Michael's at his best when he's behind the opposition

Yoong Montoya · 13 Jun 2002, 19:53 (Ref:312986)

We saw this in 1997 and 1998 when he had an inferior car yet still managed to take the championship down to the last race. He could also put in some great drives from down the grid to win. Unfortunately he lost in 1997 due to the crash with Villeneuve and he lost in 1998 due to a tyre blow out while leading. I rekon that these two years saw Michael at his best, as he came within an ace of championship glory in an inferior car in both years.

Mr V · 13 Jun 2002, 19:55 (Ref:312988)

Quote:

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya
he lost in 1998 due to a tyre blow out while leading.

don't mean to pick holes here YM, but he wasn't leading, he was in 3rd place when the tyre went.

paul-collins · 13 Jun 2002, 20:39 (Ref:313038)

Quote:

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya
Unfortunately he lost in 1997 due to the crash with Villeneuve...

Well, actually, he lost in 1997 because he was passed cleanly by Villeneuve. He then tried to crash JV out but JV had protected himself against just such a move (I wonder where he got the idea TGF might do that?).

Had the crash worked, he would have ended the season with one point more than JV - although the FIA would still have stripped him of the title.

kwd · 13 Jun 2002, 20:52 (Ref:313055)

dont know paul the fia didnt strip senna for his altercation with prost

paul-collins · 13 Jun 2002, 21:08 (Ref:313078)

Well, they did strip him of all his points for second. If the crash was exactly the same, but he had've taken out JV, are you saying the FIA would behave differently?

Oh, wait, I see your point.

**Bononi** · 13 Jun 2002, 21:10 (Ref:313081)

Quote:

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya
Unfortunately he lost in 1997 due to the crash with Villeneuve and ...

Unfortunately ?

I'm not sure we watched the same race...

Yoong Montoya · 13 Jun 2002, 21:23 (Ref:313096)

What I mean is, he came close to winning the championship in 97 and 98, but lost in 97 due to trying to smash Villeneuve out, and lost in 98 through tyre failure, both of these happening in the last race in both years.

Raven · 14 Jun 2002, 00:25 (Ref:313176)

He would've lost 98 even if he won Suzuka, Mika finishing 2nd would've been enough for the title.

BBKing · 14 Jun 2002, 00:40 (Ref:313181)

Inferior cars.....LOL

f1manoz · 14 Jun 2002, 00:53 (Ref:313186)

Mika would have won the 1998 World Championship TGF finishing or not. He drove the better race (and better season).

Gt_R · 14 Jun 2002, 01:11 (Ref:313196)

Considering how everybody goes about saying JPM have an inferior car this year, yes BBK, i do think Michael had the inferior car in 98, thank you. Surely you did not forget the first races?? Surely you did not forget how throughout the season Ferrari worked like mad, but still end up with a car about half a second slower...and had to use "insane" strategies to out-fox mclaren for wins? Perhaps we can see where Ralf/JPM would be at the end of this season?

Mika is a worthy champion in 98, no doubt about it. He drove well in the best car to win and its well deserved. Still, Michael impressed with his abilities to put on a strong fight even with the odds against him. Critics say anybody could have done what Michael had done...but we don't really see it, do we?

P.S his Suzuka 98 drive is one hell of an impressive one... many would have just given up and gone home...he almost made things happen.

freud · 14 Jun 2002, 01:55 (Ref:313213)

Quote:

Originally posted by f1manoz
Mika would have won the 1998 World Championship TGF finishing or not. He drove the better race (and better season).

YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESY ESYESYESYESYESYESYES

1997 and 1998... Comparatively Ferrari werent as inferior those years as Mclarens & Williams in 2000, 2001 and 2002. Ferrari's rivals have worst record of 'reliability'. I wont take anything away from Michael though as I think he drove well both years... probably his finest in his career.

