Audi LMP1 Discussion

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Minassian only broke some ribs last year. That is a lot less serious than a broken vertebrae! Bernhard could be paralyzed for all we know

Word was that he exited the car himself...so it surely can't be that bad, right?

[chernaudi]

Bad enough that he'll probably miss Spa, and maybe LM or worse depending on how bad the injury is and the recuperation time.

NASCAR driver Jeff Burton sustained a similar (but worse) injury that could've left him paralyzed from the waist down if the bone spurs cut too far into his spinal cord. I'm surprised that Jeff is still driving today, let alone competitively, because with a back or neck injury, you screw that stuff up, it will come back and bite you later in life, and in general, the older that you are when it happens, the possibly more of an effect it can have and potentially sooner.

In that regard, I'm surprised that Tom is still racing, because he almost broke his neck in that DTM incident in '07, and it took him almost 2 years to fully recover from that and it may've shortened his career, which is why after '09 he focused on Sportscar racing.

And it's clear that Audi probably know a lot more than we do or that they've told us so far. I think that with them waiting to do testing--learning of the extent of Timo's injuries and reporting it to the public and trying to figure out exactly what happened in the incident--is also a bit telling that Audi are at least taking this somewhat seriously to say the least.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Word was that he exited the car himself...so it surely can't be that bad, right?

I was just shocked that chernaudi compared the few broken ribs of Minassian with a possible vertebrae fracture.

The early reports that he got out of the car on his own power, do suggest that Bernhard's injury is not that bad...

Anyway, it is probably not such a deal if he misses Spa, because a normal WEC race (6 hours) can be done with two drivers. I doubt know whether Audi has a reserve driver for Le Mans.

[chernaudi]

And if it wasn't for the HANS device and other equipment, I don't think that Marc or Nic would be with us today, let alone racing competitively.

I think with the ACO taking away HP and causing teams to focus on corning speed, I think that the phrase "small incident" probably will be used less and less until the ACO trim that from the cars. Because with those speeds in the corners, there's probably not really such a thing as a "small incident".

And according to Dagys' last tweet, Audi are very reluctant to confirm that any of this happened, and are very reluctant to release details--they're probably waiting to confirm Timo's condition and figure out what caused that incident. Only thing that Audi has confirmed is that Timo was in an accident yesterday, that it was the only incident, but, of course, not much else.

If Timo isn't badly hurt, I do wonder what kind of kink that this may throw in Audi's plans. If they were endurance testing yesterday, they might have to scrap that and start over, and I do wonder if they have the option to rent Sebring for one more day (Friday), but it seems that this hinges on if Timo is OK and they can figure out what happened and if it's something that needs a serious fix.

[gwyllion]

Worst case this could mean the end of the whole test. For instance, this year Lotus suffered a suspension failure during the first F1 test in Barcelona and they had to re-enforce the tub to address the issue.

[chernaudi]

This depends on what caused the failure--what broke and where. If it was the front and it was a pickup point that pulled out, that means a tub modification. If the same happened at the rear, it means a gearbox modification. Either way, those aren't fixes that can be done at the track, and it has to cause questions for the other 2012 cars.

It was was a broken wishbone, it could be a bad batch of parts, and that too may put the remainder of the test in jeopardy, and they'll probably have to reschedule once a fix is found.

But if a tire let go due to a puncture, that's racing and that happens. Only thing with that is that Audi and about everyone else use a tire pressure warning system, so it had to be a very sudden failure. So I think that a suspension collapse is the likely cause. The issue is to find out if it was a freak failure, or a possible design or production issue.

And of course, it also depends on data (all the R18s in the test were probably heavily loaded with sensors) and possibly how much physical evidence survived the accident.

[Tim the Grey]

Speculation, that's all you have.
The car has crashed. Audi are examining data, and the car, to see what happened. When they know, they fix it, and carry on. Or forget it, as it was driver error, or tyre failure, or umpteen other causes.
But first, you FIND OUT.

Here's wishing Timo all the best for a swift, and full, recovery from whatever he's done.

[arakis]

It has to be something pretty serous to stop them from testing, which they did...I mean each day that the track is payd for and the cars are not running is a butload of cash

[chernaudi]

Just the fact to me that Audi has had all night to check things out and that they (as of 10:30 at least) where yet to take out to the track means that they're really looking things over. When you have a driver get injured in an accident and narrowly (it seems) escaped serious injury, you'd definenly want to make sure that it wasn't a major flaw with the car.

One thing that doesn't help is that guys like Dagys who are good sources on this type of matter haven't had much in the way of updates--Audi could be on track now, they could still be looking over things, or they could be getting ready to leave Sebring and try again another day. But just the lack of updates--both about Timo and what happened--is a bit disconcerting, though we have to trust that Audi know what they're doing. And Audi have traditionally been tight lipped on publicly announcing testing accidents, though this might change depending on Timo's medical status and a lot of media guys were at the track when this happened, though they have been tight lipped too.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by arakis

It has to be something pretty serous to stop them from testing, which they did...I mean each day that the track is payd for and the cars are not running is a butload of cash

That would indicate to me that they have no idea what caused it and don't want to put the other drivers at harm.

[Coopz21 x]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Speculation, that's all you have.
The car has crashed. Audi are examining data, and the car, to see what happened. When they know, they fix it, and carry on. Or forget it, as it was driver error, or tyre failure, or umpteen other causes.
But first, you FIND OUT.

Here's wishing Timo all the best for a swift, and full, recovery from whatever he's done.

Was about to post something like that, until Audi say, no one can guess and say they know or that it's a "likely cause" do you work for the Audi Sports Car team? no so no one knows...

