CC Racing Developments Group 1 Ford Capri Mk III's

[Peter Mallett]

Not disagreeing with you, just that IIRC my Capri cert (which is currently in the UK) has the last stamps in 1978.

[chunterer]

Good further debate guys. I'm not sure either about homologation extension for the 3.0 engine/model but I'm pretty sure that the car was at least granted dispensation to continue until 1985 or 86 (that is when prodsaloon homologation expired I think?).

I believe that 3.0 production ended in 1981 but 3.0 cars continued to be registered for the road (at least in the UK) well into 1983 maybe even '84. There would have been pretty big stockpiles of the things here and in Germany and dealers may have sold them at discount. I bet a fair few went to racing people too?

As an interesting aside, I remember definitely seeing a 'Y' plate metallic blue 3.0S near my school sometime in 1985 and that would have meant it was registered 'new' between Aug 82 and July 83. I even think I once saw an 'A' plated white one and was well excited!!!

As for the racing, there would surely have been new standard cars available for people to purchase and build to Group A spec, but with the vast amount of ex Group 1 cars already around, surely it would have been easier to uprate them instead (as Chatfield, Goode and Newman did in UK and I suspect many did in Belgium). That's not to say that there wouldn't have been a plentiful supply of shells, chassis and running gear to repair a damaged car though (as would be required for that car that's smacked a Camaro in the Zolder pic OUCH!!!!).

That Brno blue car in the link Jesper posted with 2.8 injection on the boot is interesting. I can't see why anyone would've run a Group A spec 2.8 over the 3.0 'privately' when Capri experts CC/Rouse had already tried it in '82 and decided the car just wouldn't work. It would be expensive at least to run an unproven car/package as a privateer. Maybe this Brno car was just badged to make it look more up to date?

I still think we've got a load of untapped potential for investigation in the Benelux regions from the early to mid 80's because we definitely know CC built new cars for Belgium (the Michel-Martins, Semoulin, Peltier etc) and they also ended up in France and Holland i'm sure.

Germany was clearly a different matter because there were already quite a few Ford prep experts there like Eichberg, HWRT and for all we know Zakspeed, who would kow their way around a Capri race car and would've had links to Cologne, not Boreham like CC did.

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by chunterer

That Brno blue car in the link Jesper posted with 2.8 injection on the boot is interesting. I can't see why anyone would've run a Group A spec 2.8 over the 3.0 'privately' when Capri experts CC/Rouse had already tried it in '82 and decided the car just wouldn't work. It would be expensive at least to run an unproven car/package as a privateer. Maybe this Brno car was just badged to make it look more up to date?

Germany was clearly a different matter because there were already quite a few Ford prep experts there like Eichberg, HWRT and for all we know Zakspeed, who would kow their way around a Capri race car and would've had links to Cologne, not Boreham like CC did.

I can see why Bernd Siller as an entrant and merchant would enter a current German produced “risky” product like the 2.8 rather than the deleated British 3.0 as he was and by all accounts is a current Ford dealer (Siller was entering an RS2600 in the ETCC in 1976) as he was interested in selling German 2.8s:
http://www.ford-besico.de/index.asp

Jesper

[chunterer]

I wasn't aware of that. True, as a dealer as he would want to promote the most up to date model, but it wouldn't make sense to run an actual 2.8 as a pukka Group A car instead of a 3.0 unless he got a lot of help!! The car just wouldnt work properly.

Back to my earlier post here are the links I mentioned:

1/ Yellow Capri at Spa:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqkWdgptBX0

The car appears at about 3m53 into the piece after the Jolly club GTV6...

This car also appears on RSC as entered by Alain Semoulin.

http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-29-016.jpg

If the cars in the 2 pics are the same one, then this is highly likely originally a CC built car as Semoulin was one of their customers I believe?

A Semoulin car also ran under Michel Vaillant' entry in 1983:

http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-31-018.jpg

2/ Esso white/red/blue DPM Capri, driver 'Schem' taken by Norbert Vogel at Zolder. It is one of many excellent images of better known cars from German Group A in 1984:

http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...alenpokal.html

In addition I noticed a plain white car avoiding an errant GTV6 at the Vallelunga ETC race in 1982. It's pic 4, Car 15 I think?

http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...allelunga.html

Then Bodo Jahn's red car at the '82 TT from Germany, but could it have been an ex Spice or a rented Spice car for the weekend??

http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...lverstone.html

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Then Bodo Jahn's red car at the '82 TT from Germany, but could it have been an ex Spice or a rented Spice car for the weekend??

http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...lverstone.html

Funny you should mention Bodo Jähn and the Auto Veri Capri and Gordon Spice - Frank once again providing the results, this time Donington '84 and now running a Mustang:
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...Donington.html
Here Jähn and Spice team up in an Auto Veri Mustang, so presumably they kept in contact during this period?

