Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 24 Feb 2017, 03:49 (Ref:3714391)   #1
Alan52
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Australia
Glenmore Park
Posts: 1,634
Alan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAlan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
ARDC destroys Muscle Car Masters

Since 2005 the Muscle Car Masters has been one of the most enjoyable dates on Australia's motor racing calendar.This year the ARDC has decided to wreck the joint.
They have announced they are running a 6 Hour combined Production Car/Prodsports/Improved Production race at the meeting split into 2 3 hour races with one on each day.If you don't immediately realise how ridiculous this is let me give you a few reasons
1This is a historic car based meeting
22-3 of the existing historic categories will have to be axed to make time on the schedule
3None of the top Production car teams will run partially because they are mixed in with other categories and partially because it is only a few weeks before the final round of their national series
4 Very few people want to watch long distance Production racing.When 3-4 hour events have been held there on Nationals programs most people have either left at or just after the start if it was in the afternoon or arrived when it was finishing if it was in the morning.
5Muscle Car Masters is not a cheap ticket only about $10 less than a Supercar round at the track.I think most of the crowd will decide it is not worth the money for half a days historic sprint racing and stay home
6There was little competitor support for this race concept when it was scheduled for January and was cancelled due to lack of entries
The ARDC press release for this talks about it being a "good fit" for the MCM.No it isn't.
I have been a member of the ARDC for over 40 years and never thought they could make a decision as stupid as their sign off on the track extensions which wasted $10 mill on a piece of road where speeds were more suited to a car park rather than a race track but this comes close.
Alan52 is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Feb 2017, 08:12 (Ref:3714423)   #2
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,396
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I agree. Modern-ish production cars don't really have a place at MCM.
Umai Naa is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Feb 2017, 09:23 (Ref:3714433)   #3
mtpanorama
Veteran
 
mtpanorama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Australia
Bathurst (best racetrack in the world)
Posts: 2,485
mtpanorama should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Moving MCM from fathers day was a stupid idea, but this is the final nail in the coffin.
mtpanorama is offline  
__________________
I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder

I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good, either
Quote
Old 24 Feb 2017, 10:28 (Ref:3714445)   #4
one five five
Veteran
 
one five five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,260
one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Aren't Chevron part-owners of the MCM too?

I don't think it will make much difference or lose any categories will it?

The Saturday 3hr is being held into dusk, and the Sunday 3hr part is held in the morning, i don't think it will interfere that much.

They've been doing the same things since 2005, and its not as if modern cars haven't raced at MCM before. They've had Aussie Racing Cars, Kuhmo V8s, modern Sports Sedans etc....

It'll be right
one five five is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Feb 2017, 21:47 (Ref:3714584)   #5
Alan52
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Australia
Glenmore Park
Posts: 1,634
Alan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAlan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Aren't Chevron part-owners of the MCM too?

I don't think it will make much difference or lose any categories will it?

The Saturday 3hr is being held into dusk, and the Sunday 3hr part is held in the morning, i don't think it will interfere that much.

They've been doing the same things since 2005, and its not as if modern cars haven't raced at MCM before. They've had Aussie Racing Cars, Kuhmo V8s, modern Sports Sedans etc....

It'll be right
They cannot fit in 6 hours of racing plus an hour of practice /qualifying without losing other stuff.TransAm is one category that I know has been dropped.
If the Sunday race starts at 9 there goes half the day.
Looking at your modern categories Kuhmo's definitely fit in with the touring car history theme of the event,sports sedans are pretty retro in body shape and age of most cars and Aussie Racing Cars was a one off deal because it was the only way they could have a race in NSW that year.
It won't be fine because people will not pay $40 for 3-4 hours of historic racing.I am a fan of long distance production racing so I know what a turn off it is for most spectators.Betcha the crowd is down 50-75%
Alan52 is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Feb 2017, 22:36 (Ref:3714591)   #6
mayhem
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Aruba
On that Island in LOST.
Posts: 3,219
mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
How have the crowds been over the last few years? IMO they have already looked down from, say, 5 years ago?
mayhem is offline  
__________________
The Jerk Store rang...
Quote
Old 25 Feb 2017, 06:13 (Ref:3714617)   #7
Alan52
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Australia
Glenmore Park
Posts: 1,634
Alan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAlan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem View Post
How have the crowds been over the last few years? IMO they have already looked down from, say, 5 years ago?
The crowds fell off after the golden years of 2006-2008 mainly I suspect because the novelty factor had worn off.They took a big plunge in 2014 when there were no TCM races and a wet Sunday morning.Went up to 2012-13 levels in 2015 when TCM returned.Were only a bit below that number last year despite no TCM races.
Alan52 is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Feb 2017, 07:54 (Ref:3714627)   #8
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,396
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Last time I went was in 2011.

