[BTCC] BTCC 2017 Rumours & Silly Season

[Rob877]

Originally Posted by jsmee

The BTCC is widely seen as the pinnacle of British motorsport. This is the destination for most young drivers in the championship, only a minority choose to look elsewhere. Some end up moving to GTs but only out of necessity (budget etc). Look at Shedden, Neal, Plato etc - they're at the top of their game and happy to keep winning at the highest level in the UK. This is the case for most BTCC hopefuls.

Lets be honest, Tordoff's heart was hardly in it in 2016!

Agreed, don't think anyone watching BTCC this year is going to be thinking 'this is OK, but I wish Tordoff was still here'. He won't be that big a miss.

[BSchneiderFan]

There is still a worry about the number of drivers who have to bring money with them. Maybe it's reflection of modern motorsport, but if the BTCC is, as it clearly is, the pinnacle of British-based racing, why isn't there enough money for at least the top, say, ten drivers to be paid?

Also, on a tangent, the one thing I really hate about the BTCC, and I know a lot of people will disagree with this, is the contact element. That's not racing, that's bumper cars. And I hold Jason Plato and Matt Neal high up in the list of culprits for promoting that kind of racing.

[thetool]

Originally Posted by norwichsam1

Seems something is badly wrong with the BTCC's business model.

What because an endurance series which encourages wealthy amateur drivers to team up with top pros and get to drive extremely expensive cars attracts better drivers than the BTCC? Well of course it does.

For every Warren Scott in the BTCC, willing to bankroll a 4 car team with star drivers but not actually improving his personal results, there's 10 doing British GT, where they can pay a top driver a relatively moderate salary (because there's no real money to be made in motorsport anywhere anymore) and share in the race experience and potential glory.

It makes me wonder why so many of the backmarkers don't go and do that. Lines, Howard, Martin, Neate, Depper, Fletcher and the like would get a lot more for their money over in GTs.

[BLiTZ]

Originally Posted by thetool

What because an endurance series which encourages wealthy amateur drivers to team up with top pros and get to drive extremely expensive cars attracts better drivers than the BTCC? Well of course it does.

For every Warren Scott in the BTCC, willing to bankroll a 4 car team with star drivers but not actually improving his personal results, there's 10 doing British GT, where they can pay a top driver a relatively moderate salary (because there's no real money to be made in motorsport anywhere anymore) and share in the race experience and potential glory.

It makes me wonder why so many of the backmarkers don't go and do that. Lines, Howard, Martin, Neate, Depper, Fletcher and the like would get a lot more for their money over in GTs.

Because crashing an BTCC car is probably a damn sight cheaper than writing off a McLaren or Lamborghini!

[AdrianM]

Tordoff must get really fed up with all these people who reckon he didn't put up a fight. Kinda hard to fight back when the other cars just go past you in a straight line....

[Craner Curves]

I think my reasons for linking that post have been misunderstood. I was highlighting the BMW thing, not starting an anti btcc topic.

[Rob877]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

There is still a worry about the number of drivers who have to bring money with them. Maybe it's reflection of modern motorsport, but if the BTCC is, as it clearly is, the pinnacle of British-based racing, why isn't there enough money for at least the top, say, ten drivers to be paid?

Also, on a tangent, the one thing I really hate about the BTCC, and I know a lot of people will disagree with this, is the contact element. That's not racing, that's bumper cars. And I hold Jason Plato and Matt Neal high up in the list of culprits for promoting that kind of racing.

Since 2014 it's been nowhere near as bad as when Plato and Neal were basically playing stock car racing every weekend. Sure there is the odd bit of contact, that's going to happen with a 32 car grid. But Plato has proven he can race pretty cleanly over the last 3 years, in my opinion. I think this year will hopefully see another leap in driving quality now we are rid of pretty much all the drivers who struggled to keep the thing on track last season on their own, never mind in a pack of cars.

The Am driver situation in GT racing never really crossed my mind, it's a good explanation of the paid driver scenario we have in GT racing. It goes to show how good the BTCC is really, when we see the large amount of talented drivers putting in a ridiculous amount of hard work just to get on the grid, and they keep coming back year after year. BTCC must be doing something right.

