Goodwood Revival 2013

[henk4]

Originally Posted by FastDB2s

The Aston Project car was driven by Gary Pearson, who I regard as semi professional, trying to match Martin Brundle's (a true professional) time in it IIRC

not quite, it was initially lsited to be driven by its owner, Wolfgang Friedrichs, together with David Clark. David was replaced by Simon Hadfield and the rest is history and what a history.

[john ruston]

It's amazing how good GT40's are in the rain these days.

Same gang have the GT 40 at Spa this weekend so no prizes which car will be quickest overall.

Simon Hadfield is head and shoulders above the drivers of the Lister so should have shown them a clear pair of heals.

Is the Martin Brundle the same bloke who threw the car at the bank last year?

All these historic superstars are over 50 so you don't expect them to be as good as they used to be.

[The SpeCTator]

Originally Posted by pomracer

Its simply a case of everyone driving within their and their cars limits.

And its got nothing to do with how much money you have, or don't have.

My own experience is one of attending almost all of the Revival meetings and driving in 4 of them. Somebody somewhere can look up all the records but my recollection is that of the half dozen or so really bad smashes in the TT that I can instantly recall 100% of them were where "professional" drivers were behind the wheel at the time and over cooked it....simple as that ...Not mentioning any names but think about the cobra race last year - green cobra hits red cobra off circuit at St Marys; or same red cobra year before; or silver cobra at Madgewick year before that; the red Iso ; the Aston project car; The grey E-Type, or going back even more years same grey Etype ( happened right in front of me, lost it at No name).............all 100% driver error , nobody else involved, and there was nobody else that the "Pro'" could blame.

An interesting list of incidents and maybe no coincidence that some of those drivers involved have not been invited back.
As for the grey E type at no name, Shaun Lynn is of the opinion that it was a breakage that caused the accident.

[FastDB2s]

Originally Posted by FastDB2s

The Aston Project car was driven by Gary Pearson, who I regard as semi professional, trying to match Martin Brundle's (a true professional) time in it IIRC

When it had the accident I mean

[john ruston]

The Garry Pearson post compared to Brundle.

What have you been smoking.

Trying to match Brundles time.BS.

[zefarelly]

That, as I've recently learnt, is a professional drivers excuse. and as my paddock neighbour pointed out, it smelt like the underside of his wellington boots.

Originally Posted by The SpeCTator

Shaun Lynn is of the opinion that it was a breakage that caused the accident.

[John Turner]

Catching up with a bit of stuff.

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

And congrats to the other winning tenther (well, son of one)- young Arthur!

Abslutely, and sorry I didn't remark on it earlier

Originally Posted by zefarelly

Thanks guys, its been a very stressful mixed few weeks and I'm mentally, physically, and financially knackered.

The Cortina is a mess, but repairable, I think the shell is still straight.

I'm still pretty angry, and I've not yet seen the in car footage or a replay, but it was utterly unnecessary and totally avoidable. Saloon car racing is a magnet for trouble.

Very understandable, Joe and yes saloon car racing of most periods seems to have been more of a contact sport than in other areas of motor racing

Originally Posted by TimD

Bear in mind that there might be more motivation than keeping dry in vacating early...

On the Saturday morning, the car parks were deliciously gloopy and I was having the devil's own job keeping an elderly automatic Mercedes in a straight line. And this was the moment when some spotty 'erbert in a tabard decided to step out into the path of the car in front in order to change the flow of traffic.

Car in front slewed sideways to miss him and gave me absolutely no route of escape - I only avoided it by slapping the Merc into reverse and sideslipping myself, startling the chap right behind me, and the chap directly behind him.

Seeing as the bloke I nearly hit was driving a genuine Coombs Jag Mk II, the one directly behind me was in a Speedwell Sprite, and the one behind him was a Mach 1 Mustang, you'll understand that there was much sharp inhaling of breath.

With that memory burned into my brain, I grudgingly abandoned Woodcote during the TT and set off for home.

