Which Formula Ford ?

flipper · 19 Oct 2009, 13:37 (Ref:2564664)

I fancy racing a pre-72 FF in the HSCC series next year however im not the most svelte of people.

So I'm wondering whats the choice of cars for someone with size 10 feet and a frame better built for rugby ( a back not a front row forward ! )

Any suggestions gratefully received

Alan Morgan · 19 Oct 2009, 16:28 (Ref:2564784)

Pallisers have always had a reputation for having generously proportioned cockpits (hence their popularity in the States...), but there aren't many of them around. Avoid Lotus 61s and early Dulons. Unfortunately, the season has just finished, but your best bet would probably be to go to an HSCC meeting and have a look at the cars. If you see one that looks promising, ask the owner if you can sit in it, I think you'll find most people won't mind.

Of course, you could always consider Historic FF2000 - I could arrange for you to try several of them for size...

The Flagman · 19 Oct 2009, 18:27 (Ref:2564862)

Good suggestion by Alan there. Walter Hayes Trophy will have most comprehensive selection of FF cars of all ages. Silverstone 31/10 and 01/11.

The FF2000 idea is a good one too. Better value and an upcoming category that should get Championship status in 2010. Some of those at WHT too.

Its not just the girth either. Have to make sure head / helmet doesn't stick up too far just in case....... Notice there are a few chaps in single seaters who have "muffined" in their cars. (Bottom half squeezed in top half overflowing cockpit - Vaseline needed for insertion and tyre lever for extraction) Not great for safety. Need to be comfortable to enjoy it.

Alan Morgan · 19 Oct 2009, 20:13 (Ref:2564962)

Quote:

The FF2000 idea is a good one too. Better value and an upcoming category that should get Championship status in 2010. Some of those at WHT too.

Thanks for the testimonial, Flagman. Actually, the decision whether or not to go for championship status has to be made around July. We decided that we would rather stick with a series for 2010, rather than go for a championship that we might not be able to sustain in the long run. As it happens, from July onwards we had really strong grids, but I'm happy that we did the right thing.

As Flagman says, the WHT is probably the last (and best) chance of the year to see a variety of cars that might be appealing, so make a date for the end of the month!

James Murray · 19 Oct 2009, 20:21 (Ref:2564969)

As Alan said Pallisers are a good choice for the tall and wide. Lola T200 series is also a good choice as the steering rack is above the drivers legs meaning the pedals can be pushed very far forwards.

flipper · 20 Oct 2009, 14:13 (Ref:2565476)

Alan

You are only up the road from me ( im near Guildford ) but wings and things arent they just more of a problem ?

I was put off radicals as they "can only be set up by a few people " and they worked out to be seriously expensive to run

FF festival is a good idea, shame I fancy a Lotus.

Appreciate the guidance thus far

jhh911 · 20 Oct 2009, 16:44 (Ref:2565549)

Eldens are worth consideration as I am 6 feet tall and weigh in at 13 stone and fit no problem with head well below roll bar.They are also very safe as has been shown this year.Also I just happen to have mine for sale.

chris bailey · 20 Oct 2009, 17:02 (Ref:2565558)

I'm 6ft 2" and not skinny. I've had a Lotus 61, Lotus 69 and Elden Mk8/10 in the past. The Elden was the most comfortable, but the cross-bracing in the footwell needed revising for my size 11 feet before I could operate brake and throttle with my right foot.

Just to throw a spanner in the works...... If you're a slightly larger than average chappie, then Sports 2000 is a very attractive alternative to the single seater options. An Historic Tiga would be ideal. Longer races, great circuits and a very well-behaved bunch of boys and girls to race with. Not that I'm biased, you understand.............

