When should Michael Schumacher retire?

[wnut]

Okay its consensus then, THE DRIVER MAKES NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL, and Herr Schumacher less difference than most.

[E.B]

Well its fairly clear that as far as 2010 is concerned, MS has made less difference than most.... certainly as far as the bigger budget teams are concerned.

[garcon]

Originally Posted by wnut

Okay its consensus then, THE DRIVER MAKES NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL, and Herr Schumacher less difference than most.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by garcon

Good summary of this whole thread.

One day you may even understand irony.

[Aysedasi]

It does indeed sum up this thread - moderately interesting at first but sadly now deadly boring...... Retire please Michael, put us all out of our misery.....

[garcon]

Originally Posted by wnut

One day you may even understand irony.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by beau1

I believe you're thinking of Senna...or Lewis Hamilton back in 2007/8.

You weren't here when people were confidently claiming TGF could win the title in a Minardi.

[Born Racer]

I suppose the thread has got less interesting because we are all waiting to see how Schumacher does in 2011. Those saying he will get much better are staking it on 2011 and those who doubt it have to wait until then as well. Until then, we are treading water.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I suppose the thread has got less interesting because we are all waiting to see how Schumacher does in 2011. Those saying he will get much better are staking it on 2011 and those who doubt it have to wait until then as well. Until then, we are treading water.

No, I'm not waiting for that. I'm just hoping that TGF and Mercedes come to their senses and put someone else in his seat for 2011.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

You weren't here when people were confidently claiming TGF could win the title in a Minardi.

Ha ha, i remember those days!

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Ha ha, i remember those days!

Hopefully they won't come back.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Hopefully they won't come back.

I'd like Minardi to come back...

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I'd like Minardi to come back...

Yeah, at least they were good underdogs.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I'd like Minardi to come back...

I dont mind the idea of the real Minardi team coming back, even if it were in a different name, but just as long as Stoddart doesnt have any involvement. I was never a fan of his, and on hearing his name mentioned I cant help but remember a picture of him, bearded, with a large Cuban cigar in his mouth..... He looked more like an Alsation having a crap.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I'd like Minardi to come back...

To F2?

[Aysedasi]

With Michael?

[stripedcat]

Well Michael is safe for this year. But next year if he doesn't do well I think he will call it a day. I suspect the way he will judge success for next year is whether he gets podiums or not. Then expecting a winning car for the following year. That is my theory anyway.

His last couple of races have been strong. The testing ban has really hurt him though. I did think that he would have been one of those former champions like Lauda and Prost who could come back and win again. There is still time I suppose.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by stripedcat

I did think that he would have been one of those former champions like Lauda and Prost who could come back and win again. There is still time I suppose.

I'm sure that's what he thought too. We all make mistakes from time to time, even retired multiple WDC's.....

[chunterer]

But the whole shabang is different to when Prost and Lauda made their much heralded returns.

You can't get in these things and be competitive straight off these days without a zillion miles of testing, or perhaps having a car that is night and day quicker than the opposition.

I think Schuey has done ok with what he's had at his disposal without being able to test for days on end like he always used to in the Ferrari years.

Agreed though, pre season 2011 will be the key factor for him

[Wims]

Originally Posted by E.B

I dont mind the idea of the real Minardi team coming back, even if it were in a different name, but just as long as Stoddart doesnt have any involvement. I was never a fan of his, and on hearing his name mentioned I cant help but remember a picture of him, bearded, with a large Cuban cigar in his mouth..... He looked more like an Alsation having a crap.

Minardi is still there, under a different name, without Stoddart. Its called Toro Rosso

[chillibowl]

at this point in the season, after all the km's he has covered during winter and race weekends, is his lack of time in the car still a concern? the testing rules are not changing next year so if it is a problem this year wont it continue to be a problem next year?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by stripedcat

Well Michael is safe for this year. But next year if he doesn't do well I think he will call it a day. I suspect the way he will judge success for next year is whether he gets podiums or not. Then expecting a winning car for the following year. That is my theory anyway.