Audi probably aren't testing because, yeah they just had a massive crash in one car so they will need to find out what causes it incase it occurs on another car...

[chernaudi]

We also have to remember that Audi had a successful test at Sebring in December, but it was of a different nature than this week's test. The Dec. test was an extended shakedown, this week was supposedly a focus on endurance testing.

But then again, this is why Audi tests so much and why they like to test at Sebring--if you can find a weak point on the car, you can fix it and not worry about it in a race. Audi have reportedly done one 30 hour endurance test with the e-tron before Sebring that went well, but Sebring is a different animal compared with most other tracks in the world. If your car can survive 12 Hours there, it should have few problems at Le Mans. If it can survive 24-30 hours there, it's unlikely that it will have any issues at Le Mans.

Hopefully, this is no major issue that will cause Audi a ton of issues as far as modifying the cars, but either way, better to find it now than at Spa or Le Mans.

And I found something concerning the old R18s at Sebring--there's a photo of the old gearbox casing on Mulsanne's Corner's facebook page, and on it, it had the car's serial number and race number, and also a notation of 36.0 kg. Was that a notation of ballast or something else?

And on the update front, about the only thing I've seen recently was on Fourtitude's Twitter, saying that they (not Audi) have left Sebring for home, and from them we'll have to wait for a report and photos because of a laptop meltdown.

Update: Audi Sport Twitter has confirmed that Timo was involved in an accident yesterday, and was sent to a hospital for observation. Dagys also has some more info from Audi that he's sorting though as I'm typing this.

[chernaudi]

Dagys Update at Speed.com: It seems that Audi have resumed testing, albeit with some delay (probably final precautionary checks), and have dubbed the issue with Timo's R18 as a freak incident. Good news is that Timo is in good condition, and is undergoing medical checks today before being released. No further updates on his condition as far as specifics, but it seems that he'll be OK.

Probably the best news from Audi in the last 18 hours. Car is probably trashed, or at least beyond repair at the track, but Timo's a lot harder to fix than a race car, as someone put it.

[gwyllion]

An extremely short video of the R18 ultra and e-tron quattro at Sebring:

[ronnie peterson]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

An extremely short video of the R18 ultra and e-tron quattro at Sebring:

I just hear the wind & drivetrain noise in this video. Is that because of the new hybrid system ?

[chernaudi]

1st car seems to be a 2011 car, and the other may've been the Ultra before Timo's off.

One of Highcroft's photos shows the #3 Audi from the 12 Hours testing with the Delta Wing yesterday as well.

Strange to see so few photos of the e-trons, but Fourtitude have had a laptop die on them and they have to get it fixed before we see their photos--hopefully now that the Audi accident stuff is cleared up and testing resumed, maybe we'll get to see the 2012 aero bits on the one e-tron that was running them from the sources that are still there, namely Quattroworld.

[gwyllion]

I paused the video and I believe that these are not hybrid R18s.

The first car is the #3 R18 TDI (2011), which raced in the 12 hours of Sebring and which is used as benchmark for the 2012 cars.
The second car is the #3 R18 Ultra (2012), which was spotted on Sunday in the paddock by quattroworld.com. This is the car that Bernhard destroyed.

[Pandamasque]

Guys when you mention 2011 cars do you realize that the cars that raced in Sebring have been considerably redesigned after last year, right? Maybe the tub is 2011, but even the cabin is different.

[gwyllion]

@Pandamasque: Just look that the video. The first car that passes by, is the #3 Audi R18 TDI that raced last week.

This car is also visible in the background of this picture of the DeltaWing taken yesterday:


This is exactly the same car that raced last year, only with smaller restrictor, lower turbo boost, smaller fuel tank, and 15 kg penalty ballast.

[TF110]

The lack of noise is astonishing. And people say hybrids are quiet! Well how quiet will the diesel hybrid be? Maybe GT guys can't hear them coming so they end up in incidents with them. I've always thought this could be a problem. I'm sure those bright lights will be useful though. I just wish they made more of a sound. They're serious looking machines, without the serious sound. Hope some pictures surface soon of the new cars.

[chernaudi]

And I do think that people overlook that--TK pointed that out in an interview last year after PLM. Why it took Audi so long to modify the interior of the car to improve things for the shorter drivers, especially as it would help with the 2012 cars, is beyond me, though that was probably why it took so long for the changes. The 2012 cars were the focus for Audi after LM '11, and it took a while before those changes trickled down as an R&D effort on the older cars to see how they'll work.

It seems that Audi ran the revised cockpit stuff at Zhuhai, as Allan and Tom had nowhere near the issues with traffic that they had most of the previous season, and ran up from much of the first half of the race until Jani rear-ended the Audi, which caused the electrical issues that caused their retirement.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

This is exactly the same car that raced last year, only with smaller restrictor, lower turbo boost, smaller fuel tank, and 15 kg penalty ballast.

Er... did Audi tactually race 'grandfathered' cars not compliant with latest BHH&BHF regs and poorer visibility? That is strange...

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Er... did Audi tactually race 'grandfathered' cars not compliant with latest BHH&BHF regs and poorer visibility? That is strange...

Yes they did. Last week the R18s raced without the fender holes and for that reason that had to run with 15 kg ballast.

The new R18 with fender holes, new monocoque and nose, updated engine, more weight saving, etc. will make its race debut in Spa.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Er... did Audi tactually race 'grandfathered' cars not compliant with latest BHH&BHF regs and poorer visibility? That is strange...

They did. The rules allowed an exception for Sebring with a weight penalty.

[Pandamasque]

Ok, I was wrong. But it kinda makes no sense. Why not put the new package through such a test in racing conditions especially when there's no competition?