JPm/MS 1st lap who was to blame? (merged)

[Gt_R]

And i didn't even mention JPM's swerve onto Ralf's line and cause Ralf to take evasive actions... i mean, accept the fact that hard racing works both ways, for and against a driver.

[Gt_R]

Yepp, i watched MS's view on board (at the air box) and we saw JPM's front wings next to MS's front wheel...now..imagine what's the odds that MS saw that?

[Spritle]

Juan needs to change his name to Juan Pablum Montoya, (pablum as in baby food), as he constantly complains about everyone's moves but his own. First it was Webber, then Ralph.

Next year it will be the backmarkers when he's driving the Mac from P12. He should realize he's doing an incredible job in inferior equipment and just get on with it and accept that he isn't going to win in that car right now.

[f1grandprixshop]

JPM loves to whine. just look at the cars behind them, they all passed the line MS passed, so should MS give way to JPM for him to passed? i don't think so.

[Knowlesy]

Yeah, you're right, you can see his wing. Hmmm....well....there was no swerve or anything, but Michael could have left more room I guess.

[Damon]

F1GP, are you saying a driver has a right to take whatever line he chooses regardless of anyone else around them?!

[Gt_R]

I'd give JPM and his fans his due respect and won't call him a "whiner" just yet. I mean, if you read my first post, i didn't even blame JPM for his over-ambitious move. I still hold my stand that it's just a racing incident and nothing more...nobody's fault..definetly not MS's. Hard racing from 2 tough racers.

[f1grandprixshop]

Originally posted by Damon
F1GP, are you saying a driver has a right to take whatever line he chooses regardless of anyone else around them?!

huh? i'm saying MS didn't close the door on JPM, he was on racing line, just like the other cars behind him, except for JPM. so, should Ms move away from racing line to give way to JPM?

[Damon]

Well JPM was on the same bit of circuit that Michael seemed really quite keen on having before he was forcably shoved off it. As the various camera angles will atest, JPM was alongside as Michael took to the kerb, not behind. "Closing the door" on someone 3/4 of a car length behind is totally fair enough but when someone is 90% alongside, imo, it is not.

[Edit]And just to flag it, this isn't a post based on which driver I do / do not support, quite the opposite. I don't follow a driver blindly, I admire a driver for the way they conduct themselves on circuit and it's situations like today that are why I'm a fan of JPM and not of Schu. Were the characteristics of the drivers reversed I'd be a Schumacher fan.[/Edit]

[f1grandprixshop]

Yup, it is not. and besides, don't you think thats a bit to ambitious of JPm to overtake from that corner? has anyone overtook anyone there??

[Damon]

Originally posted by f1grandprixshop
Yup, it is not. and besides, don't you think thats a bit to ambitious of JPm to overtake from that corner? has anyone overtook anyone there??

As my edit above will tell you, that's why I support JPM, at least he'll have a go at it.

[Gt_R]

Damon, honestly, Michael DID NOT close the door..please can't you see, JPM CAN'T expect any move he makes, irregardless of how ambitious they are, to succeed.

If i recall correctly, JPM's the one who told MS at a certain Austrian 2001 incident (despite being JPM who screwed up) that if MS thinks he's given a right to pass people and people give way, then MS is wrong. Well, obviously JPM doesn't seem happy whenever he can't pass.

Frankly, it's really too ambitious a move. Any god damn driver can brake really (too) late and get 90% alongside the driver in front into a corner..that doesn't give that driver a god damn right to pass.

[f1atic]

VERY BAD FORM Juan!
If you put yourself on the outside in a turn and the other driver races - accelerating from the apex - his natural line will put you off the track if you insist on staying beside him.

To even suggest that the FIA would be investigating the incident during the press conference demonstrates once more that JPM is not WDC material. He came across as an impatient, whining little boy who believes everyone should bow to him and certainly get out of his way.

[Knowlesy]

Are the FIA gonna be looking at this or will it be totally ignored? Unlike that petty little Alonso/Rafe incident.

[Gt_R]

You see Damon, i agree with you that one thing i like about JPM is because he takes risk/chances..ambitious or not...but the thing is, taking risk and chances means that as high a chance he has of succeeding, he has an equal risk to fail and come off worse. The move from the outside is ambitious and JPM braked really late that allowed him to "get alongside". If MS ran wide into JPM, it'd be a different story. But the thing is MS did nothing but hold his line defending his position, and i couldn't imagine anybody could fault him for that. What about JPM on Ralf?