...and thank you, Chunterer, for the excellent youtube link - although in Japanese it's still great footage!

Jesper

[chunterer]

Jesper, there's 5 or 5 installments of that Japanese Spa tribute - good aren't they!!

So Jahn shared a Mustang with Spice in '84 then? Had no idea but that potentially lends even more credence to the Jahn '82 TT Capri being a Spice car theory?

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by chunterer

So Jahn shared a Mustang with Spice in '84 then? Had no idea but that potentially lends even more credence to the Jahn '82 TT Capri being a Spice car theory?

Jahns Co driver at the Silverstone TT was Barrie Williams I think. I will dig out my program and see if it gives any clue about the history of the car.

http://rupert8766.fotopic.net/p4425931.html

In the background of this photo you can just make out a another Capri from the 82 TT. I think this may have been a 2.8 car due to its 2 tone colour scheme.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Nordic

Jahns Co driver at the Silverstone TT was Barrie Williams I think. I will dig out my program and see if it gives any clue about the history of the car.

http://rupert8766.fotopic.net/p4425931.html

In the background of this photo you can just make out a another Capri from the 82 TT. I think this may have been a 2.8 car due to its 2 tone colour scheme.

I don't think it's the one in the picture, but I remember Gerry Marshall entering his prodsaloon Capri (which I'm sure was a 2.8) into the TT (not sure what year either, but should have pictures somewhere) co-driven by rally driver Roger Clark, winning thier class (for Group N presumably)...

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I don't think it's the one in the picture, but I remember Gerry Marshall entering his prodsaloon Capri (which I'm sure was a 2.8) into the TT (not sure what year either, but should have pictures somewhere) co-driven by rally driver Roger Clark, winning thier class (for Group N presumably)...

12th September 1982 and yes, they won the Group N class in a 2.8i and finished 3rd overall. I think Paul Taft might have co-driven too but not sure on that and if you want any other drivers/cars/results from the race I have the programme and results.

[Jesper OH]

David Yates raced another Group N Capri at the '82 TT co-driven by Phil Dowsett and/or Roger Payne but DNF'ed. The Marshall Capri seems at best to have finished around 20th overall, rather than third.

Jesper

[VIVA GT]

I knew Gregor would have been able to confirm the entry, thanks for that. I must admit however that like Jesper I doubt the overall race position, I'm sure they finished well down the order (as they should have done in a Group A race!).

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Jesper, there's 5 or 5 installments of that Japanese Spa tribute - good aren't they!!

So Jahn shared a Mustang with Spice in '84 then? Had no idea but that potentially lends even more credence to the Jahn '82 TT Capri being a Spice car theory?

Looking through the pics on RSC, looks like Jahn may have fielded the red Capri a number of times in '82- another pic, looking like the same car, this time at Brno
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-06-13-010.jpg
Entrant was 'Brauneiser Renntechnik', as for the TT car.

There's another Capri at the same Brno race with 'Auto Veri' backing, in two-tone colourscheme for Schwertfeger/Wanhoffer
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-06-13-011.jpg

[chunterer]

Thanks for those KA!

Funny, these overseas Capri owners seemed to like running them on Ford 'RS alloys like the later 'S' roadcars had rather than the ubiquitous Minilites that most Tricentrol runners used?

If Jahn ran that red car all year then perhaps that suggests if it was an ex CC/Spice chassis then he acquired it before 1982?

[Nordic]

Found my program for the 82 TT.
7 Capris were entered in Grp A and 2 in Grp N

Of the 7 in Grp A, 6 turned up and 5 were 3 litre cars the only 2.8 car was for Gordon Spice. The no show was the KWS Autotechnik cra.

Fastest Capri was the Brindley/Sawyer Hoare Esso car that Q'ed in 11th and finished 6th.

The 2 Grp N cars (only 3 cars entered GrpN +2500) were the Marshall and Yates cars.

[Nordic]

Sorry misread my writing.

Fastest Q capri was Woodman/Buncombe in 4th.
The Spice 2.8 car (if thats what he used ) was 8th Q.

[chunterer]

That's right Nordic, the 2.8 was the CC test mule Gordy shared with Andy Rouse that we discussed earlier in the thread. The car was an ex Belga/Spa chassis with the experimental 2800cc injected engine installed in place of the 'Essex' lump.

