V10 crankshaft arrangement/angle?

[chernaudi]

I know that a V12 usually used a 120 degree crank, and V8's use a flat(180 deg) or crossplane(90 deg) crank. Is a V10 crank a hybird of these concepts, or is it completely unique? And is this depandant on the cylinder angle(72 or 90 deg, though the Peugeot 905 ran a 80 deg V10)?

[knighty]

from memory, you can run a V10 crank in two formats, shared big end pin - or split big-end pin........the VW Toureg 5.0 V10 diesel is a good example of a split pin crank - whereby each big end journal is slightly offset in an attempt to achieve perfect engine balance due to equal cylinder firing......in a race motor this is generally not done.......you go for a simple shared pin design that is easier to machine & grind and you generally live with the slight out of balance due to slightly offset cylinder firing.......the only race V type engine I have ever seen with a split pin crank was the AER 90degree V6 used in the BTCC MG.........Mario Thyssen (BMW F1) recently said he would be very surprised if anyone in F1 was running a split pin crank......the R10 has a shared pin crank, and if I had to put money on it, so do Judd and Peugeot - but i'm guessing.

[chernaudi]

I'm sorry to point this out, but the R10 uses a V12.

[knighty]

please point out to me in my post above where where I refer to the R10 having a V10?.........nope I cant find it either .........I was talking generally about V-type crank shafts - as per your general post about V-type crankshafts whereby you quoted V12, V10 and V8.

[chernaudi]

I was hoping mostly for info on the angle of V10 cranks, as there are several different designs, due mostly to varing(72 and 90 deg) cylinder angles. A V8 crank is either 90 or 180 deg., and a V12 is usually 120 deg. So therotically, the V10 should maybe be somewhere in between. I've never seen a Judd, Dodge/Chrysler V10, or an Audi/Lambo V10 dissaembled, so I can't tell you anything about the crank configuration-angle or shared/split pin(and angle is the main thing that I'm looking for-is it different between cylinder angle, and crank type?).

[phoenix]

V12s are usually have the blocks in a 60 degree V, don't they? V10s are usually 72 degrees, although the Viper had a 90 degree V10, so I am sure there are others. For higher revving engines I would expect that a V10 would use a 72 degree V and a simple shared pin arrangement with a 72 degree offset between them.

[Notso Swift]

Phoenix, they are talking about crank angles not block angles.
either way the number is usually be divisible between the number of cylinders and 720 to give even firing.

That said didn't Renault persist with an odd wide angle V for their early V10, maybe 78 deg V or someting (I am sure some one will remember an I am too lazy to google it)

[chernaudi]

Renault used to run 120 deg V10's in F1 for a couple of years until the FIA placed a limit on the number of engine changes per season-and a 10 spot grid penalty for those who did change engines. But what are the common crank angles for V10s, as they seem to be the odd one out as far as this goes.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by Notso Swift

Phoenix, they are talking about crank angles not block angles.

I appreciate that, but the post before mentioned the two common V angles on V10s as well, so I was referring to that post alone. The offset of the crank pins for both 90 and 72 degree Vs is a common 72 degrees, as far as I know.

[phoenix]

Just seen that the latest Audi V10 has a 90 degree V angle and split crank pins with an 18 degree offset on the splits and 72 degrees 'main' offset - if you know what I mean

[Notso Swift]

Originally Posted by phoenix

I appreciate that, but the post before mentioned the two common V angles on V10s as well, so I was referring to that post alone. The offset of the crank pins for both 90 and 72 degree Vs is a common 72 degrees, as far as I know.

Sorry, when I read the post before yours I didn't look at the first sentence in isolation.
Thanks for the info on the Audi V10. This is what Dodge do on their truck motor as well. (most famously seen in the Viper)

[tristancliffe]

The angle of the Vee itself is important if you want to design the crank for equal firing angles. A 60° V will need slightly different crank angles to a 70° V. Of course the V config has an 'ideal' vee angle (90° on a V8 iirc), which also reduces vibrations, but racing engines frequently use larger vee angles to lower the CoG of the engine.