[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[jsTrecu]

I'd like a bigger engine maybe, but I'm really curious now. Want to see what they are capable of doing with such a small engine.

[DistortedSmile]

It usually takes awhile for new LMPs to grow on me, but I quite like the Porsche already. What do you guys think it'll be called? I'm thinking 919.

[Velociraptor]

I hope it's not a 4 cylinder... In that case, I'll be cheering for the diesel(s)

[Japanese Samurai]

About 2014 engine.
Remember the initial plan for 2014 regulation by Dr. Yoshimasa Hayashi was NA 3.4 litter V6 engine.
http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...nce-11388.html

As compared with it, The optimal solution of 2014 regulations may be a 2 litter turbo engine.
Acutually, Japanese Autosport described the story that Nissan returned to Le Mans in 2015 with NRE (2 litter DI turbo/next gen Super GT engine) engine.

[gustavobamba]

If Porsche adopt the I4 2.0l turbo how much power on it? 450bhp; 500 bhp?

Wich hybrid system will they use and power figures?

[Eryk03]

I think Porsche will have some 6 boxer 3.0 l+ or V8.

[knighty]

Originally Posted by Velociraptor

I hope it's not a 4 cylinder... In that case, I'll be cheering for the diesel(s)

shame I know, but get used to it........the days of high revving "screamer" engines in motorsport which are backed by manufacturers who need to portray low C02 and fuel economy image are coming to a close, even for supercar manufacturers........I think even Toyota will soon go the downsized turbo route next year

[bentley speed 8]

Weren't there turbocharged 4 cylinders even in the Group C era?
But it may make some sense as the new Cayman is also going to have a 4 cylinder turbo engine in there

[Christian Mogami]

The easy way would go the DI 2.0L I4 Turbo but by them hiding the engine space in the first released pictures,im thinking they would go in a different direction.

Something like the F1 V6 power-unit and that would leave the door open for them joining F1 in the future.

A V6 is just a better option!

[Velociraptor]

Originally Posted by knighty

shame I know, but get used to it........the days of high revving "screamer" engines in motorsport which are backed by manufacturers who need to portray low C02 and fuel economy image are coming to a close, even for supercar manufacturers........I think even Toyota will soon go the downsized turbo route next year

I think it would be interesting to compare the consumption of a 2 liter turbo engine that produces around 450-500 hp to a, for example, NA V8 6.2 LS1 from a Corvette making 450-500 hp... I'm not sure the 4 cylinder would come on top... BTW, the new DFI 6.2 V8 makes 460 hp stock. I think just the open exhaust would get you there with the Toyota's current 3.4 V8.

[Maelochs]

The one place where the Vette engine loses out is weight. Another is space.

For a car which has to run ERS, a smaller, lighter powerplant might be the best option ovdrall, even if a big, low-revving V8 might be a little more economical.

Now, for customer cars, which won't have ERS ... Oreca-Corvettes, Oak- Vipers, HPD-Mustangs ... think fans won't like those? I doubt anyone who heard one has forgotten the Lola-Aston Martins (though those kind of revs won't be fuel-efficient----it will be more rumbling grunters than screamers, I think.).

[Velociraptor]

The Vette V8 is very small and compact and relatively light(production engine). There are ways of making it lighter(though LMP1 carry ballast anyway), from flywheel, crankshaft, hollow cams to titanium conrods, pistons... I think it would be very competitive to a 2 liter turbo engine with similar power... and... more reliable + less expensive.

[deggis]

Some people here may have not seen this study published in RCE or have forgotten it... It compares 2.8L V6 and 4L V8:

http://www.lapsim.nl/assets/pdf/Arti...014-LapSim.pdf

[chewymonster]

Turbo direct injection, where did I hear that tech before, my mind is foggy.The challenge is x amount of energy and max performance, little room for show.

[NelisB]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

Turbo direct injection, where did I hear that tech before, my mind is foggy.The challenge is x amount of energy and max performance, little room for show.

Why can't a company like Porsche make it work?

I'd expect them to bring something like a 2.5 liter v6 turbo to the track.

[chewymonster]

Originally Posted by NelisB

Why can't a company like Porsche make it work?

I'd expect them to bring something like a 2.5 liter v6 turbo to the track.

