiday though.

[AlamakiRX]

Originally Posted by leonidas

Looks like a good calendar and great to see the clubmans' championship going from strength to strength. My only slight gripe is that it is a shame that there are no events in July/August. For some of us summer is the only time that we can take holiday or have any real spare time. I guess there will still be the Lydden August Bank holiday though.

The BTRDA only uses the 3 circuits in the calender, non of which are available in the summer months, July and August. This is down to the circuits owners not wanting Rallycross on their circuits, plus summer months would warrant a high, premium circuit hire fee which would be too expensive to pass onto the Clubman competitor.

This is a shame, but the BTRDA still have a good calender,well spread out dates, and ys the championship is going from strength to strength. Even more cars due to join the grid in 2015...

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by AlamakiRX

The BTRDA only uses the 3 circuits in the calender, non of which are available in the summer months, July and August. This is down to the circuits owners not wanting Rallycross on their circuits, plus summer months would warrant a high, premium circuit hire fee which would be too expensive to pass onto the Clubman competitor.

This is a shame, but the BTRDA still have a good calender,well spread out dates, and ys the championship is going from strength to strength. Even more cars due to join the grid in 2015...

Bearing in mind what the BTRDA have to work with in terms of tracks and availability I think they are doing a cracking job. Its a miracle there's a championship at all under the circumstances and that's testament to those putting the hard work in to make it happen. The number of spectators out at Croft last weekend shows its popularity. Real shame Lydden can't bring themselves to strike a deal with the BTRDA. If Croft can manage to do a deal I'm sure they could if they tried.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by AndyS

Real shame Lydden can't bring themselves to strike a deal with the BTRDA. If Croft can manage to do a deal I'm sure they could if they tried.

Agreed - I just don't understand Lyddens stance on this. Surely it's in their interest to have a strong clubmans series? People can then learn the ropes in the BTRDA and then if budget allows compete in the British championship instead / as well.

[bruce.bamber]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Agreed - I just don't understand Lyddens stance on this. Surely it's in their interest to have a strong clubmans series? People can then learn the ropes in the BTRDA and then if budget allows compete in the British championship instead / as well.

Couldn't agree more, surely a summer date at Lydden would work for both parties even as a one off. It would give the BTRDA a much needed summer date and work for Lydden too boosting entries and making the day one to remember! The two championships could surely happily co-exist and come together for one day for each to have a look at the other. A good PR opportunity not to be missed and maybe some fun too.

[chunder]

Simple choice for you.

Write and complain, write to Lydden, write to the MSA.

They have bene unable to agree on anything since the split years ago.

It is utterly pathetic, selfish and actually doing the sport no favours.

But somehow they are allowed, all of them to get away with it.

For whatever reason a championship is allowed to exist that runs different roudns on different days and has only three tracks.

Surely that is neither worth competing in, wirth promoting or even worthy of any kind of status?

I love the sport, ahve done for decades but its current state in the UK is almost worthy of a dog with rabies, just put it down and end the misery!

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by chunder

For whatever reason a championship is allowed to exist that runs different roudns on different days and has only three tracks.

Surely that is neither worth competing in, wirth promoting or even worthy of any kind of status?

I love the sport, ahve done for decades but its current state in the UK is almost worthy of a dog with rabies, just put it down and end the misery!

Sometimes Chunder I wonder why you bother posting on here as you never have a good word to say about the sport. I'm sure those organising and competing in the BTRDA would beg to differ that its worth competing in. Put it down and end the misery and you'll be happy, no I doubt it, you'll then spend your entire time whinging about the fact the sport has died in the UK.

The British scene is what it is, putting it down and ending the misery is about the most ridicules thing I've heard. To be frank either take it for what it is and watch it or go and find something else to do with your time if you find the whole thing so miserable.

Apologies to the rest of you trying to have a sensible conversation about the subject.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by chunder

For whatever reason a championship is allowed to exist that runs different roudns on different days and has only three tracks.

There are other championships that do the same - run multiple rounds on a two day event and then have a 'best n of n' to count system to decide the championship. There are also championships that run on a limited number of circuits so the parallels are there. With the exception of Lydden where else can the BTRDA championship go? Mallory Park looks unlikely to host rallycross and Knockhill is a long trek for most and is usually the event that most people drop if they're going to miss one - realistically Knockhill probably isn't financially viable for the BTRDA championship.

[USRallycross]

Can't agree with Chunder on this one.

I think BTRDA deserve congratulations for how they are building a clubman championship despite not having Lydden Hill made available to them. Not only are they catering to the needs of the majority but also work very hard to promote the sport. Judging by the comments of the crowd at Croft the BRC folk would do well to put the same effort in to attracting people.

