TGF : Too old for F1, too young to die - retirement is sweet

[Schumiforeverever]

Im not blindly defending Schumacher, but the Hungarian move against Barrichello, could have been very normal in the 80's and 90's.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Schumiforeverever

Im not blindly defending Schumacher, but the Hungarian move against Barrichello, could have been very normal in the 80's and 90's.

I think this may be a little off topic for this thread.

[Schumiforeverever]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

As opposed to Schumacher who is demonstrating that he is no greatest of all time, seven championships or not.

After taking 3 years off + a new car, at 41, its not easy even for the greatest of all time.
Schumacher has shown us enough who he really is and returning to the competition after 3 years is a sacred challenge and i personally applause him for this!

What could THE PROFESOR A.Prost do with Ferrari in 1990 and 1991?

[Fox89]

Schumacher has shown us enough who he really is and returning to the competition after 3 years is a sacred challenge and i personally applause him for this!

As did I, before he started ramming everyone who was quicker off the track. Such as Massa in Canada and Rubens in Hungary. I think there were about three times he tried to do that in Canada weren't there? I remember him petulantly ignoring blue flags earlier in the year as well.

Greatest of all time? Please. I'm not even convinced he was the greatest of his time!

[Schumiforeverever]

Originally Posted by strider

I never thought he was, but you're right, what's happening now is damaging his overall reputation as a driver and I find it quite sad.

Di Montezemolo may be ruthless, but he was right to 'retire' him at the the end of 2006.

Montezemolo????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqAmZMV3CcA
Remember Interlagos 2006.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cqt0xbGn78

[Schumiforeverever]

Originally Posted by Fox89

Greatest of all time? Please. I'm not even convinced he was the greatest of his time!

Maybe because you have forgotten what you have watched.

[Fox89]

Originally Posted by Schumiforeverever

Maybe because you have forgotten what you have watched.

He was always better than his team mate, I'll give him that. But better than Hakkinen? Tough one...

[strider]

Originally Posted by Fox89

He was always better than his team mate, I'll give him that. But better than Hakkinen? Tough one...

It's only one man's opinion, but Alan Henry ranked Mika higher in his book on the top 100 drivers.

[Fox89]

Originally Posted by strider

It's only one man's opinion, but Alan Henry ranked Mika higher in his book on the top 100 drivers.

This Alan Henry chap is obviously highly credible, entirely due to the fact that he agrees with me!

[Thundersports]

Originally Posted by Schumiforeverever

After taking 3 years off + a new car, at 41, its not easy even for the greatest of all time.
Schumacher has shown us enough who he really is and returning to the competition after 3 years is a sacred challenge and i personally applause him for this!

What could THE PROFESOR A.Prost do with Ferrari in 1990 and 1991?

Sorry I don't normally delve here but what planet are you from? Prost nearly won the Championship in "that" Ferrari, before posting on here please do some homework as there are some very knowledgeable peaple here who will add lots of interest to threads but not durge like this.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Fox89
Greatest of all time? Please. I'm not even convinced he was the greatest of his time!

Could not agree more. Certainly not even a shadow of any of the all time greats .

As for comparing him to Prost with the Ferrari, as has been said Prost nearly won in that car.... indeed he won 5 races in it in 1990. TGF cant even compete with his junior teamate, who has simply obliterated him this year. Even Schumi resorting to his well known book of dirty tricks cant help him even look reasonably competitive. Frankly he is a waste of a good opportunity for someone on the up rather some fantasy nostalgia trip to satisfy Schumacher's mid-life crisis.

[beau1]

Originally Posted by Fox89

As did I, before he started ramming everyone who was quicker off the track. Such as Massa in Canada and Rubens in Hungary. I think there were about three times he tried to do that in Canada weren't there? I remember him petulantly ignoring blue flags earlier in the year as well.

Greatest of all time? Please. I'm not even convinced he was the greatest of his time!

Not getting into the Barrichello incident...but I agree its not much different from something from the early 90s but it seems thats not allowed.
I think you need to get your eyes tested. You mean the move Massa tried around the outside right? When Schumacher was already on the racing line? On the entry to the chicane the cars go slow close to the wall that there no room for another car to be on the outside. Right, so he's just meant to jump out the way.
Even if Schumacher wasn't there Massa has cocked up his breaking in any case and would have over-shot the chicane.
The Kubica incident was even better as Schumacher once again had the racing line (after some arguably strong defence to get on it) and Kubica oppertunistically tried a move down the inside, whilst being way offline. If Schumacher hadn't skipped across the grass then there would have been an accident that would have taken them both out and it wouldn't have been his fault at all, imo.
Watch the youtube videos and calm down on the hate.
The Rubens move has been his only questionable move of the season, the other moves put equal or more reesponsibility on the other driver

Want to see people ignoring blue flags? Have a look at Damon Hill in the Arrows holding up M.S at Japan 97'. That is ignoring blue flags my friend.

[Fox89]

You mean the move Massa tried around the outside right? When Schumacher was already on the racing line?