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Welcome back Tim.

Agree with Peter, Tim, welcome back. Very erudite. I still have that bag of programmes from some years back now that we were going to do 'swapsies' with. Please PM me!

Originally Posted by one-two

I'd be curious to see some stats on contact. Is there more of it at Goodwood than in comparable racing elsewhere or less or roughly the same? Does it tend to involve the pros or the amateurs or is there no pattern? What, if any, sanctions are, or could be, applied? At a purely casual level, there were incidents in both parts of the touring car race.

Originally Posted by zefarelly

the pro - celebrity bit I'm struggling with at the moment, vastly differing talent, approach and attitudes.

Originally Posted by morninggents

If Zeff's second comment related to the wider aspect of pro/amateur driver abilities then I agree with him that there is cause for concern. The trouble is that some of the amateurs are incredibly good whilst others leave a lot to be desired. Same with the pros, unfortunately.

Can't give the stats but the impression I obtain, having been to hundreds of historic races is that Goodwood does have more contact. It is as you say a heady mix of pro, good and frankly bad amateurs and there is quite a lot of pretty aggressive gung ho driving because it is a special event at a track that has great historic associations and is (currently) only raced on once a year and is not hindered/improved (depending on your view) by the same safety constraints that we see at updated circuits.

Originally Posted by simon drabble

let us not forget the same problem exists in modern racing - as Anthony Davidson will testify after the 458 turned into him at last years Le Mans....

Yes, but Anthony himself was guilty of taking out a works Corvette just a few years ago at Le Mans

Originally Posted by FastDB2s

The Aston Project car was driven by Gary Pearson, who I regard as semi professional, trying to match Martin Brundle's (a true professional) time in it IIRC

Originally Posted by henk4

not quite, it was initially lsited to be driven by its owner, Wolfgang Friedrichs, together with David Clark. David was replaced by Simon Hadfield and the rest is history and what a history.

Originally Posted by FastDB2s

When it had the accident I mean

Yes, indeed; it was actually as long ago as 1999. Martin Brundle, who notwithstanding JRs comments below was undoubtedly one of the finest sports cars drivers post 1980 put 212 on pole and Gary, who let's face it is one of our best historic drivers pranged it in practice and he would be the first to admit that it wasn't his finest moment. With those two in it, the car was well capable of winning the TT but with the 'development' of some of the quicker cars, subsequently, I'd always thought that its chances of winning reduced year by year. Special circumstances this year brought together an amazing result in Aston's Centenary year.

Originally Posted by john ruston

Simon Hadfield is head and shoulders above the drivers of the Lister so should have shown them a clear pair of heals.

Is the Martin Brundle the same bloke who threw the car at the bank last year?

All these historic superstars are over 50 so you don't expect them to be as good as they used to be.

Simon, who is also, I believe over 50, is undoubtedly one of the very best of our drivers in historic cars but a tad harsh on Anthony Reid, who is himself a very fine driver. However, it is true to say that in dry conditions the Lister is now the quicker car along with several others on the grid. Remember 212 only started 8th and no way was Wolfgang going to try and stick with them at the start and he dropped back. Simon would tell you that I have bored him silly over the years extolling the merits of 212 but the fact is that he loves the car and on the fairly rare occasions he drives it he excels in it - hand and glove comes to mind. The car does not have the power to weight ratio of the other frontrunners but has adequate power which it delivers smoothly, is sure footed in the wet, like Simon himself, and was long geared. The pair of them, proved in those conditions to be the perfect combination.

[Nick JM]

[QUOTE=zefarelly;3304320]Thanks guys, its been a very stressful mixed few weeks and I'm mentally, physically, and financially knackered.


I'm still pretty angry, and I've not yet seen the in car footage or a replay, but it was utterly unnecessary and totally avoidable. Saloon car racing is a magnet for trouble.

Sorry for not posting at the "appropriate" time but having got back from Goodwood to a mountain of work I have only just logged on to the forum.