So well done John and crew. Hopefully Lydden will see the light because events would help pay the bills and not much else happens there now. Here's to more growth in 2015!

Mark

[chunder]

I do not apologise for anything, and quite frankly don't give a stuff what you think Mr S, if it's not you its someone else on here who seems to think that ANY rallycross is better than a diluted, average, cheap series. And that we have a God given to watch it whatever the alternatives. I would be more than happy to see the sport die in the UK as what we have now is pretty much production car rallycross for 75% of the grid, it is pretty much gone anyway, but the pont is it is not the drivers fault. It is garbage promotion, petty politics and a few idiots who thought they knew better, and they have got away with it after doing quite nicely thankyou very much. Does that not frustrate you?

I do applaud those involved for trying to keep it running, it must be the equivalent of trying to get council house kids into tennis clubs. My point is about the whole sorry situation.

There are no tracks really worth using, they are all miles away from anywhere, and previous promoters have ruined the sport to such an extent that now we have so few tracks and yet they still can't somehow run in the same championship because of petty, pathetic garbage that noone gives a stuff abotu but them. If you want to blame someone blame them not me.

If going away and thinking about it all is good enough for something as big as the British Rally Championship, you know the one that groomed McRae, Burns, Latvala, Mikkelsen, Hirvonen? What on earth does rallycross think it is?

They have made the best of a bad job running two events in two days. It's better for the drivers as they can kill two with one stone, but let's be honest its pretty poor.

It is not their fault, but really?

[flagwaver]

chunder, you seem to want some glory series from the past. Whilst I agree things are not perfect, that doesn't mean we should just stop doing it.

Using the BRC as an example is not really looking at like for like. there where 12 entries in the Scottish this year.

[RobScott]

Flipping heck! Some strong opinions on here.

As a competitor, I love the Btrda championship! The guys are doing an awesome job running the series.
The production cars are great, it gives your average guy, who doesnt have much cash, or maybe much know-how on building race cars, a decent race series with close racing.

The double header this year at pembrey was excellent, such a good crack and atmosphere, the Irish guys seemed to enjoy it too. Two double headers next year is what the sport needs, brings the competitors together, helping each other out to get their cars ready for the next day, having some beers and banter etc.

As my first year in rallycross I've been welcomed by many people and made loads of friends. It's kinda like family.

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by chunder

And that we have a God given to watch it whatever the alternatives. Does that not frustrate you?

I do applaud those involved for trying to keep it running, it must be the equivalent of trying to get council house kids into tennis clubs. My point is about the whole sorry situation.

If you want to blame someone blame them not me.

Who said we have a God given to watch it? As I said before either take it for what it is and watch it or go and do something else with your time if it frustrates you so much. Yes its frustrating its not the way we would like but I can't do anything about it, so I either watch what we do have or don't bother.

I used to love F1 but I don't like the way its gone. Do I spend my entire time on here trashing it at every possible opportunity and derailing normal discussions. No I just don't bother watching it. Its a simple concept really.

There's people involved with the BTRDA giving a lot of their own time and effort to try and give something back to the sport and offer somewhere for people to race. They are working with very limited resources and time and deserve considerable respect and applause for that. Belittling and trashing their efforts and referring it to as a dog with Rabies is just plain rude.

[chunder]

I have not belittled the organisers or anything else, if you read my post I applaud their efforts, so please refrain from trying to put that on me.

And if you have any real understanding of what I am talking about, you know exactly what I mean. Why on earth would anyone criticise their work?

My criticism is aimed at the people, who for many years now, have dragged rallycross to its knees as a national motorsport.

It is born out in the numbers, the lack of tracks, the poor coverage, the 3 or 4 cars in a race and the fact that most of the cars competing are either one make or production based.

The racing is fine, the guys are out there having fun in a relativly cheap sport, but it is a very poor reflection on what rallycross could be and is in other countries.

We have to accept that the sport is never going to flourish in this country and move on. We do not have the tracks, and they do not want muck on their tracks as in a few days after a meeting they might be holding a track day that needs a clean track.

Thats why all this nonsense about going to Brands or Donington or anywhere else is purile.

Rallycrosst is now in my opinion a total club event, lower than drag racing, stock cars, lower than BAS autograss, lower than hillclimb, About the same level as a single venue rally or an amateur PCT or autotest. In which case it is in the hands of the best club, they will run it perfectly as a club series.

Am I happy about that? No. And I am voicing it here. If you are happy, go and pay your money and watch 7 classes with 2 or 3 cars in them.

[AndyS]

You might have praised their efforts in your second post but you were certainly less than complimentary in your initial post. Anyway enough of this its boring.

[RobScott]

The problem ive experienced, is the playstation culture.

Why build one car, when you can have any car or any track on a playstation? for a fraction of the cost.