I mean the move Massa tried around the outside where Schumacher then moved and broke Massa's front wing. Michael had already chosen his line through the corner, he then pushed out wide to get a better entry and the Ferrari was already there. I'm reviewing it on youtube now. Schumacher goes to the inside, he knows Massa is there. As far as I'm concerned that constitutes 'choosing his line'. Then once Massa starts to go to the outside, Schumacher drifts left and continues to do so in the braking zone. I will agree Massa had outbraked himself, but Schumacher was the one in the wrong. Had he left an F1 cars width of track as he should have done, Massa would have gone over the chicane and no harm done.

The Kubica one I wont argue, that was debatable. Wasn't there a 3rd that race? Against Kobayashi or one of the Force Indias? I forget.

The Rubens move has been his only questionable move of the season

Questionable!? He chose his line. Rubens went inside. Schumacher tried to push him into a concrete wall. Would it still be 'questionable' a few inches further right resulting in a life-threatening collision? If it was a rookie driver in his first race, maybe I'd let 'questionable' fly. But a 7 time world champion? I don't like coming across all cliché but that was disgraceful.

Want to see people ignoring blue flags? Have a look at Damon Hill in the Arrows holding up M.S at Japan 97'. That is ignoring blue flags my friend.

OK... so a different driver ignored blue flags 13 years ago. How is this relevant to whether Schumacher did something similar at a recent grand prix?

Watch the youtube videos and calm down on the hate.

I could say the same thing to you about calming down on the bias.

[beau1]

Originally Posted by Fox89

I mean the move Massa tried around the outside where Schumacher then moved and broke Massa's front wing. Michael had already chosen his line through the corner, he then pushed out wide to get a better entry and the Ferrari was already there. I'm reviewing it on youtube now. Schumacher goes to the inside, he knows Massa is there. As far as I'm concerned that constitutes 'choosing his line'. Then once Massa starts to go to the outside, Schumacher drifts left and continues to do so in the braking zone. I will agree Massa had outbraked himself, but Schumacher was the one in the wrong. Had he left an F1 cars width of track as he should have done, Massa would have gone over the chicane and no harm done.

The Kubica one I wont argue, that was debatable. Wasn't there a 3rd that race? Against Kobayashi or one of the Force Indias? I forget.

I do not remember a third incident. I remember something about a Force India but I think it was more of Schumacher having rubbish defense rather than being over-agressive. I think we'll have to agree to disagree over the Massa incident, I think that if Massa hadn't out-breaked himself in the first place then there would have been no harm done.
The worst thing I saw in that race was Kubica's rather dangerous cut into the pits right in front of someone, I can't remember whom but I'm surprised that didn't go without punishment.

Questionable!? He chose his line. Rubens went inside. Schumacher tried to push him into a concrete wall. Would it still be 'questionable' a few inches further right resulting in a life-threatening collision? If it was a rookie driver in his first race, maybe I'd let 'questionable' fly. But a 7 time world champion? I don't like coming across all cliché but that was disgraceful.

It certainly would have been more that questionable if there had been a crash, yes. There wasn't a crash though. I think he knew exactly what he was doing and how much room to give so there wasn't a crash. If you want to start analysing words then i'd pick a different words than 'push' because that suggests physical contact, in which with this incident there was none.
I meant questionable in the context of blame for other incidents this season thats all. It wasn't a 50/50 situation like the ones above which you attempted to blame Schumacher for just because he was involved.
Agree with the penalty, by the way (in the current context of the sport) but I still don't agree that other incidents haven't been punished
[/QUOTE]

OK... so a different driver ignored blue flags 13 years ago. How is this relevant to whether Schumacher did something similar at a recent grand prix?

I don't recall Schumacher holding any leaders up for a whole lap and then jumping out the way for his ex-team....

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Schumiforeverever

After taking 3 years off + a new car, at 41, its not easy even for the greatest of all time.
Schumacher has shown us enough who he really is and returning to the competition after 3 years is a sacred challenge and i personally applause him for this!

What could THE PROFESOR A.Prost do with Ferrari in 1990 and 1991?

He damn near won a championship in 1990. Regardless, the longer Schumacher stays, the more hits his legacy takes. At least Michael Jordan was on a team that never won a championship. Schumi inherited the WCC, coupled with the best engine in the field.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Fox89

As did I, before he started ramming everyone who was quicker off the track. Such as Massa in Canada and Rubens in Hungary. I think there were about three times he tried to do that in Canada weren't there? I remember him petulantly ignoring blue flags earlier in the year as well.

Greatest of all time? Please. I'm not even convinced he was the greatest of his time!

He was the most clever of his time. I guess that counts for something.

[Schumiforeverever]

Originally Posted by Thundersports

Sorry I don't normally delve here but what planet are you from? Prost nearly won the Championship in "that" Ferrari, before posting on here please do some homework as there are some very knowledgeable peaple here who will add lots of interest to threads but not durge like this.

