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31 Aug 2008, 22:53 (Ref:2279054) | #1 | ||
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S2000 replaced by tubechassis V8´s ?
Hey guys,
in DK we have one of Europes best S2000 championships, the Danish Touringcar Championship. But it seems that the greediness of the organizers and promoters has reached a new high. They plan to replace the S2000 cars, which can be bought of the shelve from numerous manufacturers across Europe, with an one make Pratt + Miller tubular chassis V8 car, with silhouette bodies. I am not aware of one single series in Europe which has any kind of success with this concept, outside the DTM series. The V8 Star series suffered a grim death, and I am not aware of any S2000 brand, who thinks replacing the S2000 cars with a noname chassis is viable. Thoughts? |
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Le Mans Christian Bakkerud, Team Kolles Formula Renault 2.0 NEC Mikkel Mac DTC Martin Marrill, M-Sport |
31 Aug 2008, 23:33 (Ref:2279068) | #2 | ||
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31 Aug 2008, 23:46 (Ref:2279072) | #3 | ||
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My thought is... go to Stockholm, organize a forum with STCC BoD and team bosses, series backers... and try to get the conclusion. The conclusion would be, let's create the best European S2000 league, together, let us beat WTCC with our resources, with our teams and drivers, because some of our teams are well backed, very professional with great drivers.... and the audience and TV is there to back us up.
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31 Aug 2008, 23:50 (Ref:2279074) | #4 | |||
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Marbot : "Ironically, the main difference between a Red Bull and a Virgin is that Red Bull can make parts of its car smaller and floppier." |
1 Sep 2008, 00:04 (Ref:2279078) | #5 | ||
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Promotor Peter Elgaard and Jan Magnussen, who is representing the teams as he partly owns Alternative Engineering (Former Peugeot Sport), visited Sunday with P+M to see their offering concerning tubularchassis cars. Obviously the target is costcutting, but I cant see the benefit or payoff..
Alex_K and duke_toaster: We agree, in DK although small country we have an extremely strong S2000 championship. And if we joined forces with STCC, I am sure that we with the manufacturer support could prove them wrong. We have cars with factory support from BMW, SEAT, Honda, Chevrolet and Volvo. Neither of them could possibly have any interest in scrapping their S2000 cars and marketing efforts of their streetcars, in favour of some OEM truck.. In my book, it is murder..! Last edited by Aslak Vind; 1 Sep 2008 at 00:06. |
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Le Mans Christian Bakkerud, Team Kolles Formula Renault 2.0 NEC Mikkel Mac DTC Martin Marrill, M-Sport |
1 Sep 2008, 01:00 (Ref:2279089) | #6 | ||
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Hmm, P&M tubeframe-chassis and V8. Looks like P&M are recycling their GXP.R-concept from Rolex GT. Although those are indeed a bit pricier than S2000 cars with ~300k USD when new. Maybe a simplified version of those?
Belgium has a modestly successfull silouette-class as well in the BTCS. I think they get around 7-8 cars in their headlining S1-class. Mostly cars from former French Supertourisme and Renault Megane Trophy there. With Mags being a Corvette-factory driver, it's no surprise that they choose P&M. Last edited by Speed-King; 1 Sep 2008 at 01:03. |
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2 Sep 2008, 19:29 (Ref:2280309) | #7 | ||
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2 Sep 2008, 19:59 (Ref:2280336) | #8 | |||
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But eitherway, I find it strange as well. No matter how you cut the cake, Jan has a doublerole. Last edited by Aslak Vind; 2 Sep 2008 at 20:02. |
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Le Mans Christian Bakkerud, Team Kolles Formula Renault 2.0 NEC Mikkel Mac DTC Martin Marrill, M-Sport |
1 Sep 2008, 02:12 (Ref:2279104) | #9 | ||
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This idea has also been floated in Australia for the V8 Supercars to cut costs.
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1 Sep 2008, 02:15 (Ref:2279105) | #10 | |
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I used to enjoy Supertouring a bit and I've tried to get into S2000 and I just can't get interested. I've watched the STCC, WTCC and BTCC and I really do try to follow it and get interested but the cars are just too slow and unspectacular. I wouldn't make a trip to Europe to see a S2000 race but I would fly to Aus or NZ for V8SC and NZV8's.
