Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides MotorsportAds MotorsTV (Sky 447)  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 20 Mar 2017, 12:33 (Ref:3720178)   #1
BSchneiderFan
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
United Kingdom
London, UK
Posts: 5,014
BSchneiderFan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBSchneiderFan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBSchneiderFan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBSchneiderFan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Existential question

Jerome Stoll of Renault thinks that the engine manufacturers should be considered the "main players" in F1, as it couldn't happen without them. I'm not so sure. I think the teams are the backbone of Formula 1. After all, the days when almost everyone apart from Ferrari used a stock DFV weren't bad years for the sport. Thoughts?
BSchneiderFan is online now  
__________________
Interviewer: "Will the McLaren F1 be your answer to the Ferrari F40?"
Gordon Murray: "Hmm... I don't think we have anyone at McLaren who can weld that badly..."
Quote
Old 20 Mar 2017, 14:39 (Ref:3720207)   #2
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 5,138
chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!
i think i would respond better to an engine maker saying this if it wasnt coming from the Renault camp...i have lingering issues with how they have handled their branding over the last decade so am a tad cynical when it comes to this manu.

as to your question though...for me, its a bit like Adidas saying that the World cup should be about Adidas because they are the ones who provide the balls and you cant play the game without balls.

as you say, if Renault or the other engine manus were not there then the the teams would just use a stock part/equipment as a replacement and the game would go on.

so in an existential sense, there is an element of absurdity in suggesting that the equipment should be the most important aspect of sport. for me its not more important than the athletes and not more important than the teams who organize the competition.

i am reminded of a Michael Jordan/Nike commercial where Spike Lee claimed that 'it's gotta be the shoes' when describing MJ's prowess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abr_LU822rQ

a great ad and no doubt helped to sell a lot of shoes but the reality is that it doesnt explain why some athletes (and teams) are worth watching and supporting.
chillibowl is online now  
__________________
What shall we use to fill the empty spaces, where waves of hunger roar?
Shall we set out across the sea of faces in search of more and more applause?
Shall we buy a new guitar? Shall we drive a more powerful car?
Quote
Old 20 Mar 2017, 15:03 (Ref:3720215)   #3
steve_r
Veteran
 
steve_r's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
England
European Capital of Culture 2008
Posts: 2,092
steve_r should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsteve_r should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsteve_r should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The introduction of these massively over-complicated and massively over-priced power units probably means that there is an element of truth in what he says.
steve_r is offline  
__________________
I didn't wake up in 1995, I didn't wake up speaking in Italian, I didn't wake up doing all these things that are out there.
Quote
Old 21 Mar 2017, 08:17 (Ref:3720377)   #4
Moneyseeker
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,044
Moneyseeker should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMoneyseeker should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMoneyseeker should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMoneyseeker should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I think the engine regs after 2020 will be quite interesting, I don't think that Liberty wants to be held to 'ransom' by anybody and F1 has become too reliant on the big manufacturers who they will know can realistically walk away from F1 at any time regardless of what pieces of paper they have signed (e.g. Toyota).

Remember that Liberty has a foot in FE too, so they may think that let FE do the high tech showcasing and bring F1 back to basics with a more standard engine with KERS, something that is in the range of a wider spread of engine builders to provide?
Moneyseeker is online now  
Quote
Old 21 Mar 2017, 20:41 (Ref:3720487)   #5
djinvicta
Subscriber
Veteran
 
djinvicta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Wales
French France
Posts: 1,959
djinvicta should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjinvicta should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjinvicta should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I think Liberty will spring a few surprises over the next few years. The Bernie reign is over, and it must move forward with todays technology. This situation really had to happen. Me included, we ploughed on with Bernie over the years thinking he would never end..of course it had to. Lets look forward and see what 2017 brings, as normal, it will be controversial..we all wont like it, but it is a step to keep F1 going without BE...
djinvicta is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Mar 2017, 10:53 (Ref:3720626)   #6
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 3,050
Akrapovic has a real shot at the championship!Akrapovic has a real shot at the championship!Akrapovic has a real shot at the championship!Akrapovic has a real shot at the championship!Akrapovic has a real shot at the championship!Akrapovic has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan View Post
Jerome Stoll of Renault thinks that the engine manufacturers should be considered the "main players" in F1, as it couldn't happen without them. I'm not so sure. I think the teams are the backbone of Formula 1. After all, the days when almost everyone apart from Ferrari used a stock DFV weren't bad years for the sport. Thoughts?
My thoughts are that you also couldn't run F1 without tyres or chassis. So unless Stoll has a plan to run his engine on its own via some sort of hover system, the idea of "it couldn't happen without them" is ridiculous.

If the hybrids became too expensive and all the engine manufacturers left, they'd just revert back to regular engines and you'd get the usual players from Mecachrome or even Gibson involved. So it isn't like they HAVE to have them. But what you do need is someone building cars for the engines to go in.
Akrapovic is online now  
Quote
Old 22 Mar 2017, 13:15 (Ref:3720652)   #7
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,239
S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
The fact is, with so many engine manufacturers supplying different teams, chassis design has become just as important and so teams are the ones who make the difference
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 23 Mar 2017, 09:52 (Ref:3720876)   #8
old man
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
England
UK
Posts: 1,969
old man should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridold man should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridold man should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneyseeker View Post
I think the engine regs after 2020 will be quite interesting, I don't think that Liberty wants to be held to 'ransom' by anybody and F1 has become too reliant on the big manufacturers who they will know can realistically walk away from F1 at any time regardless of what pieces of paper they have signed (e.g. Toyota).