[f1grandprixshop]

Originally posted by Damon
As my edit above will tell you, that's why I support JPM, at least he'll have a go at it.

JPM having a go at it any place in the circuit is good for F1, but having a go at it, didn't make it, and complaining after the race isn't. Drive more and talk less is the key to winning F1 i guess.

[ralf fan]

Seeing it again MS had the racing line and JPM going on the outside of MS had really no chance to overtake MS and you cant expect MS to leave the door open when MS had the line.

[ralf fan]

Originally posted by knowlesy
Are the FIA gonna be looking at this or will it be totally ignored? Unlike that petty little Alonso/Rafe incident.

Petty incident? this one was more serious at it atleast cost one of the drivers 3 pts. whereas JPM would have finished 3rd one way or another!

[freud]

Originally posted by Damon
Well JPM was on the same bit of circuit that Michael seemed really quite keen on having before he was forcably shoved off it. As the various camera angles will atest, JPM was alongside as Michael took to the kerb, not behind. "Closing the door" on someone 3/4 of a car length behind is totally fair enough but when someone is 90% alongside, imo, it is not.

You are compltely right, Damon. Infact it was not just closing the door. It was almost 'banging'. Now I am not entirely sure if Michael, infact, did slightly touch the right front tyre of his to JPM's car. Though looking at the incident on my digital f1 feed, I can clearly see Michael's hand turning the steering towards right as if he is trying to push JPM off the track. At that speed it was an act of dangerous driving.

Btw I do think that MS has the right to protect his position and I appreciate his hard driving. Afterall he is not obliged to just let JPM through. Perhaps JPM was a bit too harsh in the press conference. Though I can see why he is complaining. He is basically saying that while other so called mortals are not exempt from FIA's wrath, Michael can pretty much do as he like. I must say, I am with JPM there.

[Gt_R]

Anyway, talking about "sporting conduct", i've just watched the post-race interview and i must say i'm very disappointed with the way JPM conducted himself in the press.

He may talk his talk..but my advice is he ought to watch the tapes before thinking others are unfair. And well, he admitted "closing the door" on Ralf... so i wonder what's his fans gotta say. Didn't Head complain that FIA ought to investigate MS on Alonso incident at Silverstone...how about this one? *firmly tongue in cheek*

[Knowlesy]

Originally posted by ralf fan
Petty incident? this one was more serious at it atleast cost one of the drivers 3 pts. whereas JPM would have finished 3rd one way or another!

The day the FIA judges incidents on points lost rather than ethics and level of danger is the day I finally lose faith in the sports governing body.

[RWC]

Haven't seen the incident yet but basically f1 has a huge problem setting out clear rules for cornering.

The way it's been for YEARS is that anyone who bullies their way through a corner >and doesn't cause an incident< (i.e because the other driver backs off)-gets away with it every time.
The whole thing stinks

[ralf fan]

Originally posted by knowlesy
The day the FIA judges incidents on points lost rather than ethics and level of danger is the day I finally lose faith in the sports governing body.

the way this year is panning out i am already beginning to lose faith...

[Gt_R]

i don't think FIA should judge incidents based on points lost, but the thing is if FIA investigates the MS incident..i think they might as well stop F1 for good.

[Damon]

It's simply a matter that Schu again displayed a style of defensive driving that I don't respect. My devotion to F1 came from watching the epic Mansell / Senna battles of the late '80's and early '90's. Then you had drivers quite willing to allow enough room for each other within the boundries of the race track in the inside, the outside, wherever their competitors car happened to be. This wasn't "bowing down" or "gifting the corner" it was genuinely tough but fair racing with drivers capable of showing an ounce of respect for one another. As it seems my example of Monza just a few months ago was glossed over I'll repeat it. JPM had the same line and lead as Schu did in that instance and could have shoved him on to the gravel to take the place. Instead he allowed Schu enough room to remain on the track and was unable to gain the position as a result. It's a shame the same courtesy was not returned when the roles were reversed.

F1atic, get over it. How on earth do a few words spouted out of frustation at a press conference deminish a drivers ability to win races?!