Perhaps a revamp of the concept, taking note of the Goodwood revival-style events?

i.e. historics only (Tin-top AND openwheelers), with the exception being TCM.
Umai Naa is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Feb 2017, 08:31 (Ref:3714636)   #9
D.R.T.
Veteran
 
D.R.T.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location:
Sydeny
Posts: 8,963
D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtpanorama View Post
Moving MCM from fathers day was a stupid idea, but this is the final nail in the coffin.
Their hand was kind of forced by the inclusion & scheduling of the August V8 race wasn't it?
D.R.T. is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Feb 2017, 08:35 (Ref:3714638)   #10
Alan52
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Australia
Glenmore Park
Posts: 1,634
Alan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAlan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
Last time I went was in 2011.

Perhaps a revamp of the concept, taking note of the Goodwood revival-style events?

i.e. historics only (Tin-top AND openwheelers), with the exception being TCM.
What makes Goodwood Festival work is the availability of a large number of historic F1's and Le Mans cars(and contemporary examples of same).Everything else is a bonus novelty.Australia hardly has access to the same pool of cars.Same sort of applies to the Revival .
These are not viable formats in Australia because the cars don't exist here in sufficient numbers.
Alan52 is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Feb 2017, 23:30 (Ref:3714738)   #11
one five five
Veteran
 
one five five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,260
one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan52 View Post
The crowds fell off after the golden years of 2006-2008 mainly I suspect because the novelty factor had worn off.They took a big plunge in 2014 when there were no TCM races and a wet Sunday morning.Went up to 2012-13 levels in 2015 when TCM returned.Were only a bit below that number last year despite no TCM races.
So if the crowds are falling off, whats the problem with trying something new?

It might even tempt a few of the drivers who are there for the MCM to compete in the race?

The likes of Group C/A & Group Na/b/c will be there, so the spirit of the event will still be there.

If it doesn't work, drop the idea for 2018?
one five five is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Feb 2017, 01:47 (Ref:3714759)   #12
Alan52
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Australia
Glenmore Park
Posts: 1,634
Alan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAlan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
So if the crowds are falling off, whats the problem with trying something new?

It might even tempt a few of the drivers who are there for the MCM to compete in the race?

The likes of Group C/A & Group Na/b/c will be there, so the spirit of the event will still be there.

If it doesn't work, drop the idea for 2018?
Trying something new is always a good idea but 6 hours of endurance racing for a butchers picnic combination of state level competitors is clearly nothing to do with what spectators want to see.Competitors either judging by the tiny response when this event was proposed for January.
There is no prospect of crowds ever returning to 2006-2008 levels particularly with TCM locked away on Supercars program .Even if they weren't those numbers aren't coming back.
Alan52 is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Mar 2017, 06:26 (Ref:3716977)   #13
paydirt
Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Sydney
Posts: 169
paydirt should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan52 View Post
Trying something new is always a good idea but 6 hours of endurance racing for a butchers picnic combination of state level competitors is clearly nothing to do with what spectators want to see.Competitors either judging by the tiny response when this event was proposed for January.
The interesting question will be....How many Production Car/Prodsports/Improved Production cars will still be in reasonable enough shape to be able to front-up on Sunday, after the previous days' punishment?
paydirt is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Mar 2017, 12:32 (Ref:3720159)   #14
David Towe
Veteran
 
David Towe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
England
Glenmore Park NSW
Posts: 1,279
David Towe should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
This is the story as I know it folks.
The ARDC was forced to move the event from Father's Day to keep it away from the re-scheduled V8s round. The Sunday morning half of the 6 hour is a 7.00 start from what I've been told. The ticket price is too high in my opinion too and I've told the ARDC of this for the last few years along with having to park miles away from the gate. Crowds are dropping dramatically, last year was the worst of the 10 years I've competed there. Chevron used to own, or part own the event but now are simply the media body employed by the ARDC for the event.
David Towe is offline  
__________________
"The past is knowledge, the present our mistake, the future we always leave too late" Paul Weller (The Style Coulcil)
Quote
Old 21 Mar 2017, 03:36 (Ref:3720347)   #15
275 GTB-4
Veteran
 
275 GTB-4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Australia
South of Sydney NSW, Australie
Posts: 3,499
275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
and yet...if you believe the probably very expensive spin doctors someone has been paying to promote the track...its all good!
275 GTB-4 is offline  
__________________
The good old days sure seem like a long time ago!!
Quote
Old 12 May 2017, 12:35 (Ref:3732987)   #16
one five five
Veteran
 
one five five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,260
one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
How about this for a wacky thought.

The Muscle Car Masters need rejuvenating according to some on here

The Virgin Australia Supercars Championship round at Sydney Motorsport Park has struggled for a crowd for over ten years.

Why not combine the two of them?

Run the event in it's current August date. Make is the Supercars Heritage event.

Have a Supercars race on Saturday arvo and Sunday arvo, bring back the Touring Car Masters, and have Group C/A, Group Na/b/c, Heritage Hot Laps, Master Blasts etc.. through the rest of the day as the support races. You can even keep the Production Car enduro, maybe run it just on the Saturday night though.