Jordi · 14 Jun 2002, 10:06 (Ref:313372)

If your car is half a second slower but finisges 99% of the race while the "better" car finishes only 70%, I think that equals the performace a bit

drexel · 14 Jun 2002, 16:25 (Ref:313658)

Quote:

1997 and 1998... Comparatively Ferrari werent as inferior those years as Mclarens & Williams in 2000,

Yeah Mclarens were so far off the pace in 00...so much so that it was regarded the best car that year by many.

And in 97, the Williams was so inferior that Patrick Head yelled at Villeneuve "You're costing us the championship"

freud · 14 Jun 2002, 18:00 (Ref:313732)

Quote:

Originally posted by drexel

Yeah Mclarens were so far off the pace in 00...so much so that it was regarded the best car that year by many.

That's sopposed to be a joke, right???

Mr V · 14 Jun 2002, 20:40 (Ref:313886)

Quote:

Originally posted by drexel

Yeah Mclarens were so far off the pace in 00...so much so that it was regarded the best car that year by many.

maybe by the guys at Ferrari? (publicly anyway) No matter how much talent any driver has, tell me the last time that a guy has won a WDC in a car that wasn't the best of the year! (and Yes, the '94 car of Benetton was better than the Williams!)

DNQ · 14 Jun 2002, 23:49 (Ref:314071)

I believe there are too many people who use the old cliche 'Ferrari had the lesser car in 1999-2000' - that is thourougly incorrect, in 1999, it was marginal, and in 2000, the Ferrari was better, almost certainly.

J.McClane · 15 Jun 2002, 02:00 (Ref:314110)

"Michael's at his best when he's behind the opposition "

Well that is sort of true, when he is behind his "team mate" he knows he won't have to challange for that position.

Jukebox · 15 Jun 2002, 02:17 (Ref:314117)

Quote:

Originally posted by J.McClane
when he is behind his "team mate" he knows he won't have to challange for that position.

That is what we call teamwork and for an organization that have goals to achieve, all team members have to understand why and work together to achieve those goals.

freud · 15 Jun 2002, 02:21 (Ref:314119)

an organization that have goals to achieve

All organizations, from Ferrari to Ford, have goals to achieve. Without goals there wouldnt be any organization.

Jukebox · 15 Jun 2002, 02:25 (Ref:314123)

You finally amazes me by being right and we agreeing on something..

and the Ferrari F1 organization's goal are to ensure that they secures the WCC and WDC at all cost asap

freud · 15 Jun 2002, 02:36 (Ref:314127)

Juke, lets not forget that F1 is not just money and capitalism. Its also a sport! There is a code of ethics behind every sports. There is a concept of sportsmanship. Money was the main factor in 1992 also when Williams built a very dominant car. But they never indulged in the kind of sheer manipulation that Ferrari has over past few years. As Eddie Irvine said that 'quantity' doesnt matter now but the 'quality'. People will love them if they let their drivers race each other... More the people love them, more their merchandise, car sales, etc etc...

Ferrari need to rethink their 'goals'... The goal shouldnt be "A TGF win by all cost"... It should be "A Ferrari win by all cost, whether TGF or RB".

Think about it, Juke.

Jukebox · 15 Jun 2002, 02:49 (Ref:314131)

You are right about having spirit of sportsmanships in any sports but you must understand the situation they are in right now.

They needed the WDC and WCC the most this year and fast as they are going to float their company and by including wins in their prospectus makes it more interesting or attractive for prospective investors.

I invest heavily in stocks sigmund (you mind me calling u that?) and apart from the advices i get form my remisier, i also do my own research and one of the main item in my research is to refer the company's prospectus.

They can't win everyone's heart and they are not in the service industry by the way. If they opted to be the darlings in the sport, they can but they will in the process jeapordise the company's future.

calais · 15 Jun 2002, 02:58 (Ref:314132)

Quote:

Originally posted by Jukebox
You finally amazes me by being right and we agreeing on something.. and the Ferrari F1 organization's goal are to ensure that they secures the WCC and WDC at all cost asap

at all costs, jukebox????

Jukebox · 15 Jun 2002, 03:01 (Ref:314133)

team orders calais....not the conspiracy theories you guys diligently came out with all the time

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