Rollo Tomasi (Swift DB2, #36)

schuey57 · 20 Oct 2009, 17:30 (Ref:2565579)

try a van diemen rf82-83 formula ford 2000, im 6ft 5 and also built for rugby

James Murray · 20 Oct 2009, 19:34 (Ref:2565660)

As John says Elden has plenty of room for the same reason as the Lola T200 series as I already mentioned in my first post. Although the Eldens ability to stand up in a crash has been thoroughly evaluated this year, I would rather put a Lola chassis to the test. Its much more substantial. I doubt however there's any performance difference between the two or most other chassis for that matter.

Regarding Alan's suggestion of HFF2000 dont let the fact they have wings influence your decision, they have very little influence on the cars handling and arent really factored into the equation when setting up the car as they're very primitive.

If you chose either series you wouldnt be dissapointed and both offer good value racing in the UK and in Europe and would be far cheaper to run than a radical and the cars also retain their value as theres always a market for them when you come to sell.

Alan Morgan · 20 Oct 2009, 20:25 (Ref:2565706)

I think you'll also find that Historic FF1600, Historic FF2000 and Sports 2000 drivers have a more realistic view of their capabilities than certain drivers in Radicals.

Rob31 · 20 Oct 2009, 20:32 (Ref:2565714)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris bailey

The Elden was the most comfortable, but the cross-bracing in the footwell needed revising for my size 11 feet before I could operate brake and throttle with my right foot.

Rollo Tomasi (Swift DB2, #36)

i have an elden mk8 and the room for feet and arms is very tight.
i am quite small so its fine for me

chris bailey · 21 Oct 2009, 09:33 (Ref:2566074)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Morgan

I think you'll also find that Historic FF1600, Historic FF2000 and Sports 2000 drivers have a more realistic view of their capabilities than certain drivers in Radicals.

Quite right! One of the fundamental principles of Sports 2000 is a strictly-enforced "no contact" rule. That's not to say there isn't the occasional bit of rubbing, but the club takes a dim view of anyone who persistantly runs into other drivers, and has banned competitors in the past.

It's interesting to compare the three formulae. The cost to acquire, the cost to fettle and the cost to run might not be very different, as a total. I'm constantly surprised how expensive the Classic FF1600 cars are, never mind the cost of a good engine. Classic FF2000 has to be the bargain choice at present. That will inevitably change as it gains in popularity. Sports 2000 sits somewhere in the middle. Cars can be had for reasonable money, they are very robust, and you get 25 minute races at places like Brands GP, Silverstone GP, Oulton International, Dijon, Spa........ As I have no career ambition beyond running at the sharp end of my chosen category, Sports 2000 suits me down to the ground. And they are proper little racing cars.

Rollo (no axe to grind) Tomasi

James Murray · 21 Oct 2009, 11:28 (Ref:2566175)

Chris I agree that the running costs for all 3 are about the same, but what I cant fathom is why Sports 2000 cars are so much more expensive than HFF and HFF2000 cars, when currently there's no place for them to race in mainstream historic racing.

I cant agree that Sports 2000 sits somewhere in the middle when a front running Hff costs 15k and probably similar for a HFF2000 now. I think the Sports 2000 cars are over priced based on where you can race them compared to the other two.

schuey57 · 21 Oct 2009, 12:21 (Ref:2566232)

logical choice then is classic ff2000, cheap cars, engine capable of 2 seasons, every part available from "URS".

dikko · 21 Oct 2009, 12:37 (Ref:2566256)

logical choice then is Historic ff 1600, prestige cars, engine capable of 5 seasons, every part available from Ford....

Great racing and classy sausages with our BBQs (!) plus for BIG boys we now are coming in line with other FF clubs with a 500Kg minimum car/driver weight and no trick suspensions - easy to set up with a bit of string - all without the enormous bodywork.

Drivers rep Peter Alexanders web site has a few cars for sale (anyone has one - it is free to advertise) on PA Motorport. There's lanky and big John Eliots car on there, a snip at under £10K. He went well with it too.