Supercars and the ARDC would have to work together and co-promote though....is that possible?
one five five is offline  
Quote
Old 12 May 2017, 12:57 (Ref:3732994)   #17
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Have a Supercars race on Saturday arvo and Sunday arvo, bring back the Touring Car Masters, and have Group C/A, Group Na/b/c, Heritage Hot Laps, Master Blasts etc.. through the rest of the day as the support races. You can even keep the Production Car enduro, maybe run it just on the Saturday night though.
I'd be for the event, but I think you have far too many classes to get through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Supercars and the ARDC would have to work together and co-promote though....is that possible?
Prior form isn't promising.
Mixer is online now  
Quote
Old 13 May 2017, 08:08 (Ref:3733137)   #18
David Towe
Veteran
 
David Towe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
England
Glenmore Park NSW
Posts: 1,279
David Towe should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Can you see Supercars agreeing to this and thereby admitting they need us to help them survive and not look desperate? Also all other categories that are used to high profile positioning at MCM would now be kicked to the back of Bourke which wouldn't make many of us very happy as we know Historic racing is healthier than Supercars is at the moment. Some might say that Supercars should almost be the support category not the rest of us.
David Towe is offline  
__________________
"The past is knowledge, the present our mistake, the future we always leave too late" Paul Weller (The Style Coulcil)
Quote
Old 13 May 2017, 10:33 (Ref:3733165)   #19
Alan52
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Australia
Glenmore Park
Posts: 1,634
Alan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAlan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Should happen in the same year as Supercars become part of the card at Phillip Island Historics helping them draw a crowd at another circuit where numbers at Supercar rounds have been on the low side for most of the past 20 years.
The big losers out of this would be the competitors in other classes at MCM and people who might want 2 meetings to attend.
Alan52 is offline  
Quote
Old 13 May 2017, 10:34 (Ref:3733168)   #20
fomoco
Veteran
 
fomoco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Australia
Bris Vages southside
Posts: 2,193
fomoco should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridfomoco should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
How about this for a wacky thought.

The Muscle Car Masters need rejuvenating according to some on here

The Virgin Australia Supercars Championship round at Sydney Motorsport Park has struggled for a crowd for over ten years.

Why not combine the two of them?

Run the event in it's current August date. Make is the Supercars Heritage event.

Have a Supercars race on Saturday arvo and Sunday arvo, bring back the Touring Car Masters, and have Group C/A, Group Na/b/c, Heritage Hot Laps, Master Blasts etc.. through the rest of the day as the support races. You can even keep the Production Car enduro, maybe run it just on the Saturday night though.

Supercars and the ARDC would have to work together and co-promote though....is that possible?
Careful, you will be locked up as radical, and designated as a rebel, and will come under the watch list of ppl against Supercars
The Cyber police will trace you and you will be banned from attending motorsport.

But agree with you
fomoco is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Oct 2017, 06:57 (Ref:3775799)   #21
one five five
Veteran
 
one five five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,260
one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Muscle Car Masters are on this weekend, I'm told the "6hrs of Sydney" isn't though?

Does that mean the Masters aren't destroyed afterall?
one five five is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Oct 2017, 08:40 (Ref:3775808)   #22
Alan52
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Australia
Glenmore Park
Posts: 1,634
Alan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAlan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Muscle Car Masters are on this weekend, I'm told the "6hrs of Sydney" isn't though?

Does that mean the Masters aren't destroyed afterall?
Apparently only 8 entries for 6 Hour.Replaced with 3 sprint races for state level production cars.
With TCM tied by contract to Supercars another retro class like Trans Am would be more suitable.Supposed to be 37 degrees in western Sydney this Sunday so not real encouraging for casual fans.
Alan52 is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Oct 2017, 00:59 (Ref:3776905)   #23
mayhem
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Aruba
On that Island in LOST.
Posts: 3,219
mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Obviously its not easy to judge from streaming, but the crowds looked to have stayed away in droves...
mayhem is offline  
__________________
The Jerk Store rang...
Quote
Old 28 Oct 2017, 01:01 (Ref:3776908)   #24
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem View Post
Obviously its not easy to judge from streaming, but the crowds looked to have stayed away in droves...
just asking as i have no real idea about the crowd, but did they ever turn up on Saturday morning?
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Oct 2017, 01:04 (Ref:3776910)   #25
mayhem
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Aruba
On that Island in LOST.
Posts: 3,219
mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Yeah, in the heyday of Fathers Day they did. Like I said, hard to judge from camera angles provided, but car parking on the hill at Turn 2/3/4 is pretty vacant.
mayhem is offline  
__________________
The Jerk Store rang...
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ARDC loses $600K on V8 round!!!!!!!!! Average Punter Australasian Touring Cars. 30 29 May 2013 17:58
Ardc Amscar hadlou Motorsport History 4 29 Apr 2012 08:46
Muscle Car Masters Group'C' Australasian Touring Cars. 202 15 Jan 2006 11:52
Freak Accident Destroys Cressey's New Car Vandas National & International Single Seaters 5 24 Mar 2002 13:56


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:56.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.