In our local car clubs, its mainly old guys talking about how the old days used to be, and young guys saying what new colin mcrea game they have on their playstation. very few actually do any racing other than autotests and local road rallies.

[chunder]

Look at it this way?

If you were in Sweden or Finland or Norway you could do folkrace.

I dont know how much it costs, but it looks amazing fun and some guys stay in it for years.

Guy called Daniel Wall raced it for years in Sweden, won the Supernational title a couple of years ago.

We have nothing like that with regard to cars, tracks on a very basic level.

Our licences cost a fortune, the gear does too and entry fees.

I would love tpo know how much it costs to enter a folkrace event?

[RobScott]

I think it's the mentality of most British people, they really can't be arsed doing anything unless it's going to the pub and watching football. Building a car... that takes effort.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by RobScott

Building a car... that takes effort.

It takes time, effort and money. But it's fun

(although it does involve some swearing )

[chunder]

Building a car to compete in MSA events I agree is expensive.

Building one to compete in short ovals or autograss isn't, it is why those series are staying stable and increasing in popularity. They might not be as fashionable and flash and are simple to drive in, but why are they, drag racing, bike enduro.Motox doing well? Coz they are cheap accesible and local to people.

I could compete in some crummy one make series in a hatchback yes. But I could also buy a quad bike for 3 grand, and race it in 3 hour enduros for 40 quid, have some fun, no pit police, no toffs. No massive entry fees, no licence that pays about 6 blokes wages who do nothing at the MSA.

The tide is turning, and we need to look to places like Scandinavia and their formulae and methods to make rallycross thrive, as right now it is only going the same way as any other small time clubman formulae.

[RobScott]

Dude I totally agree with what your saying there. The msa are actually pushing people out of racing. It's like with rallying... 5 year seat rule. What the **** is that about? Is the seats and harnesses look in good condition, then what's the problem. I know a few guys who have given up rallying for this reason.

Anyway. Back on topic maybe?
The reason I didn't go for autograss.. Altho there is a big autograss scene round where I live, is because driving in circles just singly thing. If you find rallycross too expensive, then there's all ways autocross. £60 entry fee, build a car for a few hundred quid, or a few grand, it's up to you.

[chunder]

Autocross was the original feeder to rallycross back in the day really. A lot of ex champions did many years in autocross and quite a few guys stayed there.

but sadly it has ben allowed to wither and die, only really supported in regional areas, bit like rallycross really.

It is as near to the Scandinavian method as you can get in this country. We haven't got the land, space or lack of people to run much stuff here.

Over there you can have numerous tracks that are folkrace and rallycross only thereby not having a Palmer *****ing abour dirt, you can use the car in gravel and tar hillclimbs when there is nothing else, and they just seem to make it easier for people to get into low level motorsport.

As I said, I would love to know comparatively how much it costs to compete in folkrace or low level rallycross in Scandinavia.

Regarding autograss, I hear the issue. There is much snobbery about going round in circles, we face it regularly in short oval racing. But the clue there is in the title, racing. The racing is often close, good and quick. Like any series it has issues, in autograss there are now two tiers, BAS for the tax avoidance racers willing to spend 20 grand on racing round a field and low level club racers who can race for a few hundred quid. Never used to be that way but Tim Whittington saw to that in promoting the BAS, as he is maybe doing with rallycross, taking it away from the clubman (and disregarding them as he is doing with WRX)and into the realms of professionals. You would think the guy would know better.

BTRDA is where I see rallycross long term, there should only be one series. Get someone high up from the MSA to sort out this pathetic squabble with Lydden, maybe use the Doran debacle to add some weight. Get rid of the MSA series and lets have BTRDA as the main series.

We all know the answers, sadly noone in control does or wont do anything about it.

[leonidas]

I'm not sure that MSA car build costs are the real problem. Seat rules for rallying are daft but they don't apply to rallycross. If you don't want to build there are plenty of old rally cars out there that can be bought for less than £3k and are practically ready to go. There's a championship winning Saxo up on the clubmans site at the moment for less than £4k... You aren't going to get a decent F2 stock car for that sort of money.

The problem is that there aren't that many rallycross or autocross meetings around so its is difficult to get value out of the car you build. If the meetings clash with work you are in trouble and the lack of summer events don't help. (I understand why this has happened but it does not help).

My view? In the short term, why not think about running a combined clubman championship for both rallycross and autocross? Both MSA national championships have failed. There would be more meetings, more geographical spread of events and more choice for drivers. It might just build up the rallycross and autocross community again. This would cost nothing extra - and what has the sport got to lose?

[chunder]

Good point leo

They used to do that with Minicross until fairly recently, in fact might still do?

I think its one of the best ideas I have seen actually!