As it was a Belga shell that probably means it would've had an early CC chassis number as the Belga cars ran at Spa from 1978-80? Peter Mallett will likely be able to confirm this!

The car Vince ran at that 'TT' was, I think, his regular BTCC mount which is believed to have been CC20. However that probably depends how much work was involved in changing the cars from Group 1 spec to Group A and then back again for the last 2 Tricentrol rounds!

[chunterer]

Further bit of (wild) speculation:

In that Escort Thundersaloon thread by 'Gloves', there's reference to Terry Nicholls Gartrac/GA Mk3 Capri.

He shared it with Holman Blackburn in the Thundersaloons race relative to that Escort. I'm just wondering that as Les was a Tricentrol Group 1 regular with a Capri (The Mann's garage yellow car in the late 70's/early 80's), whether Terry bought the car from Holman and then after the major modifications asked him to share the car with him?

I think Terry might have even shared Holman's car at the British ETC rounds in either '82 or '83? Very possible link here even if the car might not have originally been a CC build?

[ORP]

I believe the Terry Nicholls - Gartrac Capri/GA was an ex-Faberge Gp1 car converted to Special saloon/Thundersaloon spec at Gartrac.

[chunterer]

Ahh yes I think you're right you know!

I've got a feeling someone told me that to me years ago now you mention it ORP....

I think the Faberge car was a CC chassis as well If I remember correctly. There was some talk that it was on display at Boreham for a number of years?

However, I don't think this is the same car that has been out in Classic Group 1 recently in hands of Richard Austin though?

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

David Yates raced another Group N Capri at the '82 TT co-driven by Phil Dowsett and/or Roger Payne but DNF'ed. The Marshall Capri seems at best to have finished around 20th overall, rather than third.

Jesper

Doh, missed out the 2, it should have read 23rd overall - sorry guys!!

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by chunterer

However, I don't think this is the same car that has been out in Classic Group 1 recently in hands of Richard Austin though?

According to the builder the Austin car is an ex display car, it was never originally built to Group 1 regs but it was a replica (if that makes sense).

[ORP]

[QUOTE=chunterer]

I think the Faberge car was a CC chassis as well If I remember correctly. There was some talk that it was on display at Boreham for a number of years?

Going on memory alone! I think the ex Faberge Gp1 car that was possibly driven by Stuart Graham, was not a CC chassis.

[ORP]

Uncovered some 'patchy' information regarding the early chassis numbers of CCRD Capri's.

CC2. Gordon Spice, (Spa).
CC3. Jeff Allam, Dave Streather/Modsaloons etc.
CC4. Rene Boulders, (Luxembourg).
CC5. Gordon Spice/Motorcraft, (Spa 1978-1st).
CC6. Chris Craft/Motorcraft.
CC7. Jean-Michel Martin, (Spa 1979-1st).
CC8. Sold Abroad.
CC9. Andy Rouse (1980).
CC10.Gordon Spice (1980).
CC13.Jean-Michel Martin (Spa 1980-1st).
CC15.Vince Woodman.
CC20.Vince Woodman, (RAC BSCC 1982).

Errors/corrections welcomed!

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by ORP

Uncovered some 'patchy' information regarding the early chassis numbers of CCRD Capri's.

CC2. Gordon Spice, (Spa).
CC3. Jeff Allam, Dave Streather/Modsaloons etc.
CC4. Rene Boulders, (Luxembourg).
CC5. Gordon Spice/Motorcraft, (Spa 1978-1st).
CC6. Chris Craft/Motorcraft.
CC7. Jean-Michel Martin, (Spa 1979-1st).
CC8. Sold Abroad.
CC9. Andy Rouse (1980).
CC10.Gordon Spice (1980).
CC13.Jean-Michel Martin (Spa 1980-1st).
CC15.Vince Woodman.
CC20.Vince Woodman, (RAC BSCC 1982).

Errors/corrections welcomed!

Now that's more like it!!

Fantastic contribution ORP, many many thanks!! If I may ask how on earth did you get hold of that info?

We've needed something like this for ages as a proper baseline to build upon as we also needed with the Rover thread and look how that's carried on!!!

Ade Vickers (who now has CC3) will be quite interested in that I think.

I'll copy this provisional info over to the chassis archive in due course if that's ok with you ORP?

Oh and by the way re the Graham/Faberge car, I notice that I even listed it as going on to Terry Nicholls in the opening post of this thread!!! Doh....

[ORP]

I have just discovered these notes regarding the chassis numbers, (I was looking for some info on the Faberge car(s), earlier in the thread.) -- Was trying to find out a bit more about the history of the CC Capri's a few years ago.