Next year we'll have 3 double-headers and an invite to Spa.
You can also join the Classic FF if 9 races with us isn't enough...
Happy to have you flipper.

chris bailey · 21 Oct 2009, 12:39 (Ref:2566258)

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Murray

Chris I agree that the running costs for all 3 are about the same, but what I cant fathom is why Sports 2000 cars are so much more expensive than HFF and HFF2000 cars, when currently there's no place for them to race in mainstream historic racing.

I cant agree that Sports 2000 sits somewhere in the middle when a front running Hff costs 15k and probably similar for a HFF2000 now. I think the Sports 2000 cars are over priced based on where you can race them compared to the other two.

If £15k buys a front-running HFF, then I's certainly argue in favour of an Historic Sports 2000. You could buy a pre-83 Tiga or Royale for less than £20k. These run in the SRCC Historic championship, albeit not at HSCC meetings. The engines are far more robust than the Kent, and you get a lot more car for your money. For an old git like me, they are much safer, while at the same time significantly quicker. My FF days are from way back in the 1980's, in pre-74 FF1600, against the likes of Andy Wallace, and his little brother Paul (arguably the quicker of the two). It was great fun, for ten laps at a time. Now I get to keep going long enough to get tired!! I'm not saying it's better, but it's great racing, in proper cars, on proper circuits.

Rollo.

p.s. We regularly get the garages, even at the FF Festival, along with proper hospitality at every round. And 1-hour endurance events. Sorry, I'll shut up now.......

James Murray · 21 Oct 2009, 13:21 (Ref:2566298)

But your spending 20k to buy a Tiga/Lola/Royale on a car that isnt eligible for historic racing and is only eligible for modern club racing in UK. A 15k Historic FF will get you to most major historic events in Europe plus HSCC and Classic FF in UK plus one off FF1600 races such as Walter Hayes etc. Cant see how an Historic S2000 is good VFM at their current prices in comparison.

dikko · 22 Oct 2009, 09:19 (Ref:2566935)

Thinking about it....if you have a mind for a Lotus, Simon Hadfield has a race-winning 51. He's a big enough lad. If you could persuade him to part with it for the price you can afford the only thing to stop you winning will be you...

Gorgeous shape (like nearly all the rest on the grid) resale price will not go down.

FA73 · 22 Oct 2009, 11:57 (Ref:2567045)

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Murray

A 15k Historic FF will get you to most major historic events in Europe plus HSCC and Classic FF in UK plus one off FF1600 races such as Walter Hayes etc.

Alternatively a 5-10K Classic FF1600 (1972 - 1981) will be eligible for all the above mentioned series apart from the HSCC FF1600.

See www.classicformulaford.com which includes a cars for sale section.

We have slightly smaller grids than the HSCC series and run at BARC meetings rather than Historic events. We have however welcomed a few HSCC Drivers into some of our events (running in Class B Pre 74) and they seemed to enjoy them. Amanda W especially !! - she won all three races she entered !!

Simon Hadfield · 22 Oct 2009, 11:59 (Ref:2567046)

Thanks for the testimonial but the 51 is not for sale - its far too much fun! Historic Formula Ford is the best championship there is, fairly and properly policed, and with the new driver included weight, the fairest. Where else can you go this fast for as little outlay and have a reasonable chance of capital maintenance? Go for it!

schuey57 · 22 Oct 2009, 12:16 (Ref:2567058)

have they agredd a combined car/driver weight!, I've been trying to do the same thing in the classic f-ford 2000 c-ship for years

what combined weight did they come up with?

dikko · 22 Oct 2009, 17:10 (Ref:2567253)

500Kg.

All ready for post christmas racing....

jhh911 · 22 Oct 2009, 17:10 (Ref:2567255)

The Weights are 420k for car 500k all up.At least the non lightweights amongst us now have a level playing field.Why did this take so long in a series aimed, I would have thought at the more mature competitor,not 9 stone jockeys?

dikko · 22 Oct 2009, 17:16 (Ref:2567262)

Because of arguments against it......by 9 stone jockeys...they wern't there at the drivers meeting this year........

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