Iain's (Delta Racing Car) Builder's Tea Break 2015

[delta]

First Christmas dinner here at Llandow , Im stuffed there are some things I like about Christmas .

[delta]

Gazza Mike is correct . If you are changing the water pump good old hammer and chisel will do the job .

[midgetman]

In the cafe there? I'm coming down to run The Boy and a customer this weekend so don't eat it all! Mind you with the high winds forecast, not much chance of Father Christmas landing

[gary396]

Originally Posted by delta

Gazza Mike is correct . If you are changing the water pump good old hammer and chisel will do the job .

Cheers Iain & Mike. I was tempted to try a hammer but thought that would be a no, no. Will give it a try.

If it goes wrong I might be in the market for a new engine block.

[Mike Bell]

Very frustrating, Gary- sure there's several of us on here who would gladly tackle that for you- if you lived a bit closer!!!

[Nick JM]

Originally Posted by gary396

Cheers Iain & Mike. I was tempted to try a hammer but thought that would be a no, no. Will give it a try.

If it goes wrong I might be in the market for a new engine block.

Might be able to help you if it all goes Pete Tong and you need a new block...however Mike has a point. Same thing happened to me when I was using my 'B as an all year road car about 30 years ago. Nothing worked so I grasped the nettle of life and gave it a clout with an 'ammer . It did work, but not without the same frustrations and concerns you have voiced.

My advice is to have a couple of pints to calm the nerves then give it a go

Bauble, I'll give you a inner for the whole motor. That way everyone's a winner:

[delta]

Gazza,
Driving back up the M4 I thought I had better give you a bit more advise. Before smashing the water pump off see if you can wack the end of the bolt first a few times. I do mean wack not a tap tap. Heat would be good around the water pump where the bolt goes through.
I am worried if you smash the pump about damage to the block and also if the bolt breaks of at the block then you will have more work drilling our the remains. Please PM me with your mobile for a longer chat.

[delta]

Originally Posted by midgetman

In the cafe there? I'm coming down to run The Boy and a customer this weekend so don't eat it all! Mind you with the high winds forecast, not much chance of Father Christmas landing

Just about to try and start the Rotax Max. Seemed to be plenty of food. Wish they would not leave those Welsh cakes on the counter

[grantp]

Gary,

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned a good old soak in WD40 so far.

Has it gone out of fashion? Been banned by H&S?

Heat and bash are more likely successes but a few hours (or days) of WD40 can't hurt. Assuming you have the time to spare.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by grantp

Gary,

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned a good old soak in WD40 so far.

Has it gone out of fashion? Been banned by H&S?

Heat and bash are more likely successes but a few hours (or days) of WD40 can't hurt. Assuming you have the time to spare.

I could suggest a good old soak with 'penetrating oil' but don't believe it will work in this situation, so I won't! They don't make it like they used to......

Get bolt head red hot with a proper oxy/acetylene torch- not silly can version- quench quickly with a bucket of water and then try to undo bolt..... If that doesn't work it's time for the big knocking stick!

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by delta

Just about to try and start the Rotax Max. Seemed to be plenty of food. Wish they would not leave those Welsh cakes on the counter

Of course, it never occurred to you not to buy / eat them......

I hear that more FIFA delegates have been arrested as part of the ongoing investigation into corruption. Where were they arrested? In their 'luxury hotel in Zurich'. Not a travelodge then.....

And they say there's no corruption!!!!

[bauble]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Baub! You appear to have the Rolling On The Floor Laughing smilie a line too high!

Anyway, back to the problems with your DisAstra. Unfortunately I doubt if the problems you have is down to the Crankshaft (position) sensor. As a general rule they give problems starting, once running they are usually OK. When the fault occurs does the 'check engine' lamp illuminate, and if so, what error codes are stored?
Like most people 'in the trade' I can't tell you what is wrong with your car without seeing it, but I can suggest things that might not be the problem...

Now here is a proper mechanic making sensible suggestions about a problem, while everyone else is sticking (no pun intended NIck) with the mallet method.
Oops! No reference to the Hon Peter, just a whopping great hammer and give it a clout approach.

Having said that dear old Viv has not provided any sort of solution as I do not get any 'error messages' just the usual red light when it stalls, and what is a 'check engine' lamp?

Even so I know which seems the more intelligent way forward.

Bye-the-bye Nick I have a lump 'ammer if you need one.


Bauble. The sensible one here.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

I could suggest a good old soak with 'penetrating oil' but don't believe it will work in this situation, so I won't! They don't make it like they used to......

Get bolt head red hot with a proper oxy/acetylene torch- not silly can version- quench quickly with a bucket of water and then try to undo bolt..... If that doesn't work it's time for the big knocking stick!

Likely very true. Probably need the period stuff if you can find any .....


A few years back the Saab was in for service at the dealer's and I decided to get them to change the front brake pads.

The technician attempted to undo the locking wheel nut on one of the fronts and discovered it was a rather tight fit. They were the last outfit to do anything with the wheel so their problem right? (Though they would have no way of being sure about that of course.)

He trashed the "key" for the nut so they tried their "master" key ... and promptly trashed that as well. Cue call to me (on my annual shopping skills refresher course for what I thought would be 2 or 3 hours while they did the service) to ask if would be OK drill the nut off, complete with potential for collateral damage to the wheel and the need to replace the locking nuts (or, as they said, fit a new set of nuts - non locking type implied but not inferred by me at that point.)

They then trashed several drill bits and a drill over a period of about 2 hours removing the nut. Some damage to the wheel as well from the chuck.

I cost me, iirc, about £70 for a new set of locking nuts.

