Mondello 2nd July

[Tiddles]

Did anyone watch the supercar race in Mondello on Sunday, the second race in particular!!!!

Anybody got an opinion on what happened under the bridge that put Michael Halvey off, and wrecked Ciaran Sands Car!!!

Also what happened to John Whelan!!

Cheers.............

[EvilPumpkin]

Didn't see the incident so can't comment - however, Mr. Sands left a sizeable portion of his car behind my post! Unfortunately, there really wasn't time to get down and remove the bodywork from the track as I would have had to leave the flagpost (which is something we never do).

The supercar races were certainly....fraught!

They're always exciting to watch, but I think we still have a long way to go in terms of driving standards. A bit of rubbin' may be racin', but the amount of damage the cars seem to suffer in every race seems to be excessive. I just worry that one of these days, someone is going to get hurt.

[Tiddles]

I believe Ciaran did damage to his big thumb, during the "incident" that happened on track!!!

Driving standards need to be controlled, which would mean that you need someone capable in the control tower.

The second race was a disgrace...... After 1st race, two officals came n had a drivers briefing, said that any contact on the track would not be tolerated. Drivers would be black flagged and then questions asked later, that anyone pushing on track would not be allowed. Two drivers got pushed out of the race and no-one got the black flag for either incident. No penalties handed out.

It's back to one of the old arguements, of non-registered drivers competing in championship races..... After Sunday's antic's two registered Supercar drivers say they are hanging up their boots unless things change!!

Who Police the Police!!!!!

[EvilPumpkin]

Well I know that reports were put in on the majority of incidents in all races on Sunday. What happened to them, I have no idea.

There was one black flag IIRC - didn't Mr. Leonard get black flagged in Race 1?

As for the hanging up their boots, we hear this every single year. The SC drivers are a nice bunch of guys, but the second they get out on the track, they turn into ravening maniacs for some reason. And it's not just one or two - I can give you any number of names that I've either reported or seriously considered reporting over the years - and they're all still racing.

The problem is that they're all well-behaved until one of them starts it. Then they want revenge. In getting revenge, they tip some other poor innocent who wasn't involved and then all hell breaks loose!

I wonder how much of it is actually to do with the width of the first corner at Mondello. The majority of problems start there on the first lap - problems that we don't seem to have at Kirkistown. The problem with the first corner at Mondello is that there's really nowhere to go if you get squeezed out - except into the gravel. At Kirky, there's plenty of grass on either side. So less door bashing, less problems and a much cleaner race because no-one has the red mist going.

Just a theory.......

[Tiddles]

First corner had nothing to do with the weekend. Squeezing started coming off the line and down the straight. One car didnt even make it to the 100 metre mark!!!!!

Sqeezing off the line isnt meant to be allowed. One driver got done in the first race for crossing the white line, he got squeezed and had no-where to go. They said 'you know the rule, dont cross the line' when asked what are you meant to do, they said give in and back off. LOL!!! So everyone get to the outside of the track, n squeeze the rest against the pit wall, as ur meant to back off..........( I dont think so)

N by the way, when I asked about observers and reports coming in, I was basically told nothing was coming in that they could use!!!

The drivers do give out a lot and most of the time with reasonable cause. No action was taken at the weekend to penalise any drivers for mis-conduct. Like most things, guidance and control comes from the top and works down the lines, drivers are like school kids, they need to be controlled and set down rules. What is the purpose of an offfical!!!!!

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally Posted by Tiddles

N by the way, when I asked about observers and reports coming in, I was basically told nothing was coming in that they could use!!!

Ok can you tell me where that came from? That needs to be fed back to the Marshals Club.

I agree that there should be action being taken by the officials.... but how much support are they going to get from the drivers if they do? Isn't there still an ongoing court case in this class based on a decision made 2 years ago?

If the officials won't or can't act and the drivers can't or won't behave, then I assume it's just a question of waiting for the big bang and hoping like hell that no-one will get seriously hurt

[Tiddles]

The way I see it, the drivers hold a Motorsport Ireland licence, and by doing so agree to abide and obey the rules that they set down. If these rules are breeched than it is up to MI to do something about it, not sit back and do nothing.

I'd sooner listen to some-one complaining about 2 points on their licence than have some poor innocent upset about their race being distroyed!!!!!!

