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Old 20 Sep 2011, 18:06 (Ref:2958667)   #51
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I was going to raise that point too, I'm pretty sure he wasn't the first mixed race driver either, not that I think it matters these days.

Surely Emerson Fittipaldi (Polish mother, Brazillian father), Mario Andretti (Italian/Yugoslav but officially an American), technically Jody Schecter and a few others should be counted as mixed race too?

Unfortunately, this seems to be a colour of the skin issue with Hamilton so some some people see him as more 'mixed race' (for lack of a better word) than some of the above examples. The truth is that the term 'mixed race' is far deeper than the colour of one's skin.

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Old 20 Sep 2011, 18:38 (Ref:2958677)   #52
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The truth is that the term 'mixed race' is far deeper than the colour of one's skin.
'Tis true. I have German and Swedish parentage, but consider myself to be English, having lived in England for all of my life. So definitely 'mixed race', but not obviously so.
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Old 20 Sep 2011, 22:48 (Ref:2958817)   #53
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wasn't Senna half Brazilian and half Italian?...and i doubt he was the first but it was just the first to come to mind because i was recently reading more about him.
No. He had a portuguese ancestry (Ayrton Senna Da Silva), IIRC.


Felipe Massa is grandson of italians, just like myself.

Rubens Barrichello is grandson of italians also.

Most brazilians have european ancestry.
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Old 20 Sep 2011, 22:51 (Ref:2958820)   #54
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Surely Emerson Fittipaldi (Polish mother, Brazillian father)
His mother is not polish but russian, and he's grandson of italians (Fittipaldi).



Furthermore, brazilian is not a race.
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Old 21 Sep 2011, 00:02 (Ref:2958855)   #55
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His mother is not polish but russian, and he's grandson of italians (Fittipaldi).



Furthermore, brazilian is not a race.
Apologies, when I did a quick search his mother came up as Polish-Russian and she had a predominantly Polish surname so I just assumed.

I wasn't claiming Brazilian was a race (neither is Polish for that matter, I was just outlining the difference in family background) but is is part of the Hispanic culture as you well know. On the one side he was certainly influenced from the Iberian coast and on the other by Eastern European practices, quite possibly Judaism but thats just a guess.

In any case, he was almost certainly mixed race as much as Lewis Hamilton is.
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Old 21 Sep 2011, 00:31 (Ref:2958860)   #56
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The only way that Senna would be a person of mixed race would be if one of his ancestors was a Native American. From what has been posted all of his ancestors would seem to be Caucasian regardless of which country they were from. Mixing Eastern European and Iberian would be mixing cultures and not races.
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Old 21 Sep 2011, 01:12 (Ref:2958870)   #57
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I wasn't claiming Brazilian was a race (neither is Polish for that matter, I was just outlining the difference in family background) but is is part of the Hispanic culture as you well know. On the one side he was certainly influenced from the Iberian coast and on the other by Eastern European practices, quite possibly Judaism but thats just a guess.

In any case, he was almost certainly mixed race as much as Lewis Hamilton is.
Well, I'm not sure what you're referring to "hispanic culture", Brazil is not hispanic, never was, and never made part of hispanic culture as a whole. As for influences, I read he's influences from his italian ancestry, nothing that I can remember of being jew or related to Judaism.
And, yeah, all brazilians are mixed, there are no "pure" brazilians as Brazil is a country essencially made by immigrants.
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Old 21 Sep 2011, 01:39 (Ref:2958873)   #58
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Well, I'm not sure what you're referring to "hispanic culture", Brazil is not hispanic, never was, and never made part of hispanic culture as a whole. As for influences, I read he's influences from his italian ancestry, nothing that I can remember of being jew or related to Judaism.
And, yeah, all brazilians are mixed, there are no "pure" brazilians as Brazil is a country essencially made by immigrants.
You see, this is where I run into problems even with the term 'mixed race', very few people in the world today are pure Brazilian/German/British/American etc. Down the line, we are all related to other races, in effect we're all mixed race even if it isn't obvious to the naked eye.
I can see why people wish to feel proud of a certain race or feel as if they belong to it as part of the identity but I do not understand the idea that some races may or not be better than others.
Brazil is not a lone example, the same can quite easily be said for the Americans, Canadians and in particular the Australians. Even here in the U.K there is certainly still underlying differences between the Welsh, Irish and Scotish due to Celtic ancestry and the English with their Anglo-Saxon heritage. Although thankfully, most of the time its good humoured banter but I think there are certainly deep diferences between the two.

My point is more of one of, does it really matter? I almost find the fact that people celebrate the fact that Hamiton as 'the first Mixed Race driver' slightly wrong (whether he is/was or not). Yeah, its brilliant that we now live in a diverse world that (mostly) tolerates other cultures but at the same time, isn't it something that we're coming to expect? Is Formula One somewhat behind the times when it comes to ethnic diversity and only just catching up?