The joys of alloy wheels and mixed metal contact surfaces.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Get bolt head red hot with a proper oxy/acetylene torch- ....

In the circumstances could you not just run the engine for a few minutes?

Should get hot pretty quickly I would have thought ....

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by grantp

In the circumstances could you not just run the engine for a few minutes?

Should get hot pretty quickly I would have thought ....

No Grant, need localised heat, not even temp! Had to use method described to get a thermostat housing stud out this morn- On Gilbert's MGB engine...

[gary396]

Can't do the heat thing - don't have access to that sort of equipment. I could grind the bolt head off in the hope that the pump would then come off over the remainder of the bolt but then I'd have the problem of getting that out. I'll try a bit more whacking etc but failing that I'll give someone a call. Thanks all, for the advice.

Gary (YTS Mechanic)

P.S. I only got an MGB because they're easy to work and learn on!

[GORDON STREETER]

I have to work on cars with seized up bolts all the time and as others have said heat is just about the only way that I have found that works.
I expect the bolt is probably seized up in the pump as well as the block. If it is an alloy pump then you could probably grind the pump out of the way leaving the bolt exposed but not so easy if it's a cast iron housing.
I have been working on problems like this since the early 60s and have hardly ever failed in getting over the problem,
One thing I will say is if you can get the head red hot don't cool it down as it will harden and will snap off, I will just keep heating it so that the heat will penetrate all the way up the shank, then wait until it goes off red and gently twist it both ways until it starts to move. Penetrating oil is a waste of time until it's actually starting to move IMHO !
While I'm on here waffling has anyone else been keeping up with "Project Binky" on YouTube as I have in the last 2 years, It's well worth it for those long winter evenings ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hCPODjJO7s

[grantp]

Originally Posted by gary396

P.S. I only got an MGB because they're easy to work and learn on!

Sounds like you are getting full value from it then!

[Nick JM]

[QUOTE=gary396;359522

P.S. I only got an MGB because they're easy to work and learn on! [/QUOTE]

Good point well made.

.......so f you cock it up they are also cheap to replace

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by gary396

Can't do the heat thing - don't have access to that sort of equipment. I could grind the bolt head off in the hope that the pump would then come off over the remainder of the bolt but then I'd have the problem of getting that out. I'll try a bit more whacking etc but failing that I'll give someone a call. Thanks all, for the advice.

Gary (YTS Mechanic)

P.S. I only got an MGB because they're easy to work and learn on!

Access to oxy/acet is a lot harder than it was - but if you know anyone locally with a decent MIG welder, its probably worth getting a good nut welded onto the "rounding" bolt head - the heat input will help break the corrosion seal, and you'll also have a good nut on which to apply torsion

[delta]

What's the latest Gazza ??? Any joy . I've just had biggest shunt of the year . Pitch black , pot hole , high side , bang!!! and now my head aches and mrs delta saying I got to wear a crash hat . She just might be right . Funny how couple of pints of doom bar seems to help .

[Paul D]

Gary - heat is almost certainly the answer here. I've been working on classic cars for 30 years, and rarely fail to get a bolt out, one way or the other.

If it's an alloy pump body, I would heat the pump adjacent to the bolt, not the bolt itself- the faster thermal expansion of the ali should provide a little clearance around the shank of the bolt. Releasing agent will probably prove pretty useless, as others have said, until you have it moving - once that's achieved, then soak it with fluid and work it gradually in and out until you can unscrew it fully.

If that still fails, then as Richard has said - find a bigger nut that will fit over the head of the bolt and weld it on with a MIG - the larger nut providing a better chance of unwinding it without rounding it off, but be aware that the extra leverage will make it easy to shear the bolt if it doesn't want to move.

Sometimes, if I'm really desperate, once I've got it all really hot, I'll spray it with WD40 (other fluids are available) - this can sometimes score on two counts: first, the heat helps to thin the fluid even further, to make it more searching and, second, the cold fluid contacting the hot area provides a sudden quench, which as Mike has said, can sometimes help to break away corrosion. (Disclaimer: I accept no responsibility if you blow yourself up with this technique. )

If none of the above works... you're f***ed!

[Lancsbreaker]

I should point out to fellow Tenthers that Paul's words should be taken seriously - as he has recently become a grown-up, having married his fiancee of 16 years a week or so ago.......

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

I should point out to fellow Tenthers that Paul's words should be taken seriously - as he has recently become a grown-up, having married his fiancee of 16 years a week or so ago.......

Congratulations Paul and Mrs D! Nice to see that you didn't rush into it......

Listening to the discussion on getting kids into a local school on Beeb, it reminded me that a few years ago my Niece and Hubby set up home on a new estate in a modern town in Bucks, chosen as they could see the local primary school from the house. Wouldn't need to use a car for the school run.... But then when youngster No1 reached the age where they needed to apply for a place, couldn't get in!!! They've had to up-roots and move away to another town in Oxon. Luckily they love the place and so all good in the end, but guess many not so fortunate.....

[gary396]

Originally Posted by delta

What's the latest Gazza ??? Any joy . I've just had biggest shunt of the year . Pitch black , pot hole , high side , bang!!! and now my head aches and mrs delta saying I got to wear a crash hat . She just might be right . Funny how couple of pints of doom bar seems to help .

No progress yet Iain - my wife has been getting her monies worth out of the NHS for the last day or two so I have been taxiing to Newcastle - so limited time to work on the car. I did try to free it up with a few whacks but no joy, bolt wouldn't budge. Reading the many helpful suggestions (thanks to all) heat seems to be the best idea so looking at ways to get that to me or tow it to a garage.

Mrs Delta is right - wear a helmet! Hope you are okay.