His last couple of races have been strong. The testing ban has really hurt him though. I did think that he would have been one of those former champions like Lauda and Prost who could come back and win again. There is still time I suppose.

Lauda initially retired in 1979 and returned in 1982, however he didn't win the his third WDC untl 1984, so I think what you are saying about the testing ban makes sense.

Prost never actually retired, he couldn't get a drive for 1992 as his bid to buy the Ligier team for that season fell through.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Lauda initially retired in 1979 and returned in 1982, however he didn't win the his third WDC until 1984, so I think what you are saying about the testing ban makes sense.

Yes, but lets not forget that Lauda, driving a DFV engined McLaren, also won his third race back, and followed that up with another win at the British GP.... at a time when Ferrari and Renault were getting on with their turbo engines.

The cars were probably more different in 1982 to 1979 than cars today from 2006 given the aero advances and the arrival of full ground effects.

Lauda was also the fastest DFV qualifier (for the race he won) by almost a second over next fastest DFV man Piquet, and almost 1.5 secs quicker than his teammate.

1983 was a year that saw McLaren still with the DFV, in a field now dominated by Turbos with the addition of the BMW Turbo for BMW, Honda were in as engine supplier along with Hart, and also the release of Renault customer turbos for Lotus left McLaren one of the few teams with non turbo power.

The second half of the season Lauda led to race development of their Porsche Turbo engine so any development problems (of which there were many) could be ironed out in time for the 1984 season. Come 1984 the engine was good, and with Prost as teammate, well versed with turbo power following his time and Renault (and having missed the 1983 title by two points) the pair won 6 races each on their way to a WDC 1-2 with Lauda taking the title with only one points finish that was not at least a 2nd placed podium.....

Lauda's return to F1 was majestic and classy..... Schumacher's returb to F1 has been comparatively woeful, with his qualifying pace being particularly suspect and a teamate who he has rarely come that close to matching, despite the chassis being lengthened to suit Michael early in the year not making any difference.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by E.B

Yes, but lets not forget that Lauda, driving a DFV engined McLaren, also won his third race back, and followed that up with another win at the British GP.... at a time when Ferrari and Renault were getting on with their turbo engines.

The cars were probably more different in 1982 to 1979 than cars today from 2006 given the aero advances and the arrival of full ground effects.

Lauda was also the fastest DFV qualifier (for the race he won) by almost a second over next fastest DFV man Piquet, and almost 1.5 secs quicker than his teammate.

1983 was a year that saw McLaren still with the DFV, in a field now dominated by Turbos with the addition of the BMW Turbo for BMW, Honda were in as engine supplier along with Hart, and also the release of Renault customer turbos for Lotus left McLaren one of the few teams with non turbo power.

The second half of the season Lauda led to race development of their Porsche Turbo engine so any development problems (of which there were many) could be ironed out in time for the 1984 season. Come 1984 the engine was good, and with Prost as teammate, well versed with turbo power following his time and Renault (and having missed the 1983 title by two points) the pair won 6 races each on their way to a WDC 1-2 with Lauda taking the title with only one points finish that was not at least a 2nd placed podium.....

Lauda's return to F1 was majestic and classy..... Schumacher's returb to F1 has been comparatively woeful, with his qualifying pace being particularly suspect and a teamate who he has rarely come that close to matching, despite the chassis being lengthened to suit Michael early in the year not making any difference.

The cars in '79 and '82 were both full ground effect, the only major difference was the cars in '79 had sliding skirts as opposed to fixed skirts in '82.

Though McLaren started the '83 season with a DFV, so did many other teams, like Arrows, Ligier, Lotus, Osella, Williams, Tyrrell. However, the DFV teams that made the transition to turbos either did so after midway through the season, or towards the end of it.

Lauda won the WDC in '84 from Prost by .5 of a point.

In comparison Schumacher's return is woeful but as you've said and I agree, I think a lot of his lack of success is due to the ban on testing.

[Knowlesy]

But he is just sooo adaptable?