[VXDave]

I believe PMR Vauxhall (amongst others) are testing at Donny today - will be interesting to see if some pictures emerge. In terms of new cars, there won't be much to see for 2017!

[thlbtcc]

Originally Posted by VXDave

I believe PMR Vauxhall (amongst others) are testing at Donny today - will be interesting to see if some pictures emerge. In terms of new cars, there won't be much to see for 2017!

Ooh, interesting if true! Haven't seen are heard a peep about the progress of the build so far. Just quietly going about their business.

[VXDave]

Originally Posted by thlbtcc

Ooh, interesting if true! Haven't seen are heard a peep about the progress of the build so far. Just quietly going about their business.

Got some info that the PMR truck has arrived at Donny... I assume probably just the one car, and it might be Senna driving as I think Chilton is out testing for SLR in Spain.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

I think my reasons for linking that post have been misunderstood. I was highlighting the BMW thing, not starting an anti btcc topic.

But in the article, Tordoff seems to use the lack of BMW interest as a reason for BTCC not being as good as GT racing.

Statement's like 'Manufacturers just aren’t interested in it' and 'BMW didn’t support it' seem to highlight that lack of manufacturer support as a bad thing.
Particularly when he later states - 'At the end of the day I’m not looking to be a factory driver. I have other things I need to dedicate my life to'

If that is the case, why criticise a lack of manufacturer support?

It all seems a bit like he wasn't really committed to BTCC, and he is giving mixed messages when he says 'lots of GT teams wanted me to give it a go' and then 'here in GTs nobody knows who I am'.

Instead of wanting a drive handed to you, the likes of Plato, Neal, Weaver, Chilton, Bartrum etc make an effort to get manufacturers involved. They also accept that a 'works' entry is not going to happen, but instead work on a commercial partnership that benefits their teams/positions.

[thlbtcc]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Instead of wanting a drive handed to you, the likes of Plato, Neal, Weaver, Chilton, Bartrum etc make an effort to get manufacturers involved. They also accept that a 'works' entry is not going to happen, but instead work on a commercial partnership that benefits their teams/positions.

Exactly. There are some real masters in the BTCC currently who have gone out there, worked hard, found the sponsorship. Look at Wix Racing, Shredded Wheat, Plato's marketing team, Team Dynamics. Big sponsors. Very much like the VASC, where if the team has sponsors/backers then it can be well funded and drivers earn a wage too. That's the model we currently have, deliberately so, knowing that the only series where many car manufacturers are involved in this day and age is Formula E.

[Rob877]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

But in the article, Tordoff seems to use the lack of BMW interest as a reason for BTCC not being as good as GT racing.

Statement's like 'Manufacturers just aren’t interested in it' and 'BMW didn’t support it' seem to highlight that lack of manufacturer support as a bad thing.
Particularly when he later states - 'At the end of the day I’m not looking to be a factory driver. I have other things I need to dedicate my life to'

If that is the case, why criticise a lack of manufacturer support?

It all seems a bit like he wasn't really committed to BTCC, and he is giving mixed messages when he says 'lots of GT teams wanted me to give it a go' and then 'here in GTs nobody knows who I am'.

Instead of wanting a drive handed to you, the likes of Plato, Neal, Weaver, Chilton, Bartrum etc make an effort to get manufacturers involved. They also accept that a 'works' entry is not going to happen, but instead work on a commercial partnership that benefits their teams/positions.

I guess Tordoff has been in the envious position of his family business being able to provide the finance for his racing, which is great. But the flipside of that is it may feel like it's a large amount of your personal funds going in to your racing.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Rob877

I guess Tordoff has been in the envious position of his family business being able to provide the finance for his racing, which is great. But the flipside of that is it may feel like it's a large amount of your personal funds going in to your racing.

He described the situation as 'having to keep bringing money'. Whether it is his own money, his families, or from outsiders - if you take a look up and down the grid everyone is having to bring money to race in BTCC. If you take a look at the rendering of his GT car, It looks like he's to bring the money to Barwell. It definitely doesn't look like a manufacturer backed entry...

[VXDave]

False alarm about the Vauxhall's I'm afraid - just the Polo cup cars at Donny today from PMR. Apparently the cars aren't ready yet.

