Time to drop the "williams is rubbish" belief. - Page 2

Mr V · 23 Jun 2002, 13:54 (Ref:319554)

The Williams definatly isn't anywhere near the Ferrari's in race trim, and todays demonstration drive by both Ferrari drivers proves that! Williams should now be worried about the McLarens!

freud · 23 Jun 2002, 13:56 (Ref:319557)

Time to accept the "z2252314 is rubbish" belief.

Valve Bounce · 24 Jun 2002, 04:51 (Ref:320124)

Quote:

Originally posted by f1manoz
The Williams is a faster car.......

...........than the ?????????????

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]

f1manoz · 24 Jun 2002, 08:18 (Ref:320188)

VB, I should have also put 'arguably' in there too!

IMO in outright pace, grunt and horsepower, the BMW-Williams does have the edge on the Ferrari. But even then it's only a small advantage.

However, the Nurburgring proved that horsepower isn't everything.

Rambo · 24 Jun 2002, 15:19 (Ref:320470)

Faster? Relative, isn't it? CART bills itself as the fastest open-wheel racing in the world. That's true on the ovals, but not on road or street circuits.

The Williams was demonstratably faster last year on the ultra-high speed circuits (Hockenheim, Monza etc) but on the 'handling' circuits Ferrari had the edge. The Ferrari (and it seems the McLaren) have a better balanced car than Williams.

Even so, the differences seem quite slight. And, it must be said, MS managed to regularly beat the McLarens even when it was universally accepted they had a superior car.

freud · 25 Jun 2002, 07:05 (Ref:320984)

Quote:

Originally posted by Rambo

Even so, the differences seem quite slight.

f1manoz · 25 Jun 2002, 08:52 (Ref:321064)

What does help Ferrari is that Bridgestone are basically providing tyres completely suited to the Ferrari. Michelin are having to cope with providing tyres for two top teams in Williams and McLaren, which has been proven to be far more difficult for the French tyre giant.

Valve Bounce · 25 Jun 2002, 09:18 (Ref:321086)

Quote:

Originally posted by f1manoz
VB, I should have also put 'arguably' in there too!

IMO in outright pace, grunt and horsepower, the BMW-Williams does have the edge on the Ferrari. But even then it's only a small advantage.

However, the Nurburgring proved that horsepower isn't everything.

Faster : NO
Horsepower: NO

The way the Williams was going, it wasn't even faster than Renault. Ferrari was like history - LONG GONE

Let's not embarrass ourselves here this week.

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]

Rambo · 25 Jun 2002, 12:09 (Ref:321201)

Quote:

Originally posted by f1manoz
What does help Ferrari is that Bridgestone are basically providing tyres completely suited to the Ferrari. Michelin are having to cope with providing tyres for two top teams in Williams and McLaren, which has been proven to be far more difficult for the French tyre giant.

Last year Michelin seemed to be making a tyre designed entirely for the Williams.

Sauce for the goose...

f1manoz · 25 Jun 2002, 13:57 (Ref:321271)

Rambo, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. If Ferrari have that sort of advantage, more power to them. Bridgestone opted to help out Ferrari with a close alliance, fair enough, and they've also shown to be fair in tyre choice to their other customers.

Mr V · 25 Jun 2002, 15:44 (Ref:321327)

I know this topic has been raised before, but the best thing would be for Goodyear (for example) to come back in and provide McLaren with tyres, Michelin stay with Williams and Bridgestone still supplying Ferrari, with each tyre manufacturer having one "lead" team to concentrate on, we'd start seeing even better racing with tyres that would last better due to the fact that they would be idealy suited to each (lead) team.

Sato san · 25 Jun 2002, 15:56 (Ref:321338)

I agree , F1 has changed now to the point that all the top teams need thier own individual tyre partners to work closely with.

Mr V · 25 Jun 2002, 16:20 (Ref:321353)

Quote:

Originally posted by Sato san
I agree , F1 has changed now to the point that all the top teams need thier own individual tyre partners to work closely with.

i think that soon enough there will be 5 top teams, Ferrari, Williams, McLaren, Renault and Toyota, maybe McLaren could court Goodyear, Renault go for Pirelli and Toyota maybe go for someone like Yokohama!

Wrex · 25 Jun 2002, 22:34 (Ref:321649)

Mr v, thats a pipe dream - but would'nt it be wonderful

Mr V · 26 Jun 2002, 00:44 (Ref:321707)

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex
Mr v, thats a pipe dream - but would'nt it be wonderful

I agree that it is a bit of a dream, but is it beyond the realms of all possibility? after all, there are more manufacturers in f1 than at anytime before! I'm sure that we'd never see as many as five tyre makers in f1, but, hopefully just one more would be great! Didn't Goodyear talk to McLaren a season or two ago?

p.s....Back to fantasy land, yes it would be wonderful!

Andrew2001 · 26 Jun 2002, 00:51 (Ref:321709)

Hell yeh Mr V, Im likin it alot!!

I think Michelin should give McLaren what they need more than Williams its clear that hte MP4/17 chassis IS better than the Williams, but now the engine is starting to get up there we are seeing competitive McLarens again.

I'd be keen on seeing GoodYear Back into the fray though.

Williams aren't rubbish, I hate it when these top teams like Williams and McLaren get rubbished just because of an uncompetitive car at a given race. Damn it, the Williams and McLaren teams are better than Ferrari in my book, and are the top 2 in F1, take your pick.
They don't have the best car right now but thats not what I am saying.

Jukebox · 26 Jun 2002, 03:47 (Ref:321752)

Quote:

Originally posted by Andrew2001
Damn it, the Williams and McLaren teams are better than Ferrari in my book, and are the top 2 in F1, take your pick.
They don't have the best car right now but thats not what I am saying.

How come the best team in your book dosen't have the best car?

The best should have the best chassis, engine, staff and facilities if they are the best

Valve Bounce · 26 Jun 2002, 04:52 (Ref:321763)

Well, we could have Pirelli supplying Ferrari, Bridgestone supplying Toyota, Michelin supplying Renault, Dunlop supplying Williams, and Goodyear supplying McLaren. very interesting theory.

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]

freud · 26 Jun 2002, 05:22 (Ref:321774)

Quote:

Originally posted by Valve Bounce

Faster : NO
Horsepower: NO

The way the Williams was going, it wasn't even faster than Renault. Ferrari was like history - LONG GONE

Let's not embarrass ourselves here this week.

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]

Yeah its time to drop the rubbish that Williams has more horsepower than Ferrari...

Valve Bounce · 26 Jun 2002, 05:31 (Ref:321777)

I reckon Ferrari started that rumour in the first place

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]

Rambo · 27 Jun 2002, 08:18 (Ref:322698)

Quote:

Originally posted by freud

Yeah its time to drop the rubbish that Williams has more horsepower than Ferrari...

They certainly did last year, but the engine was close to top performance (witness the number of blowups). The ferrari plant is obviously more robust and as far as I can see is now at the level Williams were at last year. They, on the other hand, don't seem to have been able to squeeze much (if any) more power out this year without the machine going pop.

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