Joe I was standing at Lavant corner and saw the whole thing. Don't know if you have seen the footage (or, if you have, whether it shows what happened) but I have to say that in my (limited) experience Frenchie left Derek nowhere to go - having said that i am not sure the overtaking shortly before hand was entirely proper as it upset the balance of the cars behind whis is what prompted it

[Nick JM]

Originally Posted by Midgetman

In modern sports car racing you have to qualify for a licence or at least be "time served" to race with the big boys whereas in Historics you can buy your International licence after a handful of races round Brands Hatch Club or Mallory Park. While it's good for us impecunious but experienced racers there is a big jump between 8 laps at Mallory and 20 minutes with Kristenson, Alesi et al.

I couldn't presume to jump into a Cobra or old F1 car and circulate at safe speed, many of the guys at the back of the field were no better than me just richer!

Equally, maybe the superstars need to remember that these are not all professional drivers and have to leave a margin for (other people's) errors.

Second all of that. There really ought to be an enhanced ARDS type of test before being allowed to drive powerful historics and I totally agree the difference between 20 laps at Mallory and attending SPA.

As for the last paragraph I could not have put it better

[simon drabble]

I think there is one other factor - a modern driver is used to a car that corners and brakes.... dunlops in the wet are a very different kettle of fish

[Peter Mallett]

This may be a daft question, but allowing for the fate that befell Zef's car, thus it would obviously be a prominent subject for discussion, were there more accidents at Goodwood this year compared to previous years?

[Nick JM]

There seemed to be more drama this year than at the last two or three I have been to - however it may be that it was just my (mis?) fortune to have pretty much every piece of action happen right in front of me.

One accident which has not been mentioned on here is that which befell the mini just before Derek had the ding in Joe's car. The nearside fornt wheel complete with bits of hub and shaft came adrift at Lavant corner, bounced over the kitty litter, over the trye wall and was only stopped from going into the crowds by sheer fluke. It eventually hit the top of the "stock fence" where the crowds were leaning, bounced high into the air and somehow found itself back on the grass.

The whole thing seemed to happen in slow motion and I was utterly convinced there was going to be a spectator death. At the speed it was travelling it wodl have taken someone's head off.

This was never shown on any replay - possibly because if a big drama was made out of it those nice people at health and safety would decree we would have to watch the Revival though Silverstonesque 30 ft fence...maybe I ought to shut up and stop going on about it then before it catches someone's eye

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

This may be a daft question, but allowing for the fate that befell Zef's car, thus it would obviously be a prominent subject for discussion, were there more accidents at Goodwood this year compared to previous years?

Offhand:

The Auriana Maserati broke its steering and went strait on into the barrier,
Nick Minassian who confessed to me earlier that he did not like the rain, did something to the Caron Cobra in the rain.
Rick Hall was involved in an accident but the damage looked minor (from the screen)
John Ure's Cooper Bristol was involved in something during practice (can't remember where), but carried on for the race
Perhaps there is more, and of course there were abundant tete-a-queues, but I have actually not seen many damaged cars being brought back on the flatbed.
So without downplaying Zeff's car incident I think the actual number of serious debris was quite limited

[delta]

All this doom and gloom about driving standards so I thought I would cheer you all up with a picture of me in the Lotus 18 at Goodwood.At this point I am trying to select 4th which I did then the CWP started vibrating. Dipped the clutch and rolled too a halt at post 8 and had a chat to my marshall friends for the rest of the race.

[Peter Mallett]

Yes that was why I asked the question. Good pic. Perhaps you'll get Not her invite next year?

[john ruston]

Not doom and gloom just discussing what happened or is that supposed to be swept under carpet?

Good old British middle class stuff

One of your mates on here has had GBH of the wallet but let's dismiss it.

