JPm/MS 1st lap who was to blame? (merged)

[ralf fan]

Jpm blams Ms and thinks he should get a penalty! MS could care less! frustrated JPM?

[Knowlesy]

It looked bad from the outside, but onboard with Michael it looked pretty harmless to be honest. He didn't swerve or anything, just held his line.

[gttouring]

freaking racing- if you want a space and rubb tyres it happens, Montoya didn't have the best line in the corner and tried to hold on. He is a bit of a complainer isn't he?
is it because the Wlarus is not yet the Forza beater they had thought? or that he is Goin to MacLAren next year and they STINK now?! ha ha sour grapes and bitterness for Montoya

[jj2728]

montoya just can't come to grips with ms....

[Gt_R]

Definetly not Michael's from what i've seen from the footages and repeats.. MS just held his line in the tight corner and Montoya tried to go from the outside..normal racing and an ambitious move that didn't quite succeed...no faults of any driver IMO.

[Fish_Flake]

When attempting to overtake another driver, Montoya gives the other driver room to work with. This is something that neither Schumacher has ever done. When either Ralf or Michael makes a pass, he cuts off the other driver, and this often leads to an incident, as it did today for Ralf. Furthermore, Michael Schumacher always tries to run the other driver off the track when he is passed for position. It is extremely unsportsmanlike, and he should have been penalized for these habits long ago. But he's Michael Schumacher, and no one is going to stop him now.

[DavidStHubbins]

Maybe I will stay up another HOUR to watch the race now, didn't hear about this!

[Gt_R]

Did Montoya really complain? I didn't hear from him (yet) and i'd be quite surprised if he do..

[Damon]

It wasn't particularly sporting but it's what you've got to expect from Michael.

[Gt_R]

Fish, in this situation, i believe it is VERY unfair what you had criticised. There is really no way else MS could have gone and honestly, the move is a little to ambitious..

[Kicking-back]

It was a nothing incident. Hard but fair.

[Gt_R]

Ahhh...i can see it coming.. oh well

JPM overtakes MS - JPM fans jump and boast how great a racer their boy is.

JPM fails to overtake MS - MS's fault for not letting him past..it's dirty.. ahhh.....

[ralf fan]

Originally posted by Gt_R
Did Montoya really complain? I didn't hear from him (yet) and i'd be quite surprised if he do..

in the press conference he said he was DISAPPOINTED with Ms's 'racing'...

i think it really was JPM being frustrated with the WIlliams pace.... even if he got past MS i dont think it would have made a difference MS would have won one way or anpther

[Damon]

Originally posted by Fish_Flake
When attempting to overtake another driver, Montoya gives the other driver room to work with. This is something that neither Schumacher has ever done.

A good example in a virtually identical situation would be the first lap of Monza last year. JPM had the racing line on the way out and (according to the Schu fans) could feasably have forces Schu on to the gravel. In that situation though JPM accepted the tighter line on the way out and allowed Michael to stay on the circuit.

[freud]

Originally posted by Gt_R
Ahhh...i can see it coming.. oh well

JPM overtakes MS - JPM fans jump and boast how great a racer their boy is.

JPM fails to overtake MS - MS's fault for not letting him past..it's dirty.. ahhh.....

FLAME BAIT.

[Damon]

Yes, very nice 'mightier than thou' post there Gt_R.

[Gt_R]

What is there to be "disappointed" other than he failed to succeed, because frankly, there's absolutely nothing wrong with Michael's defense but hard yet pretty fair racing...what does he expect? MS compromise his own race to gift JPM the place...is that what he and his fans want?

[Gt_R]

Ok..i admit the "ahhh" thread as a bit of a post out of frustration. Still can't believe that everytime a MS/JPM incident where JPM come out worse..people complain abt MS.

[Damon]

There's "gifting a place" and showing a bit of sporting conduct. No one want to see a driver move over and wave the other guy through and that isn't the point that's being made here.

[AndyM]

What about the JPM vs RS incident a few seconds later? JPM deliberatly moved over to block RS, putting him on the grass. MS's move is was nothing, he just held his line.

As a JPM fan I am dissapointed after today...

[Fish_Flake]

Originally posted by Gt_R
Fish, in this situation, i believe it is VERY unfair what you had criticised. There is really no way else MS could have gone and honestly, the move is a little to ambitious..

You're right. It was an ambitious move. Even if Schumacher would have given him room, Montoya still likely would not have made the pass. If the roles were reversed, I'd be criticizing Montoya for pushing Schumacher off the track. I do not appreciate unduly aggressive driving tactics from any driver. Montoya made a clean, fair move. Lofty, but fair.

[Knowlesy]

I find Michaels moves as dubious as the next guy, but today wasn't really unfair. Maybe a different camera angle would change my mind.

From the front view of the altercation, it looks dubious but you can't really apportion blame. From Schumachers on-board camera it seems Schuey just held his normal line. JPM wasn't even visible, so it's hard to say.

If someone sees an overhead shot or a JPM on-board shot, let us know your verdict!

[Gt_R]

Ok, i'd take out the emotions of the argument, and say it's driver A (in MS's shoes) vs driver B (in Montoya's shoes)...irregardless of who's the driver is. And i see nothing more than a racing incident. In fact, it isnt even an incident..just B taking a chance and it didn't pay off.. simple as that...

to drag things such as "sporting conduct" into discussion is kind of exaggerating things. Michael DID not make a wider turn, did not turn into JPM. Instead of putting the blame of MS, can't anybody see that the move JPM make is slightly over-ambitious?

[Phoenix1]

Looking at both incidents at the corner, JPM/MS and RS/FA I would say MS and FA where at fault. The difference for me is that in thse case of MS, JPM was alongside going into the corner whereas FA was not along side RS when the contact took place. I am shocked the stewards did not talk a look at the incident and will be disappointed if the FIA, as JPM stated in the press conference, do not take a look at the incident.

Last race I said Ralf was at fault for not giving Sato room and now I say Michael and Alonso are at fault. There needs to be more respect in general for each other, you do not have to like the other driver but you should be a gentlemen.

[Damon]

Montoya's front wing is just visable alongside Schu's front wheel as Schu takes to the kerb. I just checked the tape.