Perhaps Magnusson and friends can see the writing on the wall. I don't think they're being "greedy" just that as racing drivers you want a challenge and crowds prefer real race cars. |
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1 Sep 2008, 12:50 (Ref:2279361) | #11 | |||
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Exactly what I think! Although I don´t think that V8 powered tubeframe cars are the answer, I would prefer 1.8 - 2.0 liter turbos with, and this is the most important part, more power to grip than S2000. Maybe something like 350 hk, low downforce and some spec parts in the chassis to keep costs down. I don´t think it would cost more than todays S2000, it would still be interesting for manufacturers and it would be more spectacular for the fans. |
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1 Sep 2008, 13:16 (Ref:2279373) | #12 | ||
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If Denmark really moves away from S2000, the only series left with that ruleset will be Great Britain, Sweden and the World Championship. To an lesser extend ADAC-Procar, but they race to the S2000-rules from 2005, so their importance for the S2000-world is really neglegible.
I guess that's bad news for the whole 2litre-touring community as it further reduces the possibilities to sell and race these cars. |
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1 Sep 2008, 08:29 (Ref:2279198) | #13 | ||
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I'm wondering how many DTC-cars are private, and how many are backed by a manufacturer/importer. If most are, i can't see this working. When Aslak is right when he says that no manufacturer is interested in a tube-framed racecar with it's name on it. If however the field is mainly made up of privateers, who can still race for the Danisch title, at a lower cost with faster cars, then the chances are higher. However, they still forego the opportunity to race in other series that might be interesting for them (STCC/WTCC/Procar) or sell the cars to drivers in other championships.
Having said that, I do like S2000-cars, and I like the idea of standard tubecars less, so I am against. |
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1 Sep 2008, 08:57 (Ref:2279218) | #14 | ||
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Thank you for your thoughts, keep them coming.
Well the top of the DTC is manufacturer supported, while the rest is competing in the DTC Cup. That mainly is divided, whether or not the driver is a pro or privateer. So in theory I guess that the privateers could see it as a possibility. But as werner suggests, they will only be able to compete in Danish series. Much like the Danish Endurance Series, where the Danish sportscar Aquila SR-1 competes. it is made by modular chassis, so it is unable to compete anywhere else - and it has been a less than brilliant succes. Last edited by Aslak Vind; 1 Sep 2008 at 09:04. |
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Le Mans Christian Bakkerud, Team Kolles Formula Renault 2.0 NEC Mikkel Mac DTC Martin Marrill, M-Sport |
1 Sep 2008, 09:19 (Ref:2279231) | #15 | |||
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1 Sep 2008, 22:03 (Ref:2279769) | #16 | ||
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S2000 is okay, but I think everyone is getting bored with it. Plus it's not a big draw for crowds and manufacturers have been lukewarm about it. I've heard BMW may pull out of the WTCC and Alfa is already long gone. |
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1 Sep 2008, 22:11 (Ref:2279780) | #17 | |||
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True, manufacturers have not really embraced S2000 as we all hoped, but if these new WTCC reg's come in, and we get stability in that championship, maybe more will join. |
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1 Sep 2008, 22:42 (Ref:2279797) | #18 | ||
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1 Sep 2008, 23:00 (Ref:2279807) | #19 | ||||
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Of course manufacturers and other powers that be might push for a greener image for racing, but at least to me that doesn't amount to a moral obligation to Green Racing. I have absolutely no problem with going green, but not if the sport on track is the victim. If it can be done without unreasonable additional costs I'm all for it. Quote:
Maybe we should try to get away from the question of the morality of V8s and get back to the issue at hand - namely the possibility of a Danish V8 Silhouette-series and the possible move away from S2000. I can easily see this truning into another of those terrible global warming discussions, and I'd rather not go through that again. The question what implications this will have on the Danish and European racing scene is interesting enough! Last edited by Speed-King; 1 Sep 2008 at 23:09. |
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2 Sep 2008, 10:25 (Ref:2279987) | #20 | |||
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2 Sep 2008, 14:56 (Ref:2280122) | #21 | |||
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2 Sep 2008, 15:17 (Ref:2280131) | #22 | ||
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2 Sep 2008, 18:13 (Ref:2280244) | #23 | ||
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2 Sep 2008, 18:51 (Ref:2280279) | #24 | |||
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This Danish proposal sounds like Stock Car Brasil: Single make chassis and single make V8 engine. Currently Chevrolet, Peugeot and Mitsubishi are racing in this series. More about this series:I don't know if this works in Europe. Manufacturers didn't allow to use their brands in V8Stars. And V8 engines? I think a 2L NA or 2L turbo is more logical. Last edited by FIRE; 2 Sep 2008 at 18:54. |
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2 Sep 2008, 21:12 (Ref:2280422) | #25 | ||
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