This is not a problem with Goodwood just some of the jerks driving cars

[bauble]

Originally Posted by henk4

Offhand:

The Auriana Maserati broke its steering and went strait on into the barrier,
Nick Minassian who confessed to me earlier that he did not like the rain, did something to the Caron Cobra in the rain.
Rick Hall was involved in an accident but the damage looked minor (from the screen)
John Ure's Cooper Bristol was involved in something during practice (can't remember where), but carried on for the race
Perhaps there is more, and of course there were abundant tete-a-queues, but I have actually not seen many damaged cars being brought back on the flatbed.
So without downplaying Zeff's car incident I think the actual number of serious debris was quite limited

With regard to the dent in the Lotus 10 of Malcolm Paul mentioned above, it was actually Malcolm at the wheel when it happened.
I was looking at the damage on Saturday when a smart looking young chap came and asked, in foreign accent, if I was the owner of the car, I explained I was not but did know the owner. He then said he was the driver of the HWM Alta Jag that had caused the damage, and wished to apologise for the incident. Unfortunately we could not find Malcolm at the time and he said he would not be around on Sunday, so I gave him my e-mail address and he has since contacted me for the owners details, and also sent a follow up to thank me for my efforts.

The man in question was Nicolas Bert, and when I advised Malcolm and his crew about his concerns they were all in praise of the thoughtful gesture.

So mistakes will occur, but it is nice to see good manners can prevail.

A small counterbalance to the 'driving standards' discussion.

I will post picture on my usual site soon.

Failed to meet any other tenner (or is that tenor?), but Delta did scurry past on Friday.

bauble.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Good old British middle class stuff

Well seeing as there are only a couple of you middle class merchants on here, I guess its your fault then.

[delta]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Yes that was why I asked the question. Good pic. Perhaps you'll get Not her invite next year?

Pic from our very own Spectator "Chris". Cant see the starter motor flying off..
Off too Aunguleme . Cheers

[john ruston]

Mr Mallet

That is ultimate insult to an inverted snob

Well done!

[simon drabble]

Mallet hits nail on head..

[John Turner]

As possibly the only lower class (financially anyway) poster, I'm reminded of the great TW3 sketch - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2k1iRD2f-c, so I know my place!

JR incidentally would be the first to admit that his posts have a tendency to abbreviate things; thus some of what he says is sarcastic and means the opposite to what he is saying!

[zefarelly]

general chatter in the paupers paddock was that young and old pro's don't like vague steering, locking or not locking brakes, loose front or rear ends etc etc . .ie 50 year old saloon cars in the wet, or dry

from what I have seen thus far its a 50/50 accident and no amount of chatter will fix it so I'll just get on with it, no one else will!

here's something more cheerful. He enjoyed his birthday and within an hour wanted to go home to build his new LEGO. totally unfazed by it all. which is a good thing, he's too young to be bitter and tainted like the rest of us.

[p261brm]

So Rick had an off, who is going to fix it? An educated guess says Rick, not Mr Waring,and I don't think anyone would accuse Rick of not being competant. Why should Goodwood be bought to task more than anywhere else? Some of the driving standards are abysmal, even more so than say the Classic/Gold Cup etc? Red Mist will allways prevail, the big problem in my opinion is cars built to a period spec, being modified to later specification without the chassis/tub being modified to take the additional stress/strain, unless it is a Newey interpretation. Some cars are just not capable, in period spec of beating a similar age period car, no matter who is behind the wheel, and when terminal velocity/capabllity is reached, as one driver put to me, hands off the wheel tuck yourself down as far as one can...........and wait.

[delta]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

general chatter in the paupers paddock was that young and old pro's don't like vague steering, locking or not locking brakes, loose front or rear ends etc etc . .ie 50 year old saloon cars in the wet, or dry

from what I have seen thus far its a 50/50 accident and no amount of chatter will fix it so I'll just get on with it, no one else will!

here's something more cheerful. He enjoyed his birthday and within an hour wanted to go home to build his new LEGO. totally unfazed by it all. which is a good thing, he's too young to be bitter and tainted like the rest of us.

Yep when I congratulated him i think he was more interested in the cake he was stuffing.Once again well done Arther.