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by Tiddles

some poor innocent upset about their race being distroyed!!!!!!

If you find a poor innocent in Supercars then let me know and I'll organise the three wise men for the second coming!

Supercar drivers concerned about driving standards being enforced, yeah, enforced on other people. It's almost like the team principles have their protest forms pre-completed for any CoC decision.

Supercar driver mentality has changed it into a contact class, same way as the BTCC is, bashing is expected. (And let's face it, it's what the punters and the TV audience love) If a Supercar drivers wants better driving standards, trade in the Supercar for a Vee, at least the Vee drivers have the courtesy of giving each other room rather than bulldozing.

No amount of driving standards reports or protested endorsements will change the inherent mindset in that class, the drivers will have to do it themselves.

[Motormouth]

Originally Posted by EvilPumpkin

Well I know that reports were put in on the majority of incidents in all races on Sunday. What happened to them, I have no idea.

There was one black flag IIRC - didn't Mr. Leonard get black flagged in Race 1?

As for the hanging up their boots, we hear this every single year. The SC drivers are a nice bunch of guys, but the second they get out on the track, they turn into ravening maniacs for some reason. And it's not just one or two - I can give you any number of names that I've either reported or seriously considered reporting over the years - and they're all still racing.

The problem is that they're all well-behaved until one of them starts it. Then they want revenge. In getting revenge, they tip some other poor innocent who wasn't involved and then all hell breaks loose!

I wonder how much of it is actually to do with the width of the first corner at Mondello. The majority of problems start there on the first lap - problems that we don't seem to have at Kirkistown. The problem with the first corner at Mondello is that there's really nowhere to go if you get squeezed out - except into the gravel. At Kirky, there's plenty of grass on either side. So less door bashing, less problems and a much cleaner race because no-one has the red mist going.

Just a theory.......

Well said!!! As for other people asking what happened and then displaying a lot more knowledge in subsequent posts, I have a feeling the wooden spoon is in use here!!!

[Tiddles]

Im not using a wooden spoon, Im asking the people on the trackside what did they see happen in their opionion. What I hear in the paddock is a lot of heated heads!!!!!

Michael Halvey got shoved out in the second race, didnt even make it around the first corner......Has he been known to push or shove anyone out or is he a poor innocent driver!!!!

I agree there's a lot of hot heads down there on the track, but still believe it is down to MI to control driving standards.

[Woolley]

You could say it's up to the drivers to control driving standards, and it's MI's task to encourage them. There's only so much you can do from outside and Mondello is not generally overwhelmed by marshals, many of whom are doing at least two jobs at any one time. If a number of the drivers are unhappy with certain aspects, talk to the coordinator and ask him to request that the observers watch for those aspects and report anything that is considered to transgress. But remember, they got one split second view and have to make a decision on what was going on.

[EvilPumpkin]

Don't forget that there are cameras at Mondello. Even in the absence of a report, it's perfectly possible to replay an incident and review it.

However, I happen to know some of the people who witnessed the incident in question and none of them are the kind of people that would provide an "unusable report". I have nothing further to say about that.

However if for any reason, action is not being taken, I would have to wonder why.

I have no idea if this is happening but if it was, I can only say what I believe I might do in an organiser's position. And what I believe I might do, after seeing this for many years, is simply to turn around and say "you're all as bad as each other - come back when you're prepared to play by the rules - ALL of the rules, not just the ones you like or that you think are currently in your favour - and we'll talk".

It's a pity - as has been noted elsewhere, there are doubtless many drivers who don't get involved in "argy bargy" deliberately - although they may get caught up in it. But as long as you have a core group of panel bashers who also have enough money to tie up any disciplinary action in legal red tape for years, you're never going to get anything done.

This is an argument I have had a million times over the years. As long as the drivers totally abdicate responsibility for their own conduct and the conduct of their racing class, they can't complain when no-one else enforces it.

They are NOT children, they are perfectly capable of racing within the rules without someone standing over them with a big stick - they just choose not to.

Not convinced? As Grant says, look at the Vees. And the Strykers for that matter. And the Global Lights. All classes that provide excellent close racing with none of the problems that you see with some of the larger saloon classes. Why? Because as a group, they won't tolerate any bad behaviour.