It was in 1990, but Senna's dangerous move against him at Suzuka, had definitely sealed his future with Ferrari in 1991,not a single victory,plus he had been dismissed from Ferrari team.

Actually Schum is suffring from a car completely incompatible with his aggressive driving style,you can't blame the 7th world champion ,Schum and Rosberg have very different driving style.He is nearly driving a car built for Button's racing style of the last year,exactly like the Red Bull cars that are driving themselves now.

Btw, be less aggressive and more polite when you post your opinion.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by Schumiforeverever

Btw, be less aggressive and more polite when you post your opinion.

An astonishing post coming from Schumiforeverever

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Schumiforeverever

It was in 1990, but Senna's dangerous move against him at Suzuka, had definitely sealed his future with Ferrari in 1991,not a single victory,plus he had been dismissed from Ferrari team.

Actually Schum is suffring from a car completely incompatible with his aggressive driving style,you can't blame the 7th world champion ,Schum and Rosberg have very different driving style.He is nearly driving a car built for Button's racing style of the last year,exactly like the Red Bull cars that are driving themselves now.

Btw, be less aggressive and more polite when you post your opinion.

Shouldn't the "greatest of all time" have no problem adapting to a car. Senna took to Gordon Murray's low slung MP4-4 like a duck to water, and it was only after he did, that Prost got on with it as well. You'd think getting obliterated by an also ran, and also having a brand new chassis(That was supposed to fit his driving style, mind you) a quarter of the way through the year would have spurned him on, no? The opposite has actually happened, he's gotten worse as the year goes on, to the point where he's having to resort to cheating, and when a certain Brazilian comes close, attempted murder. It's pitiful.



I think that had he stayed in F1, even if it was for a midfield team, he'd have been winning races. Hell, Red Bull had a seat that opened up after 2006, he'd have been in prime position if he had taken it. But he didn't. Because he didn't want to come back. For two and a half years he was content with sitting on the sidelines, winking at the camera here or there. Now he's come back, even with his old buddy's team, the World Champion Constructor, with the best engine in the field. He was handed the keys to the castle. He just flat out isn't up to it. Nico Rosberg, while not complete toss, isn't a superstar. He was mediocre more often than not at Williams, now he's beating the black off Schumacher.(probably not the best euphemism, but I digress) He's taken to this car quite well. Had they kept the car they started out with, who knows? He might have knicked a few more podiums and maybe even a race win.

[Schumiforeverever]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

An astonishing post coming from Schumiforeverever

Calm down.

[ralf fan]

Didn't Senna get castigated (rightly) for pulling a similar move on Prost. So no it wasn't normal back then either.

[Schumiforeverever]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

Shouldn't the "greatest of all time" have no problem adapting to a car. Senna took to Gordon Murray's low slung MP4-4 like a duck to water, and it was only after he did, that Prost got on with it as well. You'd think getting obliterated by an also ran, and also having a brand new chassis(That was supposed to fit his driving style, mind you) a quarter of the way through the year would have spurned him on, no? The opposite has actually happened, he's gotten worse as the year goes on, to the point where he's having to resort to cheating, and when a certain Brazilian comes close, attempted murder. It's pitiful.



I think that had he stayed in F1, even if it was for a midfield team, he'd have been winning races. Hell, Red Bull had a seat that opened up after 2006, he'd have been in prime position if he had taken it. But he didn't. Because he didn't want to come back. For two and a half years he was content with sitting on the sidelines, winking at the camera here or there. Now he's come back, even with his old buddy's team, the World Champion Constructor, with the best engine in the field. He was handed the keys to the castle. He just flat out isn't up to it. Nico Rosberg, while not complete toss, isn't a superstar. He was mediocre more often than not at Williams, now he's beating the black off Schumacher.(probably not the best euphemism, but I digress) He's taken to this car quite well. Had they kept the car they started out with, who knows? He might have knicked a few more podiums and maybe even a race win.

Barrichello might have a suicide attitude,who knows?
The F1 is a jungle and with that move Schumi shown us that he hasn't changed,he still is the wild fighter we love.

Too many words for nothing,the guy wrote the history revolutionized the F1, beating all records and it easily could attract a lot of jealousy.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by Schumiforeverever

Calm down.

I'm quite calm, I just thought it was funny!

In fact your posts are becoming increasingly entertaining, thanks for bringing a little humour to ten-tenths

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Schumiforeverever

Barrichello might have a suicide attitude,who knows?
The F1 is a jungle and with that move Schumi shown us that he hasn't changed,he still is the wild fighter we love.

Too many words for nothing,the guy wrote the history revolutionized the F1, beating all records and it easily could attract a lot of jealousy.

He did revolutionize it. He made an art of inter-team politics and cheating.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

He did revolutionize it. He made an art of inter-team politics and cheating.

That is correct, how many other drivers have been kicked out of a world championship season, and won a championship using exactly the same trick three years before? And that's not before we get to going over the McLaren garage to punch DC, trying to park a car on the racing line to try to get a red flag, dodgy traction control and parking a car to try to block people in qualifying ...