Well they would if it will work better than a 2 liter 4 cylinder but they shouldn't if it won't.

a chart showing engine efficiencies, quite relevant for 2014 rules. Turbo and direct injection is the highest performing non atkinson gasoline option.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake...el_consumption

[MJones94]

Originally Posted by deggis

Some people here may have not seen this study published in RCE or have forgotten it... It compares 2.8L V6 and 4L V8:

http://www.lapsim.nl/assets/pdf/Arti...014-LapSim.pdf

Those times are depressingly slow for Lmp1 Cars.

[Starfish Primer]

I´d like to see a Flat 6 turbo engine for historical reasons . The path for a I4 could be quite strange for me as inline engines usually are top heavier and worse for weight distribution.

[1969MGCGTdriver]

Originally Posted by bentley speed 8

Weren't there turbocharged 4 cylinders even in the Group C era?
But it may make some sense as the new Cayman is also going to have a 4 cylinder turbo engine in there

The Ford Probe GTP was a 4-banger

[deggis]

Originally Posted by MJones94

Those times are depressingly slow for Lmp1 Cars.

You may have missed something though... this study only looks at the combustion engines, so the power output of the electric engines is not included.

[Pole2Win]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Audi - well Abt - on the other hand, has no such scruples... back in 2000-2003 the TT-RS in DTM was powered by a modified BMW engine.

Didn't know this... Automatically makes it my favorite Audi.

[Pole2Win]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

So you talk about the bad fortunes on the GT front , but play up the prior success of the relatively recent RS Spyder. Explain to us again why you think Porsche is unlikely to do well at prototype racing with this new car? Maybe you meant to post this in a GT thread?

Richard

I'm not saying they won't do well. I'm saying it might take a year or two until they're able to mount a solid Le Mans challenge. Audi has a lot of ground over Porsche right now and IMO will be the likely winners in the next few years (mostly because I underrate the Toyota programme). However, the fact the regs are changing may be very helpful to Porsche and we might see a Porsche LMP winning Le Mans next year. I just don't think it's a high probability, and I'm not overly optimistic like some of the Porsche fans.

I mentioned the RSR (another poster corrected my mistakes, thanks) because it's an example of how you can't expect Porsche to walk in and blitz everyone in their first year. I'd even bet against it. But if I lost the bet, I'd be happier.

Originally Posted by Spyderman

The current 991 RSR you see racing still has the old Mezger engine. It will have a new engine based on the new GT3 road going engine for 2014.

No, that is not why Porsche scrapped the 997 based RSR. The 997 model came to the end of its production cycle, and Porsche introduced the 991. They needed to start developing what will become the new 991 RSR for customers in 2014, so 2013 is a development year.

Did not know that. Thanks for corrections. I hope it becomes successful, because the car looks pretty boss. I remember Manthey also served as "test mules" for Porsche in the FIA GT when the 997 RSR was developed.

On the 997, though, I think it could've had another year, but the updates didn't improve the car much so it was better to abandon it anyway.

[Spyderman]

You are correct in your reservations over the possibility of Porsche winning Le Mans in 2014. I agree, and have the exact same reservations. What I do think however, is that Porsche will certainly try, and if there is a company that can do it, it will certainly be Porsche.
Times have changed; Le Mans is not the same type of race it used to be. The opposition is different. Porsche is a different company run by different people. There are too many differing factors to allow us to make straight-line projections.

The RSR is a different story. As I have posted before, I don’t think that winning is Porsche’s main objective with the 2013 car. I’m sure that that a win would be more than welcome, but I think the main focus is on development.

BTW – Midweek Motorsport continued to talk about the current RSR having the new GT3 engine. As far as I know, this is not the case and I will try and send an e-mail to RLM to try and correct this.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by bentley speed 8

Weren't there turbocharged 4 cylinders even in the Group C era?
But it may make some sense as the new Cayman is also going to have a 4 cylinder turbo engine in there

4 cylinders not unheard of at all

Toyota's early C1s had 4 cylinder engines and quite a few C2s ran turbo 4s (Ford BDT, Zakspeed 4 - which I think was the one from the Probe mentioned elsewhere).

With overall automotive trend towards smaller engines I wouldn't rule out seeing someone giving it a go - and if there's a linkage to be made with a Porsche road car project, then why not?

[MJones94]

Leo Parente seems adamant that the new Porsche LMP1 will have a V8 engine. I hope this is the case but am sceptical nonetheless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dwAybSbLbo