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Old 21 Sep 2011, 01:44 (Ref:2958874)   #59
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Sorry, Bononi you're right I made up a balls-up there. I meant Latino not Hispanic, I meant to say that and I knew it already as you guys speak Portuguese rather than Spanish. Such a fascinating country, Brazil is. I'd love to visit one day and mix with all the different cultures.

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Old 21 Sep 2011, 02:31 (Ref:2958879)   #60
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Sorry, Bononi you're right I made up a balls-up there. I meant Latino not Hispanic, I meant to say that and I knew it already as you guys speak Portuguese rather than Spanish. Such a fascinating country, Brazil is. I'd love to visit one day and mix with all the different cultures.
It's ok, that happens often... but it will raise some fury from brazilians, be warned !

And about the mixed thing, being born and raised in this country, I never made any difference among races/color/religion/nationality/culture whatsoever, it's all so deeply blended that it doesn't even count. To be honest, I never truly saw Hamilton as someone different in these terms, though I could sense this right here many times.
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Old 21 Sep 2011, 05:14 (Ref:2958905)   #61
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My point is more of one of, does it really matter? I almost find the fact that people celebrate the fact that Hamiton as 'the first Mixed Race driver' slightly wrong (whether he is/was or not). Yeah, its brilliant that we now live in a diverse world that (mostly) tolerates other cultures but at the same time, isn't it something that we're coming to expect? Is Formula One somewhat behind the times when it comes to ethnic diversity and only just catching up?
For me the point is exactly that, it doesn't matter indeed it shouldn't even be a consideration. The real issue is that to some people it does and Hamilton's presence is a welcome sign that it matters less now than it did a few years ago and that is something to celebrate.
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Old 21 Sep 2011, 12:13 (Ref:2959040)   #62
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It only matters that he is an awesome driver, certainly one of the best out there and ever.
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Old 21 Sep 2011, 13:48 (Ref:2959081)   #63
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My point is more of one of, does it really matter? I almost find the fact that people celebrate the fact that Hamiton as 'the first Mixed Race driver' slightly wrong (whether he is/was or not).
I don't think it matters to us, the hardcore fans, but it does matter to someone like Bernie and the sport as a whole. F1 is (or was) seen more as a "white mans" sport and then Lewis came in and has done incredibly well.

I don't think it's coincidence that, at the 4 British GP's i've attended since Lewis entered the sport (07-10) that more coloured people have attended than before.

Having a coloured or mixed race driver promotes the sport, the fact that he's very good and controversial makes it all the better.
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Old 21 Sep 2011, 14:24 (Ref:2959094)   #64
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I don't think it's coincidence that, at the 4 British GP's i've attended since Lewis entered the sport (07-10) that more coloured people have attended than before.

Having a coloured or mixed race driver promotes the sport, the fact that he's very good and controversial makes it all the better.
So you noticed, that's interesting, I guess I wouldn't be able to notice such thing.
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Old 21 Sep 2011, 14:59 (Ref:2959111)   #65
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So you noticed, that's interesting, I guess I wouldn't be able to notice such thing.
Must make me a bad person!
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Old 21 Sep 2011, 15:08 (Ref:2959114)   #66
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It only matters that he is an awesome driver, certainly one of the best out there and ever.
Fast but fragile.
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Old 21 Sep 2011, 17:16 (Ref:2959162)   #67
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Fast but fragile.
We're all fragile in some way.
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Old 21 Sep 2011, 17:17 (Ref:2959163)   #68
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Must make me a bad person!
Not really, just a culture thing I believe.
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Old 22 Sep 2011, 00:08 (Ref:2959333)   #69
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I don't think it matters to us, the hardcore fans, but it does matter to someone like Bernie and the sport as a whole. F1 is (or was) seen more as a "white mans" sport and then Lewis came in and has done incredibly well.

I don't think it's coincidence that, at the 4 British GP's i've attended since Lewis entered the sport (07-10) that more coloured people have attended than before.

Having a coloured or mixed race driver promotes the sport, the fact that he's very good and controversial makes it all the better.
I thought we were all coloured people...
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Old 22 Sep 2011, 00:30 (Ref:2959346)   #70
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I thought we were all coloured people...
I feel a song coming on.

Hows it go? "What we need is a great big melting pot".............
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Old 22 Sep 2011, 00:38 (Ref:2959349)   #71
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Obviously we're all in it just for the money !






















Another song coming ?
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Old 22 Sep 2011, 00:49 (Ref:2959352)   #72
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Obviously we're all in it just for the money !
"On a fortune hunt that's far too fleet". *Got songs on the brain now*

"Money! It's a gas. Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash. New car, caviar, four star day dream, think I'll buy me a football team."

Tony Fernandes was heard to be humming that one at Monza.......




















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Another song coming ?
Yep!

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Old 22 Sep 2011, 00:54 (Ref:2959353)   #73
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[QUOTE=Bononi;2959349]Obviously we're all in it just for the money !

Now that is the only colour that I can ever recall counting in F1 - the colour of his money and the quantity!


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