Remember that Liberty has a foot in FE too, so they may think that let FE do the high tech showcasing and bring F1 back to basics with a more standard engine with KERS, something that is in the range of a wider spread of engine builders to provide?
Tend to agree with this assessment. For road cars, emissions are becoming the critical factor in what the manufacturers sell and so we could find them switching to FE, it has already started really. The FE races that I have seen, admittedly a very limited number, were good with some excitement based really on the tight confines of the tracks used. I did think that running a field of such cars at Silverstone would not be as "interesting".

If that is the way forward for manufacturers then the F1 scene needs to adopt engine regulations that open up the market
old man is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Mar 2017, 10:20 (Ref:3720884)   #9
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 30,531
Peter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Actually there would be no racing without the Marshals and other volunteers. They are far more important.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
Nobody told me we had a communication problem!
Quote
Old 23 Mar 2017, 18:54 (Ref:3720968)   #10
VIVA GT
Subscriber
Veteran
 
VIVA GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
England
Leicestershire
Posts: 2,807
VIVA GT has a real shot at the podium!VIVA GT has a real shot at the podium!VIVA GT has a real shot at the podium!VIVA GT has a real shot at the podium!VIVA GT has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Mallett View Post
Actually there would be no racing without the Marshals and other volunteers. They are far more important.
I knew that someone would bring this one up eventually.
It reminds me of a 'discussion' I had with an arrogant (unusual - they're usually such lovely people) Marshal in the bar at Silverstone one evening in the late 1980's. He was insistent that we should buy his beers "...because without us marshals you wouldn't be able to race your cars!". We pointed out to him that without teams like us who built the cars, and our drivers, he wouldn't have any racing to marshal!
VIVA GT is offline  
__________________
Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange!
Quote
Old 23 Mar 2017, 20:25 (Ref:3720991)   #11
crmalcolm
Veteran
 
crmalcolm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Italy
Posts: 1,725
crmalcolm should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcrmalcolm should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan View Post
Jerome Stoll of Renault thinks that the engine manufacturers should be considered the "main players" in F1, as it couldn't happen without them. I'm not so sure. I think the teams are the backbone of Formula 1. After all, the days when almost everyone apart from Ferrari used a stock DFV weren't bad years for the sport. Thoughts?
He seems to be forgetting that some entrants choose to build their own engines.
Could F1 exist without engines? - no.
Could it exist without engine(only) suppliers? - possibly.
Could it exist without Renault supplying engines? - easily.
crmalcolm is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Mar 2017, 06:52 (Ref:3721764)   #12
coppice
Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Australia
Thirsk, North Yorkshire
Posts: 121
coppice should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I used to marshal for many years and very much enjoyed it . A few ocean going bores and gob s**tes , perhaps , but that happens everywhere. But I do sense a creeping self aggrandisement by a minority - what the hell is that 'heroes on tour 'thing about ? I certainly wasn't a hero- I did it to feel part of an event and getting in for nowt was a bonus.

It's a necessary , but unglamorous role and certainly doesn't merit being regarded as some act of selfless heroism.
coppice is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Mar 2017, 12:23 (Ref:3721852)   #13
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 30,531
Peter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FamePeter Mallett will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIVA GT View Post
I knew that someone would bring this one up eventually.
It reminds me of a 'discussion' I had with an arrogant (unusual - they're usually such lovely people) Marshal in the bar at Silverstone one evening in the late 1980's. He was insistent that we should buy his beers "...because without us marshals you wouldn't be able to race your cars!". We pointed out to him that without teams like us who built the cars, and our drivers, he wouldn't have any racing to marshal!
Understood, but in the context of Formula One, I think the difference is that one group of people, the Teams and Engine Builders etc. are there for business reasons, the Marshals are all volunteers. They don't have to turn up.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
Nobody told me we had a communication problem!
Quote
Old 27 Mar 2017, 15:41 (Ref:3721895)   #14
NaBUru38
Veteran
 
NaBUru38's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Uruguay
Las Canteras, Uruguay
Posts: 6,573
NaBUru38 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridNaBUru38 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Except for Ferrari, entries come and go.

McLaren has been doing poorly since 2013.
Renault has done poorly since 2009.
Williams did poorly in the late 2000s and early 2010s.
Red Bull debuted in 2005.
Mercedes returned in 1994.

Can we say that Red Bull defines F1? Or Williams? Or McLaren? I think not.
NaBUru38 is offline  
__________________
"Show me a driver who didnít make a handful of errors this year, and Iíll show you someone who wasnít trying hard enough." - David Malsher
Quote
Old 27 Mar 2017, 17:26 (Ref:3721913)   #15
BSchneiderFan
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
United Kingdom
London, UK
Posts: 5,014
BSchneiderFan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBSchneiderFan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBSchneiderFan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBSchneiderFan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
There is a difference between saying that one particular team defines F1, and that teams (as opposed to manufacturers) in general do.
BSchneiderFan is online now  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question about question... Lisboa National & International Single Seaters 5 1 Sep 2002 22:23
Dumb question Crash Test Formula One 10 5 Jun 2000 12:47
A quick question Minardi fan Formula One 12 20 May 2000 17:51
I Posed A Question Peter Mallett Announcements and Feedback 9 10 Oct 1999 05:56
A Question of a T-Shirt Liz Announcements and Feedback 9 24 May 1999 01:25


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 18:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2016 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.