[ATF]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

He described the situation as 'having to keep bringing money'. Whether it is his own money, his families, or from outsiders - if you take a look up and down the grid everyone is having to bring money to race in BTCC. If you take a look at the rendering of his GT car, It looks like he's to bring the money to Barwell.

I thought the same - he's bringing in the sponsorship money regardless, it's just a different championship to compete in.

[PeterY]

I can see exactly where Tordoff is coming from with his comment.
You can be a front running driver year after year in BTCC and you still have to bring a full budget whether that is via personal money or sponsors (Plato, Turkington etc.)but it is incredible hard work raising the level of budget needed.

In GTs if you prove yourself there is a chance to get offered a reduced free or even paid drive alongside a gentleman driver. I would think in GTs this year Tordoff will be putting on a 50% share of budget as it is first year and he is unproven but this is probably about 50%(or less) of the budget required to run in a BTCC car at the front of the field.

The cars whichever way you look at it are better to drive more exciting, faster, more time in the car for the money and there is a lot more places to go and race all over the world as a driver (and team owner) to me GTs is where i want to be.
I enjoy watching the BTCC and i think the grid this year looks great but i have a lot f respect for someone like tordoff that wants to race but looks elsewhere to make a career out of it.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by PeterY

You can be a front running driver year after year in BTCC and you still have to bring a full budget whether that is via personal money or sponsors (Plato, Turkington etc.)but it is incredible hard work raising the level of budget needed.

In GTs if you prove yourself there is a chance to get offered a reduced free or even paid drive alongside a gentleman driver.

If that is his aim - to prove that he is good enough to not have to provide a budget to drive - then fair enough, full credit to him.
I don't see why a criticism of BTCC's lack of manufacturer support is required though, when he is moving to a championship that is based on customer cars.

[ATF]

Originally Posted by PeterY

I can see exactly where Tordoff is coming from with his comment.
You can be a front running driver year after year in BTCC and you still have to bring a full budget whether that is via personal money or sponsors (Plato, Turkington etc.)but it is incredible hard work raising the level of budget needed.

In GTs if you prove yourself there is a chance to get offered a reduced free or even paid drive alongside a gentleman driver. I would think in GTs this year Tordoff will be putting on a 50% share of budget as it is first year and he is unproven but this is probably about 50%(or less) of the budget required to run in a BTCC car at the front of the field.

The cars whichever way you look at it are better to drive more exciting, faster, more time in the car for the money and there is a lot more places to go and race all over the world as a driver (and team owner) to me GTs is where i want to be.
I enjoy watching the BTCC and i think the grid this year looks great but i have a lot f respect for someone like tordoff that wants to race but looks elsewhere to make a career out of it.

Good explanation and fair play to Sam. Personally, I prefer short sprint-type races myself, rather than endurance racing, but each to their own.

I can fully understand the frustrations of the year-after-year battle to raise the budget required for BTCC so of course, being a professional, paid racing driver certainly must appeal.

[thlbtcc]

Funny we should be talking about manufacturer backing....

https://twitter.com/BMW_UK/status/834787167276777472

[luckn002]

Originally Posted by thlbtcc

Funny we should be talking about manufacturer backing....

https://twitter.com/BMW_UK/status/834787167276777472

More importantly, this is the title of the video it links to:

"LIVE: Introducing the 2017 BTCC Team BMW 125i M Sport"

"Team BMW" - strong hint towards manufacturer backing!

[ATF]

Interesting...

Join us live for the unveiling of this year’s Team BMW car, the new BMW 125i M Sport, run by West Surrey Racing. This year’s BTCC team drivers, Colin Turkington, Andrew Jordan & Rob Collard will join us for a unique reveal of the new 2017 car and a live question and answer session. Be the first to see it for yourself, this Friday at 2.30pm.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I don't see why a criticism of BTCC's lack of manufacturer support is required though

I didn't read it as a criticism, he is simple saying how things are.

[thlbtcc]

Originally Posted by luckn002

More importantly, this is the title of the video it links to:

"LIVE: Introducing the 2017 BTCC Team BMW 125i M Sport"

"Team BMW" - strong hint towards manufacturer backing!

Very promising indeed.

[Rob877]

Originally Posted by thlbtcc

Very promising indeed.

Would link in with Dick Bennett talking about all 3 cars being in the same livery for next year too.